IST NLCS 2018: MIL vs LAD -- Senior Circuitry

[Centerfield]

TransMonk wrote: That’s Front Row Amy. She’s had those seats at Miller Park for years.

This is terrific.

Big boobs + Front Row seats = celebrity

What a country.

[Fman99]

Centerfield wrote: TransMonk wrote: That’s Front Row Amy. She’s had those seats at Miller Park for years. This is terrific. Big boobs + Front Row seats = celebrity What a country.

She's got two qualities I admire in a gal, right out of the gate.

[Fman99]

1. She loves baseball.

2. She keeps score of the game manually.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Front Row Amy for President in 2020. She can't be any worse than what we already have.

[Frayed Knot]

Centerfield wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: Lew Alcindor is, right now, kicking Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's ass. [fimg=110]https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/-/media/Images/SBJ-Photos/2014/02/10/Champions-Kareem-Abdul-Jabbar.ashx?la=en&hash=4421B7AF5F88A946093AF2749B7FD297936E899F[/fimg] [fimg=220]https://s22928.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Kareem-Abdul-Jabbar-640x454.jpg[/fimg] I like just got this.

Sometimes the more obscure references are the best ones, especially seeing as how a sizable number of folk don't know (or forgot) about his previous name or that he was ever anything other than a Laker.
He was actually already calling himself KAJ partway through his tenure with the Bucks, but I wasn't about to let an inconvenient fact get in the way of a good joke.

[Centerfield]

Yelich just bunted and walked to first.

Infuriating to watch these good teams do what the Mets refused to do all year long.

[Centerfield]

It struck me last night as I was watching Josh Hader blow away the Dodgers in the 8th. He's going to be the World Series MVP. The Brewers are going to win the whole thing and that dickhead is going to end up the MVP.

You'll hear things like "redemption" and "maturity" and "the person he is now", but have no doubt about it the guy with the racist, homophobic tweets will win the MVP. And the crowd that gave him the standing ovation will be celebrating in the streets.

Then Mark Attanasio will invite Bud Selig to join the celebration and we'll honor his lifetime of achievements. The fraudster who had to pay $280 million in damages for collusion, and made a career out of self-dealing, will end up sipping champagne.

This will come a few weeks after the judge accused of sexual assault is confirmed to the Supreme Court, having been appointed by the President, also accused of sexual assault and, like Selig, found liable for fraud.

2018 ladies and gentlemen.

[TransMonk]

I would add that Ryan Braun's 2012 PED denial was 2018 way before 2018.

From a 2013 Business Insider story:

Braun started with denials: "If I had done this intentionally, or unintentionally, I'd be the first one to step up and say 'I did it.' By no means am I perfect, but if I have ever made any mistakes in my life, I have taken responsibility for my actions...I truly believe in my heart, and would bet my life that this substance never entered my body at any point." He then blamed others for tarnishing his name, and that he was putting the game ahead of himself: "There were a lot of times when I wanted to come out and tell the entire story, to attack everybody as I've been attacked, as my name's been dragged through the mud as everything I've worked for my entire life was called into question. There were a lot of times I wanted to come out, tell the entire story, but at the end of the day I recognized what's actually best for the game of baseball and I put that ahead of what was actually best for myself." He claimed he was fighting for others that were wrongly accused: "I've always stood up for what is right. Today is about everybody who's been wrongly accused, and everybody who's ever had to stand up for what is actually right...I will continue to take the high road because that's who I am, and that's the way that I've lived my life. We won because the truth is on my side." And wanted everybody to know that he was the victim: "I am a victim of a process that completely broke down and failed the way it was applied to me in this case." But instead of taking the high road, he then suggested that the test collector was up to no good and wondered aloud if somebody was framing him: "What could have possibly happened to it during that 44-hour period (before the collector took the urine sample to FedEx)? There were a lot of things that we learned about the collector, about the collection process, about the way that the entire thing worked that made us very concerned and very suspicious about what could have actually happened...We spoke to biochemists and scientists and we asked them, 'How difficult would it be to tamper with somebody's sample?' And their response was that, 'If they were motivated, it would be extremely easy.'"

