Not Just Viagra ...

[Guest SwitchHitter]

Everyone's a suspect in the sense of I-can't-tell-by-looking-and-I-know-some-are-doing-them sense, but that's not the same as suspecting everyone. It's a subtle distinction that some folks can't be bothered to make. I'm pretty sure my team's light-hitting SS isn't 'roiding, for example, but I can't be definitely certain. And some folks are more suspect than others. There's a story goes 'round the 'net about my team's regular 3B. Some folks believe it and some folks don't, but it's a good story, in that it's coherent and internally consistent.

[MFS62]

From what I've been hearing from callers on WFAN and ESPN radio who claim to be Lawyers, the burden of proof rests on the ability of the court (Congress?) to prove that he had taken steroids prior to have given that testimony. Given whay I;ve read about how long steroids remain in the body, the test results announced to day would have meant that any steroids he took would have been after he gave that testimony.

(Back to the thread title) Maybe his performance anxiety extended beyond the bedroom.

Later

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Palmeiro suspended 10 days by MLB
Orioles slugger denies steroid use, begins suspension
By Gary Washburn / MLB.com

BALTIMORE -- Orioles first baseman Rafael Palmeiro was suspended Monday for 10 days by Major League Baseball for violating its Joint Drug Prevention and Treatment Program and began serving the suspension immediately.
Palmeiro, 40, is the highest-profile player to test positive under the current policy adopted earlier this year. He reached the 3,000-hit plateau on July 15, becoming the fourth player in history to accumulate 3,000 hits and 500 home runs. He has 569 career homers and has been considered a strong candidate for induction into baseball's Hall of Fame after he retires.

He became the fourth player in Major League history to amass 3,000 hits and 500 home runs, joining Hank Aaron, Eddie Murray and Willie Mays.

On March 17, Palmeiro vehemently denied in front of a House Subcommittee in Washington, D.C., that he used any performance-enhancing drugs. Palmeiro, along with teammate Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire and Jose Canseco, were called to testify after Canseco wrote in his book: "Juiced: Wild Times, Rampant 'Roids, Smash Hits, and How Baseball Got Big" that he injected Palmeiro and McGwire with steroids while he was their teammate.

Palmeiro learned of the oncoming suspension recently and appealed it through the Players Association, but the Major League Baseball Arbitration Panel denied his appeal.

"I told the truth, and today I am telling the truth again that I did not do this intentionally or knowingly," he said in a conference call. "I hope the fans understand that I worked very hard over a long 20-year career. I put in a lot of time and a lot of effort in my career. I made a mistake and I am facing it. I hope people learn from my mistake and I hope the fans forgive me.

"I went in front of Congress and I was honest with Congress. There's no absolute reason for me to do anything at this stage of my career. There's nothing for me to gain and everything for me to lose. I knew I was approaching 3,000 hits. I was not about to put everything on the line, my reputation and everything that I've worked for so hard in my life to do anything like this. It just makes no sense."

Palmeiro and the Orioles released a statement before the conference call.

"At the outset, let me say that under the rules of the basic agreement and the order of the independent arbitrator, there is an order of confidentiality governing the specifics of this case," Palmeiro wrote. "I will attempt to state as much as I can and be as forthright as possible, but there will be issues I can't address based on orders imposed on me by the basic agreement and the arbitration process. I am here to make it very clear that I have never intentionally used steroids. Never. Ever. Period.

"When I found out that I failed a test under the new drug policy, I filed a grievance and challenged the suspension on the basis that I have never intentionally taken a banned substance. Ultimately, although I never intentionally put a banned substance into my body -- the independent arbitrator ruled that I had to be suspended under the terms of the program."

Palmeiro said he does not have an explanation for the positive test.

"I am sure you will ask how I tested positive for a banned substance. As I look back, I don't have a specific answer to give. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to explain to the arbitrator how the banned substance entered my body. The arbitrator did not find that I used a banned substance intentionally -- in fact, he said he found my testimony to be compelling -- but he ruled that I could not meet the heavy burden imposed on players who test positive under the new drug policy."

