6 man rotation

[Elster88]

I'd say Seo has earned another start.

Do you say so?

[Valadius]

I'd say he's earned himself a spot in the rotation. With regards to Bell, I want Mr. Koo and Danny Graves off this team NOW.

[Zvon]

Trachsel has already said he doesnt feel he can help the Mets from the pen. Says he isnt experienced in that aspect of pitching enuff.

So you cant take him out of his element if he's negative about it.

You have to stick with Seo as long as he keeps it up, and even allow him some breathing room to pitch an average game, or even take a loss. I doubt he can win em all.

I was thinkin Glavine should go, but the more i think about it, it has to be Zambrano to the pen.
Glavine has been much more consistant last 8 or so games out there, and nothing is gonna shake his demeaner. If he's got it to pitch, we'll get the quality start.

This opinion could change (ThkG im just a fan), cuz it just has since yesterday, but i think Zambrano goes to the pen. Ishii, when he's got his concentration level up, can pitch a fine few innings, so even keep him up and in the pen. Id have to take a look at the roster to see how to juggle it, but the pen will be crucial and it must be shored up.

[Frayed Knot]

I think that about the time Sept 1st rolls around we're going to have about a 15 man pen.

[Zvon]

Frayed Knot wrote: I think that about the time Sept 1st rolls around we're going to have about a 15 man pen.

lmao :lol:

wish we could. :wink:

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

This morning's Daily Snooze:

]Teammates found it curious, however, that Zambrano (2-3, 5.85 ERA since the All-Star break) jumped ahead of Seo on the last road trip, putting Zambrano on the identical schedule to Trachsel. One veteran suggested a Trachsel-for-Zambrano rotation swap would be applauded in the clubhouse, if only the Mets would accept whatever barbs come their way for giving up Scott Kazmir in the unpopular July 2004 trade with the Devil Rays. One Mets official said the team planned to stick with a five-man rotation. If Trachsel can't be dealt, a modified six-man rotation - in which Trachsel and Zambrano could be strategically slotted around other starters' schedules - also would seem to make sense, especially considering the Mets (62-59) have only one off-day in the next three weeks and Martinez typically benefits from an extra day of rest.

[Guest GYC]

I didn't like Zambrano when we traded him, I didn't like him in the offseason, I didn't like him when he was doing bad, I still didn't like him when he was doing good and didn't trust him and waiting for him to explode. Send him to the BP or another team.

[Zvon]

]a modified six-man rotation - in which Trachsel and Zambrano could be strategically slotted around other starters' schedules - also would seem to make sense, especially considering the Mets (62-59) have only one off-day in the next three weeks

this is interesting info. Only one off day during this run?
Yikes.
Ill be very surprised if they go to set a 6 man rotation.
But a flexible one, thats an entertaining concept.

You have to keep in mind that a starting pitcher should throw every 5th day or so to stay effective. But they could have sideline throwing fill that gap if they juggle Tashy and Zambi.

Its a novel idea, and a lil scary to try.
For the next 3 weeks, it could just work.
Theres got to be a way to take full advantage of the cards we are holding.

For me it comes back to Trachsels arm is fresh and he always goes deep into games.

[nymr83]

if Traschel wasn't exaggerating when he said it takes him 30 minutes to warm up i think the bullpen has to be out of the question.

[Zvon]

Nymr83 wrote: if Traschel wasn't exaggerating when he said it takes him 30 minutes to warm up i think the bullpen has to be out of the question.

What I get from what Trachsel is saying is that he's a starter, he intends to be a starter, and wouldnt be happy in any other role.

I suppose a manager has to take this into consideration these days.

[Zvon]

hey!
im stretchin the place out.

Im sure theres a note somewhere here as to why this has happened,lol.

[Zvon]

I dont get to keep the framed Seaver pic?
*Sob*
what a rip. :cry:

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

It's that you just hit the 41st post, otherwise known as the Sacred Seaver Post.

It was a bigger thing on the old board, when the post number for each post was a permanent thing (your 41st post would always be recognized as your 41st post), but when people notice a SSP here it still gets hailed.