He is a cheater AND a liar. It wasn't like he fibbed in response to a question from reporters. He went out of his way to orchestrate a press conference so that he could LIE to the Milwaukee fan base. They still cheer for him like nothing happened. If he were on my team, I'd take some time off from baseball until he was gone. It's amazing to me what people will endure to support their tribe and hope that they win at all costs.

/end political analogy

[Ceetar]

yeah but I don't care about either of those things. I don't care that he took steroids, and I don't care that he went full-lawyer on taking down the charges. That's how our legal system 'works'. Of course, MLB is not the law and they suspended him anyway.

Especially now year later, I'm not sure why Brewers fans should care that he took a dubious substance that had an unknown effect on his baseball abilities.

And I'm always going to side with the players not being able to be arbitrarily suspended for shadowy associations with organizations that MLB doesn't like. It grants them way too much power imo.

[Frayed Knot]

Ceetar wrote: yeah but I don't care about either of those things. I don't care that [braun] took steroids, and I don't care that he went full-lawyer on taking down the charges.

You might want to care about him, based on no evidence or even hints at all, accusing the guy collecting the sample of intentionally tampering it due to his rampant (though never explained) anti-semitism.

That's how our legal system 'works'. Of course, MLB is not the law and they suspended him anyway.

MLB is the law within MLB and within the confines of the agreement with the player's union. Braun wasn't convicted of a crime by MLB (although that collector guy could have sued for defamation and
who knows what else) but he was found, by scientific evidence, guilty of breaking the rules that the league AND his side agreed to.

And I'm always going to side with the players not being able to be arbitrarily suspended for shadowy associations with organizations that MLB doesn't like.

Arbitrary? Really, you're going with word in this case?
And it wasn't for "shadowy associations" is was for drug use.
And it wasn't for the case when he accused the sampler of an illegal act it was the one AFTER THAT ONE that showed he was not only a drug cheat but that he was a liar about the
first positive test as well [as per Monk's comments]. But I'm guessing you're gonna stick with "arbitrary", huh?
If you want to celebrate drug use then go right ahead, but don't pretend this was Joe Namath as part owner of a bar and Selig/MLB retroactively imposed a ban on co-owning slimy bars.

It grants them way too much power imo.

Again I'll refer to the 'both sides agreed' thingie. Inconvenient I know but also, y'know, factual.

[Ceetar]

okay, buying thing from Biogensis <> taking banned substances. That's all I'm saying. Maybe there's more convincing evidence, which they agreed to keep quiet, but some of the stuff MLB got up to was very shadowy too. Sending people to shake down informants and all that. It was, and remains, a damned witch hunt.

They were looking specifically for information to justify suspending A-Rod.

Whether or not Braun is an asshole, we've got plenty of those, that's a different issue. The PEDs? fuck it. they're all still using it. they were all using it. Stand up for yourself and fight it. I don't know what the union thought it was protecting by agreeing to this.

[Centerfield]

Sometimes I just can't even believe the arguments he proposes.

[Frayed Knot]

Ceetar wrote: okay, buying thing from Biogensis <> taking banned substances. That's all I'm saying.

Braun wasn't involved with Biogenesis but rather his regularly scheduled urine sample, the one required by the basic agreement, turned up dirty.
And then when he got off on a technicality he went and demeaned the courier/tester by supplying false reasons on no evidence, AND THEN PROMPTLY GOT CAUGHT AGAIN and admitted
that, yeah, he took them and, btw, I took them the previous time too.

Maybe there's more convincing evidence, which they agreed to keep quiet

There was nothing quiet about any of this.
First test = positive, but he got off on a questionable chain/time of custody issue.
Second test = positive at which point he admitted that the first one was actually positive too and the whole part about the tester intentionally spiking it was a lie.

but some of the stuff MLB got up to was very shadowy too. Sending people to shake down informants and all that. It was, and remains, a damned witch hunt. They were looking specifically for information to justify suspending A-Rod.