Palmeiro said he will accept his suspension.

"I want to apologize to MLB, the Baltimore Orioles organization, my teammates, and most of all, my fans. Given my role with the No Tolerance Committee and my relationships with Congress, I feel the need to communicate a serious message to my fellow players and to kids everywhere. All of us have to be responsible and exercise extreme care in what we put in our body. I hope that all MLB players and kids will learn from what has happened to me. I have never intentionally used a banned substance, but I unfortunately wasn't careful enough."

Orioles owner Peter Angelos offered his support to Palmeiro in a statement.

"I am truly saddened by today's events," Angelos said. "I have known Rafael Palmeiro for many years. He is a fine person, a great player and a true asset to his community. I know from personal experience that his accomplishments are due to hard work and his dedication to the game.

"I know that Rafael will accept the penalty under Baseball's important Drug Policy and that he will return to be a productive member of the Orioles."

Vice president Mike Flanagan also issued a statement, saying the club will miss Palmeiro.

"I am obviously disappointed to hear the news of this suspension," Flanagan said. "Raffy has been a friend of mine for many years. He is one of the most dedicated and hard-working players in baseball. I know he would not violate the rules intentionally. I look forward to his return. We will surely miss him and his contribution to the club."

Palmeiro said players and kids need to know the risks of being unaware of what substances they take.

"You just have to be careful with what you take," he said. "You have to make sure you see a doctor. You have to make sure you are taking supplements from a reputable source and be very careful with what you take. It happened to me and it can happen to anyone."

Palmeiro said he put in a call to Sen. Tom Davis (R-Va.) and will attempt to reach Congressman Henry Waxman (D-Ca.), who were both members of the Subcommittee and were working with Palmeiro on a no-tolerance drug program in baseball.

Because of the confidentiality agreement with MLB, Palmeiro could not reveal when he tested positive or filed the appeal.

"I can't talk about when I learned about it but I can talk about that, yes, it is an embarrassing situation," he said. "It's very unfortunate this had to happen to me, especially this year thinking it was going to be my last year and knowing I was going to get to 3,000 hits."

Meanwhile, Palmeiro's legacy is now in question. He said he realizes his numbers are now under scrutiny and there could potentially be a cloud over his career and his chances for the Hall of Fame.

"That's really not for me to determine," he said. "I hope that people look at my whole career and appreciate that I've given everything that I've got. I respect the game. I respect my opponents. I respect the players that came before me. I respect the Hall of Fame. If they think I'm worthy enough, I would be very honored. If they don't I gave it all that I had for this game."

Gary Washburn is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

You know, I can't tell which makes me madder: this kind of self-serving, confused (and confusing) cockamanie apology, or whole Bonds/Sheffield brand of "I-din't-do-nuthin, them-that-say-I-did-lie, and-you-ain't-man-enough-to-judge-me-anyway" arrogance.

What say you? Phony b.s. apology, or Innocent-til-proven-guilty-490-times thuggery? Which would you rather hear?

[Guest SwitchHitter]

What if, say, Viagra use, results in a positive test? It's possible, though unlikely, that he's on the level.

[metsmarathon]

i'd be surprised if the players were stricly forbidden from disclosing what they took that got them to register a "false" positive...

if i were palmiero, and i were not juicing, would submit whatever the hell i think i took that merited me a positive hit, and submit it to any testing agency i could identify, and disclose the results of the seemingly legal and aboveboard product that sullied my good name.

if i were not juicing, that is...

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

SwitchHitter wrote: What if, say, Viagra use, results in a positive test? It's possible, though unlikely, that he's on the level.

So he's apologizing to Baltimore fans about being falsely accused of taking something he's never touched in his life? Please.

[MFS62]

Switch,
One of the radio "expert" callers addressed that , too.
The person said that Viagra does not produce a steroid positive test result.

I believe Raffy when he asks (I papaphrase) "Why would I be stupid enout to take something illegal, considering my statement to congress, I know thay're testing, and all I have to lose?".

