I'm Keith Hernandez (Not me, Keith) Does Keith Hernandez have his own thread somewhere here?

[MFS62]

The problem is, traditional thinking was you had to be "strong up the middle" defensively, so middle infielders who mostly considered for their glove. Any offense you got was gravy.

First base was an offensive position. dWAR starts first basemen out with -15, because it was where you put your slugger. Any D is a plus.

But we can see first basemen saving errors (and runs), so you can't just look at their own errors. But the perception of first being an offensive position persists to this day.

Bobby was not elected because he did what he was supposed to, but not as well as the voters thought.

Keith wasn't elected because he didn't do what was expected, but did what was he wasn't supposed to do extremely well, and that wasn't appreciated.

Later

[Edgy MD]

Keith wasn't elected, to my thinking, simply because he was a contact hitter who didn't get 3,000 hits.



It's a crappy reason, but that was the standard of the time, and I suspect a lot of voters didn't look too far past that. Didn't finish with a career .300 batting average either.



He sure got my vote.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I thought it was the lack of HR's. The most he hit in one season was 18, and that was in 1987, a year in which the ball was juiced. His 162 game average for HR's was 13. The writers expected more power from first basemen.

[Edgy MD]

Sure, but that's why I describe him as a contact hitter.



If you're not a big slugger, 3,000 hits was your next best ticket. But too often, what that is really a test of is whether you can keep your legs healthy the last five years of your career.



Also, stay away from the cocaine, kids.

[batmagadanleadoff]

#5 - Scott Rolen

[batmagadanleadoff]

#4 - Roger Clemens





So who would rank higher than Clemens besides Barry Bonds?

[metsmarathon]

arod, maybe. but its a stretch.



pujols, possibly, if he's alllowing active players. and even bigger stretches.



otherwise i got nothing.



is there a negro leagues player that's been grossly overlooked by the HOF? or is he holding out on, say, sadaharu oh?



hmm... ichiro...?

[batmagadanleadoff]

A-Rod's not yet eligible, I don't think. He'll appear on the next HOF ballot for the first time ever.



No active players.



Clemens -- seven Cy Young awards!

[nymr83]

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=54441 time=1611152666 user_id=68]
#5 - Scott Rolen

[nymr83]

Bonds has to be there.



Oh is a good guess bit he hasnt gone international yet - would the second greatest japanese player have been somewhere on his list if Oh is eligible?

[batmagadanleadoff]

I didn't know that Japanese league only players were eligible for induction into the HOF in Cooperstown.

[ashie62]

Did not know and do not want.

[metsmarathon]

i don't know that they're NOT eligible....?



has he included any negro leaguers? that's the only other pool of eligible players that i know of.



or he could go super-old school and pick Jim McCormick or Tommy Bond, old deadballers who each only logged 10 years. mccormick's WAR7 was higher than clemens, though you could certainly quibble with such stats from back then. bond's was a touch lower, but still outstanding.



otherwise, i'm fresh out of ideas.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Anyone who is HOF eligible right now can make his list. That means no active players. He's got plenty of Negro Leaguers on his list and 19th century players, too. He's also got ineligible (banned) players on his list -- Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose. One category I'm not sure of is whether players who are still appearing on the initial HOF ballot without having fallen off that ballot are eligible for his list, but I assume no because he's named 97 players already and no one from that category has made his 100 yet.

[Edgy MD]

=metsmarathon post_id=54558 time=1611252592 user_id=83]otherwise, i'm fresh out of ideas.

[metsmarathon]

does michael jordan's nba career count? alternatively, perhaps bo jackson, by the same cross-sports accounting?



apologies for not having access to the list so far. i'm really just tossing far-flung ideas at the bad ideas at the fan and hoping some of it sticks to the walls.

[metsmarathon]

by edgys accounting, i think we can all agree that mr. met should be #1.

[Edgy MD]

Well, if we're admitting mascots themselves, Mister is the man, but if we're inducting mascot performers, then Ted Giannoulas has to be atop any list.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Yeah, I think the San Diego Chicken and the Phillie Phanatic probably go in before Mr. Met. They're more performance oriented. Mr. Met is just an affable figure, except when he's giving the finger to someone.

[ashie62]

Mister Met, just raise that finger to the Phillie Phanatic, thank you.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Well, this is unexpected.



#3 - Barry Bonds

[metsmarathon]

um....



ok, stretching, and poking around on wikipedia...



how about william wheaton and william tucker, of the back-in-the-day knickerbockers, who (according to wikipedia) are credited with coming up with the original rules of baseball.



without them, we ain't got nothin'



otherwise... uh... i'm out of ideas.

[Frayed Knot]

=metsmarathon post_id=54584 time=1611329133 user_id=83]
um....



ok, stretching, and poking around on wikipedia...



how about william wheaton

[MFS62]

"Indian" Bob Johnson:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnsbo01.shtmlhttps://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnsbo01.shtml

Do the people who played in MLB during WW II get enough recognition?

Later

[batmagadanleadoff]

"Indian" Bob Johnson: https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnsbo01.shtmlhttps://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnsbo01.shtml

Better than Bonds and Clemens?

[MFS62]

"Indian" Bob Johnson: https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnsbo01.shtmlhttps://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnsbo01.shtml Better than Bonds and Clemens?

Of course not better on talent or stats. But because they were implicated in steroids, I believe he belongs on a Hall eligibility list and they don't.

Later

[batmagadanleadoff]

#2 is one of the breakout stars of Ken Burns's Baseball documentary -- Buck O'Neill.

[Edgy MD]

There we go. Ambassadors.



The Dutch Rennert Society lives!

[LWFS]

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=54559 time=1611253552 user_id=68]
Anyone who is HOF eligible right now can make his list. That means no active players. He's got plenty of Negro Leaguers on his list and 19th century players, too. He's also got ineligible (banned) players on his list -- Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose. One category I'm not sure of is whether players who are still appearing on the initial HOF ballot without having fallen off that ballot are eligible for his list, but I assume no because he's named 97 players already and no one from that category has made his 100 yet.

[MFS62]

Anyone who is HOF eligible right now can make his list. That means no active players. He's got plenty of Negro Leaguers on his list and 19th century players, too. He's also got ineligible (banned) players on his list -- Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose. One category I'm not sure of is whether players who are still appearing on the initial HOF ballot without having fallen off that ballot are eligible for his list, but I assume no because he's named 97 players already and no one from that category has made his 100 yet. No Josh Gibson yet, no?

Gibson was elected into the Hall of Fame in 1972.

https://baseballhall.org/hall-of-famers/gibson-joshhttps://baseballhall.org/hall-of-famers/gibson-josh



Later