Who brought up ARod?

Whether or not Braun is an asshole, we've got plenty of those, that's a different issue.

No, that's the specific issue which Monk brought up.

The PEDs? fuck it. they're all still using it. they were all using it.

Again, if you want to support the free and unfettered use of PEDs go right ahead. But you keep changing the subject and have brought up enough conspiracy theories that faked moon
landing folks are starting to think that you're a bit dizzy, and are churning out enough 'alternate facts' to have the White House applauding.

Stand up for yourself and fight it.

He did, he lost.

I don't know what the union thought it was protecting by agreeing to this.

The players who didn't want to face the choice of endangering their health vs being put at a competitive disadvantage.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Centerfield wrote: Sometimes I just can't even believe the arguments he proposes.

Ceetarted.

[TransMonk]

Frayed Knot wrote: Ceetar wrote: Whether or not Braun is an asshole, we've got plenty of those, that's a different issue. No, that's the specific issue which Monk brought up.

This. Lots of players get caught cheating. You could definitely convince the cynic in me that that situation is now just somewhat baked into baseball. Players cheat, they get caught, they serve a suspension. Most of those guys fess up, give a mumbled apology to a group of reporters at their locker, promise to do better and then serve their time.

But Braun lied. Intentionally. To the fans that supported him and hailed him as a hero. Even at my most cynical, that is a mortal sin. But the Brewers fans cheer him. I've spent a lot of time around Brewers fans and they very rarely bring it up...almost like it never happened.

They cheered on Hader, too, at his time of controversy. Most, not because they are racist or homophobic, but because he wears the laundry and they want to support and protect members of their tribe.

[Centerfield]

Yup. And because he’s one of their’s those minor transgressions are hardly enough to turn on him as long as he keeps shutting the other team down.

Just like Republicans don’t necessarily condone sexual assault. But it seems silly to let something trivial like that keep you from promoting a member of your team.

[Ceetar]

Sorry, I crossed more broadly into the steroid thing at large, hence A-Rod. I just see it as an example of the league abusing authority and makes me slightly sympathetic of guys that fight back, lie, etc. But then I expect that of all the players anyway.

TransMonk wrote: But Braun lied. Intentionally. To the fans that supported him and hailed him as a hero. Even at my most cynical, that is a mortal sin. But the Brewers fans cheer him. I've spent a lot of time around Brewers fans and they very rarely bring it up...almost like it never happened.

I mean, that's a fine stance. I get it, I just don't think of players as 'heroes'. I don't really put much stock into what they say and do off the field. Sure, there's some cool added value for guys like David Wright, but for most of 'em, whatever. They're almost uniformly douchy type-A alpha males assholes. Just talk about baseball and I don't need to hear about your love for the Village cheeseshop.

Didn't Mets fans pretty universally get behind Bartolo Colon? We mostly ignored the Johan Santana incident. Plenty of people are fine with Reyes and even Familia who maybe was 'less guilty'? Not going to throw too many stones at Brewers fans for getting over the Braun thing, who only really hurt the team via missing games/suspension and even that was carefully timed so it didn't bleed into the following season.

Cheering Hader's return is hard to swallow though. I get once he's back and playing and making outs, fine, you cheer the positive result, but this was more than that.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Granderson shouldn't be wearing a double-digit uni number.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Extras! Playoffs! But...

[Looks both ways]

... this is Kinda Shitty Baseball.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

DOYERS

[Frayed Knot]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Extras! Playoffs! But... [Looks both ways] ... this is Kinda Shitty Baseball.

But at least it was long and slow.

The inning Josh Hader pitched (bottom 8) he threw a not-that-unusual 20 pitches to get through the frame, but it also took 18 minutes to play.
That was mostly thanks to two replay reviews (I believe on consecutive pitches) neither of which was overturned or looked that they were all that close to me.

