Are the Mets Just Bad

[Benjamin Grimm]

It was a 4-6 stretch. Not ideal, but not crippling in early August. There's plenty of time to recover. We'll just have to see if they do.

[kcmets]

Edgy MD wrote: YNaGaYTYAWYW. YNaBaYTYAWYL.

That was Prof G, not hammerq.... haha...

[Edgy MD]

Well, I think all competitors, when measured against the arc of time and history, will trend toward mediocrity. If the competition doesn't get you, time and rot and fatigue will. If you can't get the competition, eventually time and rot and fatigue will catch up with them for you.



What makes it interesting is that everyday is a struggle against that trend, and so we revel in how long we and the heroes we allow to embody us can sustain that struggle.



This series was a victory for Seattle. Maybe, at another time and place, it might be a victory for the Mets. But time and rot and fatigue were always going to win.



Those black pants, tho'.

[TheNextMetsManager]

=TheNextMetsManager post_id=163308 time=1721600512 user_id=193]
not bad, just meh. Does Stearns have it in him to be bold? probably not.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy MD wrote: Well, I think all competitors, when measured against the arc of time and history, will trend toward mediocrity. If the competition doesn't get you, time and rot and fatigue will. If you can't get the competition, eventually time and rot and fatigue will catch up with them for you. What makes it interesting is that everyday is a struggle against that trend, and so we revel in how long we and the heroes we allow to embody us can sustain that struggle. This series was a victory for Seattle. Maybe, at another time and place, it might be a victory for the Mets. But time and rot and fatigue were always going to win. Those black pants, tho'.

All of them? They're all mediocre? Every last one of them?

[Edgy MD]

No, that's not what I wrote.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Oh. They all trend towards mediocrity.



And that's why the Mets went 4-6 on this last road trip?



Eventually, they'll all be dead, too.

[Centerfield]

Some splits.



The Mets are now 8th in MLB in runs scored. Tied with San Diego, though we have played one less game.



They were 8th in MLB in runs scored Pre-All Star, and are 9th in MLB in the second half. So while they've definitely cooled down from their torrid stretch, their second half hitting is more or less like their first.



As far as pitching, the Mets are 19th in team ERA, and 22nd in WHIP. Obviously not great. The high WHIP is due in large part to the large number of walks (4th highest in MLB).



Their starter ERA is 4.21 (18th) and WHIP is 1.29 (21st).



Bullpen numbers are interesting. Their ERA is actually lower 4.01 (15th)., but their WHIP is similar to that of the starters: 1.31 (21st). I would have thought our bullpen numbers would be a lot worse.



I guess the numbers back up our overall impression of the team. They hit well enough to make the playoffs, but the pitching isn't really there.

[batmagadanleadoff]

=Centerfield post_id=167354 time=1724445929 user_id=65]
Some splits.



The Mets are now 8th in MLB in runs scored. Tied with San Diego, though we have played one less game.



They were 8th in MLB in runs scored Pre-All Star, and are 9th in MLB in the second half. So while they've definitely cooled down from their torrid stretch, their second half hitting is more or less like their first.



As far as pitching, the Mets are 19th in team ERA, and 22nd in WHIP. Obviously not great. The high WHIP is due in large part to the large number of walks (4th highest in MLB).



Their starter ERA is 4.21 (18th) and WHIP is 1.29 (21st).



Bullpen numbers are interesting. Their ERA is actually lower 4.01 (15th)., but their WHIP is similar to that of the starters: 1.31 (21st). I would have thought our bullpen numbers would be a lot worse.



I guess the numbers back up our overall impression of the team. They hit well enough to make the playoffs, but the pitching isn't really there.

[CitiFieldPornRoom]

The Mets are a mediocre team still, in general. More things have gone right than wrong, so they're slightly better than mediocre perhaps now, but on average, they're not really better than the Padres, Diamondbacks, or Braves. That doesn't mean they can't beat them, or things can't go more right for them, but they're playing with a slight handicap in talent and the front office has still been treating this year as house money. Huascar Brazobán just got optioned, lending additional credence to the idea that "going for it" wasn't really the main plan of the deadline.