But I can see how it can happen. If he got an insect bite or poison ivy and put an over the counter Cortisone cream on it to stop the itching, I believe it could produce a positive test result. It could be something as innocent as that.

Later

[Guest Rotblatt]

BP answers some questions.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4287

[Guest 86-Dreamer]

thanks for link - that was very informative.

Apologies if this has been asked and answered before, but does anyone know if disabled players are subject to testing as well? It seems obvious that it should include everyone, but you never know what MLB and the PA will negotiate. Given that the Palmeiro announcement coincided with Bonds' disclosure that he will sit out the rest of the year, I imagine there are plenty of people alleging that he is sitting out in order to avoid testing.

[seawolf17]

I think Bonds has been tested; I remember a story to that effect a few months ago. Everyone in the union is a part of the random testing, I'd think. I don't think anyone's insinuated that Bonds has avoided testing with this injury.

[Guest 86-Dreamer]

thanks seawolf. I have not heard anyone in media say that Bonds' has avoided testing via his injury, but the doorman in my office building made the allegation when I chatted with him this morning, and while I strongly believed he was wrong, I did not have the facts to dispute his claim.

[Guest silverdsl]

It might not have come up in the media but it seems to be a widely held belief among fans that Bonds' isn't really seriously injured and he's just sitting out the season to avoid having to be tested. Personally, I think that's unlikely because as noted he's probably being tested anyway but besides that at his age he can't really risk sitting out a season since it will be harder to pick up where he left off than for a younger player.

Forgive me if this was mentioned in this thread previously and I missed it but apparently it's being reported that Palmeiro actually tested positive way back in May but the process of filing a grievance and going through arbitration prevented the positive test results from being released sooner. Maybe Palmeiro is the only player in that situation but it does make one wonder if MLB and the players themselves know about other positive drug tests and we don't yet know because they are also going through a drawn out arbitration.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well, the conspiracy theory would hold that Bonds' status, and the potential crippling effect taking him down would have on baseball, led to a negotiated agreement that he would sit out a season --- as an effective suspension --- voluntarily, based on the cover story of his choice. MLB would then spare him a public outing.

Such a story has been floated about Michael Jordan's initial retirement for years.

What we do know now is that MLB is not allowing the suspensions to be served without explaining why, as initially suspected in some quarters. Instead, the explanaition is just vague enough to allow the player moral wiggle room.

[Frayed Knot]

Wouldn't it be funny (sort of) if he needed the Viagra because of the steroids?

]But I can see how it can happen. If he got an insect bite or poison ivy and put an over the counter Cortisone cream on it to stop the itching, I believe it could produce a positive test result. It could be something as innocent as that.

Not bloody likely (as they'd say in merry ol England).
As mentioned in that BP link - and also by our resident medical guy 'Original JB' when I asked him about this very thing at lunch last March - the MLB list of banned substances is very narrow and there's a considerable difference between prescribed cortisone and performance steroids. In other words, it's virtually impossible to get them mixed up.



Palmiero's story du jour - that he took something but didn't realize that it contained something illegal - is certainly possible. If true it's still his responsibility and shouldn't keep him from the suspension/fine penalty, but it would help to label him and somewhat careless and dense as opposed to a hardcore cheater and liar.




Bonds was tested earlier in the year - or so it's been reported. I've heard lots of speculation (all of it uninformed) that he's sitting out to mask his continued use and that his announcement that he'll likely miss the season is somehow connected to the Palmeiro flap. Those angles don't make sense or hold water.

[Guest ABG]

Edgy DC wrote: Well, the conspiracy theory would hold that Bonds' status, and the potential crippling effect taking him down would have on baseball, led to a negotiated agreement that he would sit out a season --- as an effective suspension --- voluntarily, based on the cover story of his choice. MLB would then spare him a public outing. Such a story has been floated about Michael Jordan's initial retirement for years. What we do know now is that MLB is not allowing the suspensions to be served without explaining why, as initially suspected in some quarters. Instead, the explanaition is just vague enough to allow the player moral wiggle room.

Well yeah, 'cept under that particular conspiracy theory the Giants are still on the hook for the $18 mill or so they are paying him (and can't exactly afford to throw away) whereas the Bulls got off cheap.

