Cespedes needs surgery

[Centerfield]

First of all, no one is killing Cespedes for speaking. I'm doing just the opposite. I'm giving him tons of credit for going against these dickheads and going public with the heel spurs.

Let's go back to that Sandy Alderson press conference a few months back. The one where he shakes his head and wonders why he isn't already back.

BECAUSE HE HAS DEBILITATING HEEL SPURS IN BOTH HIS FEET THAT ARE LIKELY GOING TO NEED MAJOR SURGERY. THAT'S WHY.

What a fucking dickhead. They told their star player to suck it up and play through pain, don't mention any of this to the media, then went and trashed him to the press and questioned his integrity.

I guarantee you they were shocked when Ces went public. That 24 hour gag order wasn't because Ricco had another event. It's because they had no idea what to say. So they sent Callaway out there to pretend he didn't know anything. The poor guy. It's like they see he's toast, so they don't mind making him look like an idiot.

So they regrouped, then came up with this bullshit story.

It doesn't hold water. Anyone willing to look can see this.

[metirish]

Centerfield wrote: First of all, no one is killing Cespedes for speaking. I'm doing just the opposite. I'm giving him tons of credit for going against these dickheads and going public with the heel spurs. Let's go back to that Sandy Alderson press conference a few months back. The one where he shakes his head and wonders why he isn't already back. BECAUSE HE HAS DEBILITATING HEEL SPURS IN BOTH HIS FEET THAT ARE LIKELY GOING TO NEED MAJOR SURGERY. THAT'S WHY. What a fucking dickhead. They told their star player to suck it up and play through pain, don't mention any of this to the media, then went and trashed him to the press and questioned his integrity. I guarantee you they were shocked when Ces went public. That 24 hour gag order wasn't because Ricco had another event. It's because they had no idea what to say. So they sent Callaway out there to pretend he didn't know anything. The poor guy. It's like they see he's toast, so they don't mind making him look like an idiot. So they regrouped, then came up with this bullshit story. It doesn't hold water. Anyone willing to look can see this.

I have not thought about it like this...damn, wow

[Ceetar]

Yes but he wasn't on the DL for the heel spurs. He was on the DL with the hip flexor. And how was Alderson expressing regret that he wasn't back yet asking him to play through pain? WHO do you think put Cespedes on the DL? How is that trashing him to the press and questioning his integrity? There's a difference between calling him out versus being frustrated he's injured.


What source do you have that suggests the Mets demanded Cespedes not talk, when the common sense answer is that why would he want to talk to a bunch of people that criticized him for driving fast cars and playing golf?

You know where that bit came from right? It was when the Mets were in Miami and the press was angry that the Mets didn't have Cespedes drive down from PSL to talk to them. Too much of this is coming from the press (the same for Beltran btw!)

Cespedes, 32, reported to spring training having changed his offseason workouts to try and keep his legs flexible and healthy.

Come on? You don't think this was them trying to keep his spurs healthy?

The Mets have been controlling the message on injuries for a year or two now. They've seemingly been trying to keep the message coming from the FO and not from the manager, and seem to like to only address something once. At least that's the trends I'm seeing.

Sandy called the situation chronic in the press conference a few months back. Mickey mentioned it before the series. But sure, the Mets didn't have any idea?

[Centerfield]

Of course the Mets knew. That's what I've been saying.

Each time I end up in an argument with you I tell myself it's the last time.

It's incredibly frustrating. I don't think you're even bothering to read what I write.

[Ceetar]

Centerfield wrote: Of course the Mets knew. That's what I've been saying. Each time I end up in an argument with you I tell myself it's the last time. It's incredibly frustrating. I don't think you're even bothering to read what I write.

Then why are we asserting that the Mets were blindsided by Cespedes mentioning the surgery? They weren't. They merely, as usual, were clinging to the conservative approach and hadn't talked about the surgery.

Hey reporters, can someone ask Cespedes if he felt this heel pain in the minors last week? Or do we have the DL to blame/thank for even knowing about this? If the Subway Series had been at Citi and they hadn't activated Cespedes, would he have just been scratched from a Vegas rehab game and then they'd have had this discussion privately?

[MFS62]

The obfuscation and misdirection by the Mets hierarchy has reached the point where they will soon hire Michael Cohen as their attorney.

Later

[Centerfield]

Ceetar wrote: Of course the Mets knew. That's what I've been saying. Each time I end up in an argument with you I tell myself it's the last time. It's incredibly frustrating. I don't think you're even bothering to read what I write. Then why are we asserting that the Mets were blindsided by Cespedes mentioning the surgery? They weren't. They merely, as usual, were clinging to the conservative approach and hadn't talked about the surgery. Hey reporters, can someone ask Cespedes if he felt this heel pain in the minors last week? Or do we have the DL to blame/thank for even knowing about this? If the Subway Series had been at Citi and they hadn't activated Cespedes, would he have just been scratched from a Vegas rehab game and then they'd have had this discussion privately?