We also had fun on the old board with post 666, known as the Jay Satan Post.

[Guest Edgy DC]

A belated HAIL!

[Zvon]

ScarletKnight41 wrote: It's that you just hit the 41st post, otherwise known as the Sacred Seaver Post.

hahaha.
I love it. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I have 3 brothers who are huge Met fans too.
Ive got to tell them about this place.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Bring 'em along. We've got plenty of space here.

[Elster88]

GYC wrote: I didn't like Zambrano when we traded him, I didn't like him in the offseason, I didn't like him when he was doing bad, I still didn't like him when he was doing good and didn't trust him and waiting for him to explode. Send him to the BP or another team.

Good to see you're open minded.

[Elster88]

ERA is cumulative for the whole year, up until the total, which is only the post-ASB cumulative ERA.

WHIP is each game's total WHIP, up until the total which is post-ASB WHIP.

TOM GLAVINE	POST-ASB	W	L	ERA	G	GS	CG	SHO	SV	SVO	IP	H	R	ER	HR	BB	K	WHIP
7/15	ATL	0	0	4.71	1	1	0	0	0	0	7	6	1	1	0	4	2	2.00
7/20	SD	1	0	4.62	1	1	0	0	0	0	6	6	2	2	0	1	3	1.17
7/25	@COL	0	1	4.69	1	1	0	0	0	0	6	8	5	4	0	1	2	1.50
7/30	@HOU	0	1	4.50	1	1	0	0	0	0	7	5	1	1	1	0	3	0.71
8/5	CHI	1	0	4.50	1	1	0	0	0	0	8	10	5	4	2	0	2	1.25
8/11	@SD	0	1	4.41	1	1	0	0	0	0	7	9	2	2	0	0	3	1.23
8/17	PIT	1	0	4.26	1	1	0	0	0	0	7	9	1	1	1	1	2	1.43
8/22	@ARI	1	0	4.10	1	1	0	0	0	0	8	5	1	1	0	1	5	0.75
		4	3	2.57	8	8	0	0	0	0	56	58	18	16	4	8	22	1.18

[Guest ABG]

I'm fully behind the six man concept. After Pedro and Benson, the four guys in question are interchangeable IMHO.

Give Pedro the rest--the guy hasn't hit 85 on the gun in a month.

[Elster88]

ERA is cumulative for the whole year, up until the total, which is only the post-ASB cumulative ERA.

WHIP is each game's total WHIP, up until the total which is post-ASB WHIP.

VICTOR ZAMBRANO	POST-ASB	W	L	ERA	G	GS	CG	SHO	SV	SVO	IP	H	R	ER	HR	BB	K	WHIP
7/16	ATL	0	1	3.51	1	1	0	0	0	0	7	6	2	2	0	4	6	1.43
7/22	LAN	0	1	3.86	1	1	0	0	0	0	4.2	10	6	6	1	0	1	2.38
7/27	@COL	1	0	3.78	1	1	0	0	0	0	7	5	2	2	0	3	5	1.14
8/2	MIL	0	0	4.19	1	1	0	0	0	0	1.1	7	6	6	4	0	2	6.36
8/7	CHN	1	0	4.00	1	1	0	0	0	0	8	5	1	1	0	2	1	0.88
8/12	@LAN	0	0	4.16	1	1	0	0	0	0	6	6	5	5	0	4	5	1.67
8/18	PIT	0	1	4.24	1	1	0	0	0	0	6	6	4	4	1	1	3	1.17
8/23	@ARI	1	0	4.07	1	1	0	0	0	0	8	6	1	1	0	2	3	1.00
		3	3	5.06	8	8	0	0	0	0	48	51	27	27	6	16	26	1.40

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Toss out his worst outing and that ERA drops by more than a run, to 4.04

[Elster88]

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/24/sports/baseball/24pitch.html[/url]
You need an NY Times online account to access this, but they are free. I can post the whole article if someone wants, but this is the part I found quotable.