But it's not like the rest of the game was moving quickly either.
More pitchers used (17), and more than twice as many strikeouts recorded (32), than hits (15)

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Yeah I gave up in the 9th, just couldn;t stay awake

[Centerfield]

I liked that they burned Hader and still lost. If they do the "no pitching 3 consecutive days" thing, then he's not available tonight.

You think Counsell still feels good about pitching him for 2 outs with a 4-0 lead?

[Frayed Knot]

Kershaw hustles on the bases more than Manny.
He's walked twice today and had to scamper to 3rd on a double before scoring an important run in the 7th. 5-1 Dodgers and counting.


Brewers got to Kershaw for a run early and threatened again in the 2nd, but have nothing since vs what looks like vintage Kershaw.


Craig Counsell went with lefty starter Wade Miley ... then removed him after one batter so the righty Woodruff could face a Dodger lineup with most, but not all, of their LHBs sitting.
And that worked for a while with only one unearned run against Miley, but now they're into the (real) pen and the Dodgers are pulling away.

[Centerfield]

Counsell is a bit too cute with his moves for me.

Hope LA puts this away.

[Fman99]

Fucking 4:30 playoff games suck. Totally missed 100% of this.

[Centerfield]

Does anyone know the rule on starting pitchers? Is there a minimum they have to throw? I feel like Counsell may have just opened up a can of worms here.

What's to stop a manager from publicly announcing that Steven Matz is your starter, then submit a lineup card with Zack Wheeler.

Or to submit Matz in your lineup card, then say he got hurt jogging out to the mound and start Wheeler in his place. (Wheeler having warmed up in secret)

Does one team have to submit a lineup card and commit before another?

[Ceetar]

Centerfield wrote: Does anyone know the rule on starting pitchers? Is there a minimum they have to throw? I feel like Counsell may have just opened up a can of worms here. What's to stop a manager from publicly announcing that Steven Matz is your starter, then submit a lineup card with Zack Wheeler. Or to submit Matz in your lineup card, then say he got hurt jogging out to the mound and start Wheeler in his place. (Wheeler having warmed up in secret) Does one team have to submit a lineup card and commit before another?

(f) The pitcher named in the batting order handed the umpire-inchief,
as provided in Rules 4.02(a) and 4.02(, shall pitch to
the first batter or any substitute batter until such batter is put
out or reaches first base.


home has to present lineup card first, then the visitor. but the umpire doesn't give the copies to the other side until after verifying them.

You'd burn Matz in that situation, which is probably fine, but given rotations you're not fooling anyone with that. If you've got six guys you could presumably start Matz for one batter and sub in deGrom who was scheduled for tomorrow.

[Centerfield]

Ceetar wrote: home has to present lineup card first, then the visitor. but the umpire doesn't give the copies to the other side until after verifying them.

So if this is the case, you could publicly announce Steven Matz as your game 2 starter, have him throw in the bullpen, post the lineup on twitter, then submit a lineup card with Noah Syndergaard and the other team would be stuck. Yes?

[Ceetar]

Centerfield wrote: Ceetar wrote: home has to present lineup card first, then the visitor. but the umpire doesn't give the copies to the other side until after verifying them. So if this is the case, you could publicly announce Steven Matz as your game 2 starter, have him throw in the bullpen, post the lineup on twitter, then submit a lineup card with Noah Syndergaard and the other team would be stuck. Yes?

yup.

It'd be especially easy in the playoffs these days, because teams are squeezing every ounce of advantage they can, so even Syndergaard would probably only really pitch twice through the order, and you could still presumably use Matz that day. That would probably be the trick. Announce Thor-Matz to see if they'll put in their lefties, and then switch 'em. Let Matz start with the platoon advantage and leave him in to see if you get the opposition to put in their righty guys, probably in that key spot in the 5th or 6th, and then BOOM go to Thor.