[Guest Edgy DC]

True enough.

I'm not really giving much credence to either theory. If Bonds is part of conspiracy theory, it probably is contained within his person.

[seawolf17]

="Frayed Knot"]Palmiero's story du jour - that he took something but didn't realize that it contained something illegal - is certainly possible. If true it's still his responsibility and shouldn't keep him from the suspension/fine penalty, but it would help to label him and somewhat careless and dense as opposed to a hardcore cheater and liar.

I'm still going with hardcore cheater and liar.

[Guest ABG]

I find it believable--which isn't to say I believe--that Palmeiro didn't knowingly take an illegal substance. However, it'd be nice to see him take some responsibility.

I might ask my financial advisor to invest in a low-risk mutual fund, but if one of the stocks in that mutual fund tanks, it's still my money.

[Guest silverdsl]

ABG wrote: I find it believable--which isn't to say I believe--that Palmeiro didn't knowingly take an illegal substance. However, it'd be nice to see him take some responsibility.

It was said in one of the many articles that I read of all players Palmeiro's excuse about taking it unknowingly in a suppliment is ridiculous because he was on Congress's "No Tolerance" committee which has been meeting since March to discuss these issues. Just met on July 7th in fact. So of all players Palmeiro should be well-versed in why it's important to pay attention to all the ingridients of what he puts into his body.

Also, just to clarify what I said above about the positive drug test coming in May that's apparently what Buster Olney has said a few times on ESPN radio but WEEI supossedly is saying that they heard the positive test came in early July. So I'm not sure which is correct.

[metirish]

another one bites the dust...

Another Suspension
A day after Rafael Palmeiro was busted, Mariners pitcher Ryan Franklin will also be suspended 10 days for testing positive for a banned substance, reports Jerry Crasnick.

[Willets Point]

Q: What do Rafael Palmeiro and Karl Rove have in common?





A: President Bush will stand by them regardless of the evidence of their wrongdoing.

]President Bush, the owner of the Texas Rangers when Palmeiro played for that the team, told reporters Monday that he believes him. "Rafael Palmeiro is a friend. He testified in public and I believe him," Bush said in an interview with the Knight Ridder news service. "He's the kind of person that's going to stand up in front of the klieg lights and say he didn't use steroids, and I believe him. Still do."

Article

[Guest ABG]

I hear Bush is going to appoint him HHS Secretary.

[MFS62]

Nah, he only went to Florida State (not the U of Texas). Raffy gets to be head of the NIH.

Later

[Sandgnat]

I've got to believe at this point that there is some over-the-counter supplement that these guys are taking that has hidden anabolic steroids in it, or has an ingredient that causes someone to test positive for steroids even if steroids were not actually an ingredient (think poppy seeds and weed). Its hard for me to believe that RP knowingly used steroids after his testimony and knowing there is testing and it is equally hard for me to believe that a pitcher would use steroids period.


on edit: Interestingly, half of the players suspended so far this year have been pitchers.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

If the President was to appoint Palmeiro to an agency, he might as well put his life experiences to good use and make him Director of the DEA.

[metirish]

From the NY Times....

]By LEE JENKINS Published: August 3, 2005 The positive drug test that has left Rafael Palmeiro's legacy in doubt involved the potent anabolic steroid stanozolol, a person in baseball with direct knowledge of the sport's drug-testing program said yesterday. Stanozolol, known by its brand name, Winstrol, was most notably linked to the Olympic sprinter Ben Johnson of Canada, who was stripped of a gold medal in 1988 after testing positive for that steroid.

And he wants us to believe that he didn't know he was taking it.

[Frayed Knot]

Stanazolol also isn't available as an ingrediant in supplements, which kind of shoots the hell out of his "accidental" theory.

[Willets Point]

More likely, he or his supplier thought they could mask the 'roids and it didn't work. Probably a lot of panic throughout MLB these days.