Again, it helps to read my posts if you are going to engage in any sort of discussion, and especially if you are going to disagree with someone. As I stated above, this is what I think happened:

*Cespedes has heel spurs. The diagnosis was given long ago, certainly by 2017. The doctors recommended conservative methods, and if unsuccessful, surgery. Cespedes and the team are aware of this. They both elected conservative methods. No one says anything about the heel condition.

*2018. Conservative methods haven't worked and the problem persists. Cespedes has tried tried playing through pain and now wants surgery. The Mets want him to continue to play through pain. The Mets tell him to continue to say nothing about the heel condition and rehab to get back in 2018.

*Sandy Alderson, despite knowing the debilitating condition that Cespedes has, never makes it public. Instead, openly questions the integrity of his star player. A guy who has been playing through pain. Gives the strong implication that Cespedes is dogging it.

*Cespedes hears that. And is rightfully pissed. Decides that he's no longer going to play through pain, and that he's done listening to the Mets.

*In his first game back, he drops the bombshell. He needs surgery. Mets are caught off guard, not because they didn't know he needed surgery, but because they didn't think he'd go to the press and make it public.

*Mets don't know what to do. 24 hour gag order.

*A day later, the Mets spin it and say they are sending him to a specialist. They know what the diagnosis is. They know how it's going to end up. They are just trying to figure out a way to save face.

[Ceetar]

none of the things you said there are factually supported.

sorry, not 'none'. but starting with 'cespedes wants surgery'

[Centerfield]

none of the things you said there are factually supported. sorry, not 'none'. but starting with 'cespedes wants surgery'

You really don't read do you?

As I stated above, this is what I think happened:

[Centerfield]

As I stated above, this is what I think happened: *Cespedes has heel spurs. The diagnosis was given long ago, certainly by 2017. The doctors recommended conservative methods, and if unsuccessful, surgery. Cespedes and the team are aware of this. They both elected conservative methods. No one says anything about the heel condition. *2018. Conservative methods haven't worked and the problem persists. Cespedes has tried tried playing through pain and now wants surgery. The Mets want him to continue to play through pain. The Mets tell him to continue to say nothing about the heel condition and rehab to get back in 2018. *Sandy Alderson, despite knowing the debilitating condition that Cespedes has, never makes it public. Instead, openly questions the integrity of his star player. A guy who has been playing through pain. Gives the strong implication that Cespedes is dogging it. *Cespedes hears that. And is rightfully pissed. Decides that he's no longer going to play through pain, and that he's done listening to the Mets. *In his first game back, he drops the bombshell. He needs surgery. Mets are caught off guard, not because they didn't know he needed surgery, but because they didn't think he'd go to the press and make it public. *Mets don't know what to do. 24 hour gag order. *A day later, the Mets spin it and say they are sending him to a specialist. They know what the diagnosis is. They know how it's going to end up. They are just trying to figure out a way to save face.

Facts are bolded. My speculation is italicized.

A lot of bold in this post. And the speculation, in my opinion, is fairly reasonable.

[Ceetar]

those aren't facts that are bolded.

The Mets want him to continue to play through pain.

The Mets put him on the DL when the pain didn't go away. Both them and Cespedes to this point were in agreement about the course of action.

It's not on Alderson to make the specific condition public. That's a different argument about how forthcoming a team should be with a player's personal medical situation/injury. He DIDN'T question the integrity of the player, he expressed disappointment and frustration at the lack of recovery, which I'm sure Cespedes mimicked. There's no indication he was pissed. I think the only comment he made publicly the entire time was "I don't know if I could help even If I came back".

He didn't drop a bombshell upon returning, he was just more forthcoming than the Mets expected. And again, this is with MORE information. This was post-feeling pain again. He talked to the press before he talked to the team/doctors, because it was literally post game.

Again, gag order? Maybe? That's kinda fine. The Mets always got criticized for rushing to make statements without all the facts in a row, and like I inferred, they've been trying to focus the messaging, at least in regards to medical stuff. A "We'll address it via the front office at the next game" Is hardly a gag order, it was literally a direct and specific decision to address it via press conference versus leaking out tidbits from the various contacts of random reporters and risk sending mixed or conflicting messages.

[Centerfield]

Ceetar wrote: There's no indication he was pissed. I think the only comment he made publicly the entire time was "I don't know if I could help even If I came back".

