Let's huddle here and talk... Syndergaard

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

The Padres are apparently world serious about getting him in a trade. Tracky suggests a deal could be built around Fernando Tatis Jr., which would make sense given Omar's string-pulling.

https://www.sny.tv/mets/news/mets-noah-syndergaard-trade-interest-is-serious-and-real/300818780

It's interesting. I like Syndy a lot, but he's been injured a lot too, and a perhaps a controlled explosion is what the Mets need.

[bmfc1]

I thought that they want to win next year. If so, then why trade a high quality pitcher? They would want Fernando Tatis, Jr. but he was in AA next year so that would be a trade for the future.

[batmagadanleadoff]

You'll love him even less when he blows his arm out and has that practically inevitable TJ surgery. I'd trade him for a comparable hitter with the same ceiling every day of the week. I wouldn't have said this two years ago but times change.

[Edgy MD]

He's also somebody who has never quite gotten the lesson of Matt Harvey, carrying himself as if he's bullet proof, not knowing Karma is coming at the back of his head like a massive hammer.

[HahnSolo]

If Tatis is really one of the top prospects in baseball (and IIRC Keith Law had him #1 at some point recently), and you're getting Tatis plus? That feels like a trade you really have to consider.

And I'm not advocating to just trade Noah for the sake of trading him--even though in the last week I've been ready to deal him to the Cubs and now the Padres--but I'm getting tired of the perception from Mets twitter and FB that you can't trade starters because we should build the team around them. Well it's been five years and I'm still waiting. Our top three starters last year were great and where did it get us?

I also don't expect the FO to open their wallets in FA, so I'm open to trying to get creative with trade partners.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Jim Duquette yesterday on Mets Hot Stove suggested a similar trade, of Noah to the Padres for Tatis Jr. and a pitcher. I forget the pitcher's name, but he was someone that Duquette said could be ready for a big-league rotation shortly into the 2019 season. He's also the son of a former major leaguer.

[Benjamin Grimm]

This is the pitcher that Duquette mentioned: Cal Quantrill

[Centerfield]

I don't see how trading Syndergaard helps us win now.

Either win now and go for it, or win tomorrow and tear it down.

Jesus.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Duquette said that Tatis would be ready to be promoted about a month in to the regular season. I don't know... he's 19 years old (turns 20 in January) and has not yet played above AA.

[seawolf17]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Duquette said that Tatis would be ready to be promoted about a month in to the regular season. I don't know... he's 19 years old (turns 20 in January) and has not yet played above AA.

And yet, guys like Soto and Acuna have done it. So it's not impossible.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

He's real good, was killing it it in AA before a thumb injury. 5-tool kinda player, wonder if he'd play 3rd like dad.

Brown-and-yellow pajama wearing fish taco eating kool-aid guzzlers in San Diego assume Tatis and high drafted lefty pitcher MacKenize Gore are "off the table" in trade talks and suggest C Austin Hedges and relievers like Kirby Yates, though that sounds to me more like a Seth Lugo package.

[Benjamin Grimm]

seawolf17 wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: Duquette said that Tatis would be ready to be promoted about a month in to the regular season. I don't know... he's 19 years old (turns 20 in January) and has not yet played above AA. And yet, guys like Soto and Acuna have done it. So it's not impossible.

Certainly not impossible. But I'm not sure how much you can count on it.

[Benjamin Grimm]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: He's real good, was killing it it in AA before a thumb injury. 5-tool kinda player, wonder if he'd play 3rd like dad.

That's what Duquette suggested.

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Brown-and-yellow pajama wearing fish taco eating kool-aid guzzlers in San Diego assume Tatis and high drafted lefty pitcher MacKenize Gore are "off the table" in trade talks and suggest C Austin Hedges and relievers like Kirby Yates, though that sounds to me more like a Seth Lugo package.

Okay, then. That means I want to insist on Tatis and Gore!

Gore is also 19, but hasn't pitched above Single A. If Syndergaard is leaving, I would want the deal to include a big-league starter for 2019.

[seawolf17]

Wil Myers' contract is super weird.

6 years/$83M (2017-22), plus 2023 club option
signed extension with San Diego 1/17/17 (avoided arbitration, $4M-$3.4M)
$15M signing bonus
17:$2M, 18:$2M, 19:$3M, 20:$20M, 21:$20M, 22:$20M, 23:$20M club option ($1M buyout)

I'm assuming those first three years would still be arb-eligible years? That's a really weird backload.