[Elster88]

[url]http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050804&content_id=1157095&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb[/url]

Palmeiro Faces Perjury Probe

WASHINGTON -- Congress will investigate whether baseball slugger Rafael Palmeiro perjured himself when he told a House committee that he hadn't taken steroids.
With the player's consent, Rep. Tom Davis, R-Va., chairman of the House Government Reform Committee, and the committee's ranking Democrat, Rep. Henry Waxman of California, asked Major League Baseball on Wednesday to turn over information about the failed drug test that resulted in a 10-day suspension for Palmeiro this week.

On March 17, Palmeiro appeared before their panel and said under oath: "I have never used steroids. Period."

"As a practical matter, perjury referrals are uncommon," Davis told The Associated Press. "Prosecutions are rare. But this is a high-profile case, so I think it will get an honest look-see. I don't think anyone can avoid it.

"If we did nothing," he added, "I think we'd look like idiots. Don't you?"

The Orioles first baseman tested positive for the powerful steroid stanozolol, a person with knowledge of the sport's drug-testing program told the AP on condition of anonymity. The person did not want to be identified because the sport prohibits disclosure of test results without authorization.

The positive test came after Palmeiro's appearance before Congress but before he recorded his 3,000th hit last month. That means he reached the milestone -- joining Hank Aaron, Willie Mays and Eddie Murray as the only players in Major League history with 3,000 hits and 500 homers -- after he knew about the positive results, the source told the AP.

When the suspension was announced Monday, Palmeiro stood by his statements to Congress and said he didn't know what caused the positive test.

Stanozolol is what sprinter Ben Johnson of Canada tested positive for when he was stripped of his gold medal and world record in the 100 meters at the 1988 Olympics. It is not available in over-the-counter supplements and is known as a powerful strength-builder.

"It's hard for me to reconcile that someone doesn't know that they have steroids in their body. I'm extraordinarily skeptical," said committee member Rep. Christopher Shays, R-Conn.

"It obviously was disappointing and a little unsettling that the one person so emphatic about not taking steroids was one of the first since then to be disciplined."

Rather than relying on news reports, Davis said, Congress will wait to see what it learns from the information baseball provides.

"How long does this stuff stay in the system? All of that. We're going to look at that to see what the probabilities are," Davis said.

The lawmakers asked for the complete results of all drug tests taken by Palmeiro, including what was detected and how much. During a telephone conversation with Davis on Tuesday night, Palmeiro agreed to have baseball release that information to Congress.

"He was pretty adamant about the point he didn't do anything," Davis said. "He also remarked he didn't have a lot of time to enjoy his 3,000th hit. There was an allusion to that."

They spoke for about three minutes and Palmeiro had attorneys on the phone with him, Davis said.

"What we are concerned about, obviously, is the integrity of the committee process when we swear people in. We have an obligation to look further into it, and I explained that to him, and he said he understood," the congressman said.

In confirming that he would cooperate with the committee, Palmeiro said in a statement that if it has any additional questions, "I am ready and willing to answer each and every one of them."

Palmeiro's agent, Arn Tellem, did not return a telephone call from the AP on Wednesday.

Baseball spokesman Rich Levin said the documents would be released as requested "in a timely manner," but did not give specifics and did not know if they would be made public once received.

The No. 2 official in the players' association, Gene Orza, declined comment when asked whether the union was concerned about Palmeiro's willingness to supply information. The union fought hard to protect the confidentiality of those involved in the testing process.

Davis was critical of Commissioner Bud Selig, the union and the sport's steroid policy at the March hearing. He and Waxman have proposed legislation that would establish uniform drug programs and punishments in the major U.S. professional sports.

But Davis praised baseball's handling of the Palmeiro case.

"He did get an appeal under this procedure. He filed it. And obviously they didn't cut him any slack," Davis said. "I'm satisfied that baseball proceeded as they said they would."

Among the questions that Congress can't answer are what all of this will mean for Palmeiro's Hall of Fame candidacy.

One of Palmeiro's former teams, the Texas Rangers, canceled a planned ceremony before Friday night's game against the Orioles to honor him for reaching 3,000 hits. Major League rules don't allow suspended players on the field after batting practice.


Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.