Senga getting hurt again really is the pivot point, imo. Having that real #1 down the stretch would've been key, but now we slide down the depth chart and the 6th best guy gets those innings.



But they've got enough talent to go on a run again too, and if it's now, keeping the Diamondbacks and Padres close, that could be the difference. Alonso can pick it up, so can Alvarez. Winkler at least raises the floor, keeps them from using truly Quad-A folk.



Anything can happen in a short series, but if they're the third WC they're even more overmatched. Probably comes down to if Severino and Manaea are on.



But bottom line is that if Manfred hadn't watered down the playoffs without complementing with expansion, the Mets wouldn't seriously be thinking they were in it.

[batmagadanleadoff]

=CitiFieldPornRoom post_id=167357 time=1724450751 user_id=194]




But bottom line is that if Manfred hadn't watered down the playoffs without complementing with expansion, the Mets wouldn't seriously be thinking they were in it.

[CitiFieldPornRoom]

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=167361 time=1724451757 user_id=68]
=CitiFieldPornRoom post_id=167357 time=1724450751 user_id=194]




But bottom line is that if Manfred hadn't watered down the playoffs without complementing with expansion, the Mets wouldn't seriously be thinking they were in it.

[The Hot Corner]

They are basically a flawed team. They have pretty good power, but far too few hitter's that can be counted on to deliver with RISP. The starting pitching lacks an ace (w/ Senga out), Severino and Manaea have been pretty good, but the rest of the rotation is too inconsistent or unreliable. The bullpen has been disappointing. Even if by some miracle they made the playoffs (which I really don't see happening), I would expect them to be knocked out in the first round. They just don't have the starting rotation to match most good teams in a short series.

[Edgy MD]

They're all flawed, this year more than most.



It comes down to who is playing their best baseball at the right time.

[Edgy MD]

Mets starters have the https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&lg=nl&qual=y&season=2024&season1=2024&ind=0&team=0%2Cts&stats=sta&type=8&month=31&sortcol=16&sortdir=default&pagenum=1second-best ERA in the league over the second half, and amazingly, they've thrown about 15 more innings than any other team.

[metirish]

Promotion and relagation now!

[G-Fafif]

There always seem to be two Mets in any given lineup battling a 3-for-30 slump, yet here we are where we are.

[kcmets]

They kinda suck, except when they don't.



I expect a roller coaster ride in September. I relish this

ride, wind flapping through my curly locks...

[batmagadanleadoff]

They don't suck. I've said this several times already but the Mets are no longer the team that got off to a dreadful start and took about two months to find themselves. They're now one of the best teams in baseball. And ever since Vientos and Martinez began playing every day, the Mets have been playing better baseball than just about every other team in the majors. Better than the Dodgers. Better than the Yankees. Better than the Braves. Ironically, about the only teams that have been better than the Mets since they foiund themselves are two of the three teams they're chasing for Wild Card spots -- the Padres and the DBacks.



The Mets now have an MVP candidtate -- Lindor. And Vientos -- a player who rate-wise, has been hitting like an MVP all season long. Vientos won't win the MVP award even if he continues to hit at the rate he's hitting at for the rest of the season because he missed too much playing time while down in Syracuse, but he should get down ballot MVP votes. And now, suddenly, the Mets have two starters, Peterson and Manaea, that have been pitching like Cy Young award candidates for several starts. Manaea is in the top 10 of virtually every important pitching statistic. If the pitching holds up, if Senga returns, good things are possible.

[batmagadanleadoff]

They don't suck. I've said this several times already but the Mets are no longer the team that got off to a dreadful start and took about two months to find themselves. They're now one of the best teams in baseball. And ever since Vientos and Martinez began playing every day, the Mets have been playing better baseball than just about every other team in the majors. Better than the Dodgers. Better than the Yankees. Better than the Braves. Ironically, about the only teams that have been better than the Mets since they foiund themselves are two of the three teams they're chasing for Wild Card spots -- the Padres and the DBacks. The Mets now have an MVP candidtate -- Lindor. And Vientos -- a player who rate-wise, has been hitting like an MVP all season long. Vientos won't win the MVP award even if he continues to hit at the rate he's hitting at for the rest of the season because he missed too much playing time while down in Syracuse, but he should get down ballot MVP votes. And now, suddenly, the Mets have two starters, Peterson and Manaea, that have been pitching like Cy Young award candidates for several starts. Manaea is in the top 10 of virtually every important pitching statistic. If the pitching holds up, if Senga returns, good things are possible.