]In fact, with the return of the right-hander Steve Trachsel from the disabled list, the Mets have so much pitching that they have reconfigured the rotation to include Trachsel, who is scheduled to start Friday night in San Francisco, bumping the scheduled starter, Benson, to Sunday. As for Zambrano, who started Tuesday and was scheduled to pitch Sunday, Manager Willie Randolph indicated that the Mets would not use a six-man rotation. So by the time the team returns to Shea Stadium next Tuesday to begin a three-game series against Philadelphia, the Mets will have decided on a five-man staff. For the moment, it looks as if Zambrano is the odd man out. Randolph said before Tuesday's game that he wanted to wait and see how Zambrano pitched before guaranteeing him another chance. This was nothing new. Last week Randolph did not give Zambrano a hearty endorsement but said that Zambrano would still pitch Tuesday. "We'll see what happens," Randolph said.

[HahnSolo]

That's probably the best decision for Willie at this point. It's crazy to commit to Trachsel for the rest of the season and take Zambrano from the rotation until they see something out of Trax at this level.
So if Trachsel has a good start, it's bad times for Zambrano.

[Guest Rotblatt]

Zambrano started his MLB career as a reliever--and did quite well there. Then he started to suck.

Relief Innings & Relief Stats by Year

2001
51.1 IP, 3.16 ERA, 1.09 WHIP, 58 K, 18 BB, 6 HR

2002
49.2 IP, 7.21 ERA, 1.71 WHIP, 31 K, 35 BB, 8 HR

2003
10.2 IP, 3.72 ERA, 1.31 WHIP, 4 K, 4 BB, 1 HR

2004
1 IP, 0 ERA, 1.00 WHIP, 1 K, 1 BB

Total
4.96 ERA, 1.41 WHIP, 7.64 K/9, 1.62 K/BB, 1.22 HR/9

If he reproduced that line, he'd be a decent long man, but I'd expect fewer strikeouts and probably fewer runs given up now.

My main point is that Victor's relieved in the recent past and at one time was pretty effective in that spot. He DOES have filthy stuff, so why not try him out? If his problem is staying focused, won't having to stay focused for only an inning or two be easier on him?

The only problem is that he gets creamed in his first 15 pitches to the tune of a .926 OPS, compared to a .722 overall. But maybe that's a fluke or Rick can help him out . . .

Anyway, if Trachs is healthy and can be as effective as usual, I'd rather see him starting over Zambrano. Petey, Benson & Seo are untouchable, IMO, and Glavine would probably be more useless than Trachs out of the pen.

I still favor a more permanent 6-man rotation, but if one has to go to the pen, I think it should be Victor.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

I think Z could go to the bullpen but things could turn ugly the moment he's ineffective there and that should concern the Mets only because they can control VZ cheaply for longer than they're committed to Traschel.

I think a trade of Trachsel is a strong possibility. How about to the Giants for Ray Durham & a prospect?

[Guest Rotblatt]

Here's a radical idea: platoon Trachs & Zambrano based on if we're home or away. The other could be used out of the pen. As a flyball pitcher, Trachs does much better at Shea (3.06 ERA in 04, 3.97 in 03, 3.31 in 02 & 4.00 in 01). 2003 is the only year his Home ERA was worse than his Away ERA.

As for Zambrano, for whatever reason, he's sucked at Shea this year--4.97 ERA, 1.53 WHIP & SEVEN of his 11 homers came there. Away: 3.23 ERA, 1.31 WHIP.

It's wacky and likely would throw both of them off their games, but I suppose stranger things have happened. . .

[seawolf17]

You need to get over this Ray Durham obsession. The guy's going to be 34 years old in December, can't run any more, hasn't played a full season since 2001 with the White Sox, and makes over $7 million.

No thanks.

[Willets Point]

Johnny Dickshot wrote: How about to the Giants for Ray Durham & a prospect?

Tenacity of a pitbull has this one.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

He's the anti-Cairo!

[seawolf17]

Hey, nobody around here is pro-Cairo... we're all anti-Cairo.