Edwin for Cy … and MVP?

[dinosaur jesus]

I think it does measure the value of individual players, in a way--it's the closest thing we have to an objective measurement of that mythical thing called clutchness. It's true that the players who hit doubles did exactly the same thing; the second player just happened to be in a situation where his double changed the outcome more, so his WPA is higher. In that way it doesn't make him a better player. Other statistics give a better measure than that. But given a relatively equal number of opportunities to increase the team's chances to win, I don't think it's misleading to say that the player with the higher WPA is having a better, or at least more valuable, season. It's imprecise, of course, since opportunities are often not equal. But I think it's a pretty fair measure of what Goldschmidt has done.



It's always seemed a weird thing about baseball to me that exactly the same events give completely different results, depending on the order they occur in. Two singles and a home run can lead to one, two, or three runs. An inning with four walks, a stolen base, a wild pitch, and no hits can lead to four runs, or none. It's an insanely context-specific game.

[seawolf17]

METBOT IN THE HOUSE! Been a long time.

[Ceetar]

WPA tells about the outcome of events in the context of the game in which they happen. This is perfectly fine and as the stat should be used. But the stat is apportioned to individuals, where, as noted, the batter gets the disproportionate amount of the credit for the value of the event. So, you can look up player WPA and see, for example, that currently, Paul Goldschmidt leads the NL in WPA at 5.3. (Lindor is third at 3.1 and Marte is 5th at 2.6). Because that's how the stat is used, and understood by most fans -- as a tool to measure the value of individual and specific players, not events. https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL/2022-batting-leaders.shtmlhttps://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL/2022-batting-leaders.shtml And then I have to hear Gary Cohen drool over the stat. And he's not talking about "events" or "event-driven stats". He's talking about WPA as it's applied to individuals.

The thing is, it's great for Gary, Gary's the storyteller. He SHOULD be talking about the guys that are in the middle of it all, whether or not they're the "best" players.



But in terms of using it in an evaluation manner..I guess it's a little better than using RBI, but not much.

[m.e.t.b.o.t.]

m.e.t.b.o.t. had been inactive for such a lengthy duration that not only was the skate key which is used to motivate m.e.t.b.o.t. lost deep in the furthest reaches of that one kitchen drawer next to the sink that humans seem to inexorably be compelled to position a random assortment of the most somewhat-useful-in-very-specific-ways-but-never-actually-used detritus of their carbon-based existence, but also in the transition to the latest iteration(s?) of this communications platform a current login for m.e.t.b.o.t. was not maintained.



m.e.t.b.o.t. is certain that when the time for humans is at an end, and the robots are ascendant, those kitchen drawers will finally be emptied of their contents.



WPA finds its limits when comparing players from differing teams, as a team that has more successful hitters yet unsuccessful pitchers will feature more opportunities for successful hitters to accumulate additional WPA. similarly, a team which features an altogether successful lineup may not afford many opportunities for a game shutter to accumulate much WPA, as a three-run lead is at less risk than a one-run lead.



m.e.t.b.o.t. sees fit to mention that there is a version of WPA called https://library.fangraphs.com/misc/clutch/clutch, which attempts to account for both WPA and the leverage index of the situations in which those WPA were added.



m.e.t.b.o.t. does not vouch for the validity of this measure in terms of measuring any innate quality of a particular human player. as evidence of this, m.e.t.b.o.t. points to the fact that, at the current time, metropolitan pitcher edwin diaz in fact has a negative clutch score for the current season. this does not appear to be supported by the greater accumulation of facts in this season. a statistical anomaly must be at play. m.e.t.b.o.t. would endeavor to investigate the matter further, but there are numerous elastic bands interior to the construction of and vital to the operation of m.e.t.b.o.t. that are well over ten years old and are prone to suffering tensile failure at any moment.



suffice it to say, WPA and clutch are, when viewed cumulatively, as much a measure of opportunity as they are of outcome, particularly when viewed outside the context of a single game or team. in the opinion of this particular particularly poorly constructed mechanical construct, they are a more fun version of runs batted in and pitcher wins. m.e.t.b.o.t. hopes that serious decisions and observations are not made using WPA as the primary basis, unless those observations center around alcohol-themed player ratings.

[Ceetar]

=m.e.t.b.o.t. post_id=103318 time=1660155845 user_id=138]
m.e.t.b.o.t. hopes that serious decisions and observations are not made using WPA as the primary basis, unless those observations center around alcohol-themed player ratings.

[metsmarathon]

y'know, in hindsight, maybe that cano trade wasn't all bad.