MLB records since June 1:



[FIMG=777]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53969448063_e0ee8fcb02_c.jpg[/FIMG]



Since June 1st, the Mets have been on a 100 win pace, over 162 games.

[Benjamin Grimm]

And if they can keep up that pace the rest of the way, they'll finish with 89 wins, which has a pretty good chance, I think, of getting them into the postseason.

[Fman99]

The Mets are good

[batmagadanleadoff]

They don't suck. I've said this several times already but the Mets are no longer the team that got off to a dreadful start and took about two months to find themselves. They're now one of the best teams in baseball. And ever since Vientos and Martinez began playing every day, the Mets have been playing better baseball than just about every other team in the majors. Better than the Dodgers. Better than the Yankees. Better than the Braves. Ironically, about the only teams that have been better than the Mets since they foiund themselves are two of the three teams they're chasing for Wild Card spots -- the Padres and the DBacks. The Mets now have an MVP candidtate -- Lindor. And Vientos -- a player who rate-wise, has been hitting like an MVP all season long. Vientos won't win the MVP award even if he continues to hit at the rate he's hitting at for the rest of the season because he missed too much playing time while down in Syracuse, but he should get down ballot MVP votes. And now, suddenly, the Mets have two starters, Peterson and Manaea, that have been pitching like Cy Young award candidates for several starts. Manaea is in the top 10 of virtually every important pitching statistic. If the pitching holds up, if Senga returns, good things are possible. MLB records since June 1: [FIMG=777]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53969448063_e0ee8fcb02_c.jpg[/FIMG] Since June 1st, the Mets have been on a 100 win pace, over 162 games.

The Mets have the best ERA in all of baseball since mid June.



Also, they have four every-day players (Vientos, Lindor, Alonso and Martinez) that have OPS+ numbers over 120, and a fifth, Nimmo, who is almost there.



Pay attention. Right now, the Mets are about as good as any other team in baseball and could go toe-to-toe with anyone. That 100 win pace that they're on is meaningful. That's as many games as the 1969 squad won.



It took the Mets about two months to "find themselves" this season. If they could've played the way they've been playing since June right from the start, they'd have the best record in the majors and (obviously) be in position for a first round bye.

[Centerfield]

It's a really interesting point. I tend to discount any argument that starts with “If you disregard [time when team was bad]….”



But you're right. This team is not the team that started terribly. That team didn't have Martinez, Vientos, and Iglesias. Even Torrens. Nido/Narvaez are gone. So are Houser and Diekman and a bunch of other ineffective relievers.



The downside, I guess, is that Nimmo, Lindor and McNeil can play as poorly in September as they did in April. But even if one of them slump there should be enough production in the rest of the lineup.



And if Nunez/Scott/Senga/SRF return, our pitching could get even better.

[Edgy MD]

It's funny, but I already have Christian Scott's time in the rotation tucked in the "Did that even happen?" file, right next to that time James Franco and Anne Hathaway co-hosted the Oscars.



If I think about it hard, I'd guess he was there for a month or so, making four or five starts, but I'm checking now, and he started nine games.

[Benjamin Grimm]

He was the Schaefer Mets Pitcher of the Month in May!

[batmagadanleadoff]

=Centerfield post_id=168727 time=1725455187 user_id=65]
It's a really interesting point. I tend to discount any argument that starts with “If you disregard [time when team was bad]….”

[Frayed Knot]

The quote below is from and IGT thread but I thought the answer fit better here:


=batmagadanleadoff post_id=168872 time=1725517620 user_id=68]
Some day, the Mets are gonna win a game and actually gain in the standings on one of the teams ahead of them.



Some day.

[Bob Alpacadaca]

I worry about the seven games with the Phillies.

[Edgy MD]

Gotta beat the best to be the best.