“It’s bad that you’re doing your best and working hard every day and people are saying things that are not correct,” Cespedes said late Friday night through his interpreter. “I am not going to go down and lower my level to their level.”

[Ceetar]

'people'? what's the question?

I'm not denying that fans and the media were questioning his motives.

[Ceetar]

Anyway, Mets and Cespedes are conferring now about whether or not to get surgery.

I'd be surprised if we saw him again much before the ASB if he does get the surgery, so..
sign Harper? or is Machado the better get and a right-handed platoon friend for Bruce?

[ashie62]

I had calcification in my shoulders. Calcium "flakes" settle in the joint like a snow globe. The calcium on the bone is easily scraped.

The real issue is that the calcium hardens and usually settles in the joint itself.

There would likely be calcium in the joint that makes up the heel. Healthy flexors have to be cut to get it done.

Cutting flexors on an elite athlete is dicey at best

[Guest 41Forever]

Press conference with Ricco and Cespedes now. Having the surgery. Gone for eight-10 months.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Yup©, the story right here...

[Ceetar]

8-10, could be longer. separate surgeries for each heel (2-3 months apart, presumably so he can hobble around and isn't completely wheelchair bound)

I'd expect ASB to be the barometer.

contract insured, will get some back. won't reinvest. As is pretty obvious given they're out of it. 2019 plans are still being discussed (it won't be by these three anyway, so any assertions they made about it would be bunk anyway)

Pain progressed to the point that it was unmanageable through conservative methods.

[metirish]

Well, this sucks, we have seen the last of his best I would think...

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: Well, this sucks, we have seen the last of his best I would think...

Nah. This doesn't feel like one of those patch type surgeries. Plus this gives all the other hamstring/hip stuff time to fully heal and not be nagging. Better than ever when he returns.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Typical Mets bullshit, this should have been done months and months ago. And
now, with having separate surgeries, it adds another 3-4 months so we're looking
at like next August/September and then he has to get back in the swing of things.
If he's ever a star again, it probably won't be until 2020.

Good luck to Yo, feel better and heal quickly.

[batmagadanleadoff]

2020? He'll be 100 years old by then, coming off major surgery and having missed most of the last three seasons. Put a fork in him is more likely. Eight to ten months means a season and a half. Any second now, I'm gonna read here how great the Wilpons are and some ridiculous idea about how the Mets dont need to spend at luxury tax levels even though they play in the nation's largest market. Money doesn't matter, especially with these genius owners because if anybody can repeat what the Cubs and Astros pulled off, it's obviously Jeff Wilpon. Pivot Jeff, pivot!

[TransMonk]

Yeah, anything is possible, but I would probably bet on "put a fork in him" over "better than ever".

I think it would be foolish to rely on contributions from him before 2020 and even then, I doubt we will be getting anything close to 2015-16 Cespedes.

[Guest d'Kong76]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Any second now, I'm gonna read here how great the Wilpons are and some ridiculous idea about how the Mets dont need to spend at luxury tax levels even though they play in the nation's largest market.

Why paint us here like that? It's mean, inaccurate and insulting.

[batmagadanleadoff]

If the Mets shouldn't be spending at the luxury tax level, then nobody should. Which means that nobody should be signing Stanton or Harper or Machado at market rates. What's the difference where the comment appears? Is that the defense for all these years of insulting Wilpon defending?

[Guest d'Kong76]

Don't fluffernut it, you labeled the place in advance and you're flat wrong.
There's no pro-Wilpon stuff being typed here. Like ever.

[ashie62]

TransMonk wrote: Yeah, anything is possible, but I would probably bet on "put a fork in him" over "better than ever". I think it would be foolish to rely on contributions from him before 2020 and even then, I doubt we will be getting anything close to 2015-16 Cespedes.

Hopefully Cespedes can be a normal mobile person after surgery

Elite Sports? Put a fork in it. He'd be 34

[TransMonk]

Ashie62 wrote: He'd be 34

If you believe that he isn't actually older than he claims.

[batmagadanleadoff]

d'Kong76 wrote: Don't fluffernut it, you labeled the place in advance and you're flat wrong. There's no pro-Wilpon stuff being typed here. Like ever.

Oh, okay then. I apologize for imagining things. /rolls eyes till they shoot out of my sockets and land in somebody's soup two counties over.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Ashie62 wrote: He'd be 34

2020 will be Yoenis's 35 year old season, the way these things are calculated. And that's if he didn't pull the Cuban baseball scam about lying about his age. Plus he'll have missed most of the last three seasons due to major surgery. That's like 75 in baseball years.