[Frayed Knot]

Just by coinkydink, Baseball Prospectus came out with their Padres prospect list today!! - although it's just a raw list and the analysis is hidden behind their pay wall.

- Tatis is #1 and he'll be Top-10 across the whole sport when the full lists come out later this winter.
- Quantrill isn't mentioned even though he was on some top-50 lists last year, was a #8 overall draft pick in 2016, should be relatively polished coming out of Stanford and as the son of a ML'er.
Not sure if something set him back this year or what.
- Gore was the #3 overall pick but a year later and out of HS. Sounds like he'd maybe be a higher ceiling but also younger and a considerably less ready option as compared to Quantrill
- The other name I've heard before in potential trade talks involving the Pads is the catcher Francisco Mejia. Just turned 23, has had cups of java in ML w/both Cleveland & SD, was dealt mid-season to SD in the deal bringing the seriously, I just used a racist word when I really meant "Guardians" reliever Brad Hand

[Frayed Knot]

If Tatis is really one of the top prospects in baseball (and IIRC Keith Law had him #1 at some point recently), and you're getting Tatis plus? That feels like a trade you really have to consider.

#2 overall in MLB's (Jonathan Mayo & Jim Callis) mid-season 2018 update, behind only Vladdy Junior
Their write-up:

[Tatis] made an immediate impact in his pro debut, finishing the season as a 17-year-old in the Class A Short-Season Northwest League, and then emerged as a top-flight prospect in 2017 as he became the first 18-year-old in Midwest League history to post at least 20 home runs and 20 stolen bases. Perhaps even more impressive was how Tatis Jr. handled himself after making the jump directly to Double-A San Antonio in August, and he continued to draw raves in his return to level in 2018 before undergoing season-ending surgery for a fractured thumb in late July.

Tatis Jr. has all the ingredients to become an offensive force in the Majors, as his bat speed, leveraged swing and overall capacity to make adjustments all portend a future plus hitter with plus power. He proved vulnerable to spin and sequencing early in the year but tightened his approach as the season progressed en route to pacing the Midwest League with 75 walks. Many evaluators believe Tatis Jr. is merely scraping the surface of his offensive potential, as he still has considerable room to grow into his tall and athletic frame.

That larger frame doesn't currently impede Tatis Jr.'s abilities at shortstop, where he makes highlight-reel plays on a daily basis thanks to his athleticism, range and rocket arm, though further physical development could ultimately force him to third base. Even if that's case, Tatis Jr.'s bat gives him the ceiling of a perennial All-Star, possibly even an MVP candidate in his prime.

[Centerfield]

If Tatis is really one of the top prospects in baseball (and IIRC Keith Law had him #1 at some point recently), and you're getting Tatis plus? That feels like a trade you really have to consider. #2 overall in MLB's (Jonathan Mayo & Jim Callis) mid-season 2018 update, behind only Vladdy Junior Their write-up: [Tatis] made an immediate impact in his pro debut, finishing the season as a 17-year-old in the Class A Short-Season Northwest League, and then emerged as a top-flight prospect in 2017 as he became the first 18-year-old in Midwest League history to post at least 20 home runs and 20 stolen bases. Perhaps even more impressive was how Tatis Jr. handled himself after making the jump directly to Double-A San Antonio in August, and he continued to draw raves in his return to level in 2018 before undergoing season-ending surgery for a fractured thumb in late July. Tatis Jr. has all the ingredients to become an offensive force in the Majors, as his bat speed, leveraged swing and overall capacity to make adjustments all portend a future plus hitter with plus power. He proved vulnerable to spin and sequencing early in the year but tightened his approach as the season progressed en route to pacing the Midwest League with 75 walks. Many evaluators believe Tatis Jr. is merely scraping the surface of his offensive potential, as he still has considerable room to grow into his tall and athletic frame. That larger frame doesn't currently impede Tatis Jr.'s abilities at shortstop, where he makes highlight-reel plays on a daily basis thanks to his athleticism, range and rocket arm, though further physical development could ultimately force him to third base. Even if that's case, Tatis Jr.'s bat gives him the ceiling of a perennial All-Star, possibly even an MVP candidate in his prime.

If he's better than his father, we are looking at 3 grand slams in one inning.

[Benjamin Grimm]

And what if he's better than his mother?

[Frayed Knot]

Centerfield wrote: If he's better than his father, we are looking at 3 grand slams in one inning.

Off the same pitcher!

[Centerfield]

I find it one of the weird quirks of baseball that we ended up having both Tatis and Park as Mets. Two guys linked forever by a memorable play, both end up as Mets.

Others:

Robin Ventura gets pummeled by Nolan Ryan.

Jesse Orosco strikes out Kevin Bass to end '86 NLCS.


Left Davey Johnson making the last out in '69 off the list since he was never a Met as a player.

[G-Fafif]

Centerfield wrote: I find it one of the weird quirks of baseball that we ended up having both Tatis and Park as Mets. Two guys linked forever by a memorable play, both end up as Mets. Others: Robin Ventura gets pummeled by Nolan Ryan. Jesse Orosco strikes out Kevin Bass to end '86 NLCS. Left Davey Johnson making the last out in '69 off the list since he was never a Met as a player.

Elio Chacon and Willie Mays went at it in 1962. Ten years later, Mays was a Met...and Elio Chacon was ten years older.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Syndergaard is a top-10 starter in the game at age 26, with potential for improvement and three years of arbitration still ahead of him. He's a cheap, superlative known quantity, a win-now piece AND A future-star piece.

The price should START at Tatis and another top prospect (Mejia, Gore), and should likely include Quantrill besides.

[smg58]

The Padres have a talent surplus at catcher and centerfield, too. I'd be shocked if Tatis is seriously on the table, but you have to listen if he is.

[Mex17]

I don't like it.

You have a freshly minted Cy Young award winner in his prime right now. This is no time to be waiting for 19 year old prospects to bloom. I am all for that when the time is right, but this is not that time. They need to be playing to win now.

[batmagadanleadoff]

And apropos of this thread --- is Syndergaard on the trading block?

https://www.amazinavenue.com/2018/11/17/18099773/mets-syndergaard-on-the-block

___

I wonder if the Mets might do a stealth rebuild this off-season? That is, rebuild or some form of a teardown, but without labeling the move as such? You know, to try and fool the fans because you just know that the incompetent owners don't have the balls to rebuild even if they'd like to, and even if that's the advice they're getting. Whatever they do, it'll likely be a half-assed half-measured execution where they don't rebuild and teardown all the way, guaranteeing that they won't compete near term while their prospects for fielding a strong team two or three years into the future are going to be murkier than normal odds say they oughtta be. And if they try to contend this season, it'll be with a coupl'a new Michael Cuddyer style pickups. I think there's creedence to that idea that the new GM is on a honeymoon period and gets a new slate and perhaps, under those conditions, the owners might spend more than they're prone to spend. But I'm not counting on it. I'd bet same old, same old. TBD

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

They will make some kind of crowd pleasing ticket selling move, I'm confident. I am also confident they won't really bother to do so in the context of a real plan. A teardown or stealth rebuilding are always in the fans minds but I don't believe the club ever thinks in those terms.

They will cut every corner.

[Guest 41Forever]

I'm feeling pretty optimistic. You have a new GM with a different and controversial background. He's going to want to show he can make an impact. I think this is the year they'll let him see what he can do.

[Guest d'Kong76]

41Forever wrote: I think this is the year they'll let him see what he can do.

A short leash and constant looking over the shoulder by Fredjeff is more likely.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

I'm expecting window dressing and lip service this off season. I don't expect any substantial moves from VA and the Wilpons.

[bmfc1]

From Ken Rosenthal today in The Athletic:

If​ the Mets trade right-hander Noah Syndergaard, it​ will​ not​ be​ for​ a package of​ high-end​ prospects.​ Or​ at​ least,​​ that will not be the end game. The Mets, intent on improving in both 2019 and beyond, are unwilling to take a step backward next season, according to major-league sources. So, if they move Syndergaard or any of their other starting pitchers – all of whom are drawing trade interest, sources say – their goal will be to wind up with a better roster short- and long-term. That could mean acquiring major leaguers as part of the return. It could mean flipping some of the prospects in the deal for another asset. It could mean signing a free-agent starting pitcher to “back-fill” the rotation.

https://theathletic.com/661083/2018/11/18/rosenthal-mets-end-game-in-a-possible-syndergaard-trade-orioles-skipper-search-rangers-rotation-questions/