The Florry Story

[Centerfield]

Cespedes can jump off a pier as far as I’m concerned Though as a motherly figure, I hope he can Swim

I don't get this at all. The guy is hurt. We can be upset that he's hurt but I don't see why we would be upset at him.

Plus this is Beltran all over again. The guy is hurt. Jeffy clearly thinks the injury is not as bad as he says it is. Tells his lieutenants to send a message through the media.

Mets GM Sandy Alderson talked to reporters on Thursday about the injury to Cespedes, “I’m a little surprised it has taken as long as it has. … I’m hopeful he’ll be ready to go in the not-too-distant future.”

You know what? Fuck you Sandy. The guy is hurt. He rushed back too early last year, and he ended up getting fucked. He rushed back this year, and went back on the shelf. So I'm thinking maybe we try listening to him and wait until he's healed.

I don't know who the new GM will be. But give me the guy who will tell ownership to go to hell and defend our guy:

"You know what? Fuck all you guys who think Cespedes is dogging it. The guy is hurt. He's working his ass off to get back. When will that be? When he's fucking recovered. Why would anyone think he's dogging it? He played out of position in 2015 for the good of the team. He played hurt throughout that postseason. He tried playing hurt last year and it blew up on him. He even tried rushing back this year and it set him back weeks. So maybe everyone chill the fuck out and let him and our medical staff tell us when he's ready to go."

[bmfc1]

CF is right. You're not getting any quotes from management about Jay Bruce's long recovery period. Sandy didn't help it by suggesting that Yoenis was dogging it.

[smg58]

I'm with you on this CF.

As for first base: our best prospect is a first baseman currently in AAA after ripping the leather off the ball in AA. That's a non-starter, or at least it should be.

[Ceetar]

I think the first base thing might just be a temporary "Let's get you back this year to play some games." thing. At least I hope. I'd actually worry more about the quick pivots and movements at first more than the outfield. Let him slowly lumber after balls out there if he needs.

[Centerfield]

A big part of my problem with Sandy is how much he was willing to spew the Wilpon rhetoric.

Mets GM Sandy Alderson talked to reporters on Thursday about the injury to Cespedes, “I’m a little surprised it has taken as long as it has. … I’m hopeful he’ll be ready to go in the not-too-distant future.”

Hey guys. Cespedes is dogging it. He's a fucking bum.

“Honestly, sometimes I think we’re a little too cautious, frankly, with how we approach injuries,” Alderson said.

These spoiled fucking athletes should get off their ass and start earning the money we're paying them.

Cespedes has a contract that pays him $29 million a season through 2020, and Alderson, in comments almost 10 days ago, seemed to question the wisdom of the Mets’ decision — actually, his decision — to sign him to a four-year, $110 million contract after the 2016 season. “Some people are more susceptible to injuries than others,” Alderson said. “Maybe you could say, ‘Well, gee, susceptible to injury, shouldn’t that have entered into some decision in the past?’ And the answer to that would be yes, in all probability. That all gets taken into account.”

See what happens when you spend money? You get a lazy-ass dog who sits around collecting paychecks for nothing.

You're kidding yourself if you can't see the Wilpon coming out in those statements.

[Guest 41Forever]

So, from a communications perspective, it would benefit both Cespedes and the Mets for him to talk to the media. Change the narrative. Talk about the injury, what the problems are, why the recovery period is long and express that he's excited to get back and contribute. Wright has done this periodically. I'm stunned that they didn't do this with Cespedes in Miami. An answer-all-questions presser can do wonders when there is nothing to hide, which is what I'm sure is the situation here.

[Ceetar]

You don't think it's possible the old white marine might have similar takes?

The last one is confusing. I can't tell if we're criticizing the Wilpons for not spending on the team or for deciding who to spend on? I think that's just one of those nothing 'talk about process and say nothing' quotes from Alderson. Unless this is a jibe back at them. Are the Wilpons asking Sandy "Hey, is Cespedes ready to go yet or what?" and Sandy's like, "uh, maybe we shouldn't re-sign guys with this type of injury?"

The other two are annoying. Particularly the second one, though that's again part of the damn old-school "just rub some dirt on it and play!" stuff that could very well be Sandy's own beliefs as well.

41Forever wrote: So, from a communications perspective, it would benefit both Cespedes and the Mets for him to talk to the media. Change the narrative. Talk about the injury, what the problems are, why the recovery period is long and express that he's excited to get back and contribute. Wright has done this periodically. I'm stunned that they didn't do this with Cespedes in Miami. An answer-all-questions presser can do wonders when there is nothing to hide, which is what I'm sure is the situation here.

You're bashing me constantly in not so subtle racist ways, let me open up to you and talk to you and give you quotes? nah, fuck that. I get that it's self-perpetuating in that the media bashes a guy and that guy takes it personally and then doesn't want to talk to them and then they get pissed he's not opening up to them and bash the guy and...

but let's put the pressure on the click-bait MetsBeat to gives us some real honest reporting and not "oh, guess they have to bash the guy since he won't talk".

[Edgy MD]

Are we on a new topic here? I think we are.

[Guest 41Forever]

Ceetar wrote: 41Forever wrote: So, from a communications perspective, it would benefit both Cespedes and the Mets for him to talk to the media. Change the narrative. Talk about the injury, what the problems are, why the recovery period is long and express that he's excited to get back and contribute. Wright has done this periodically. I'm stunned that they didn't do this with Cespedes in Miami. An answer-all-questions presser can do wonders when there is nothing to hide, which is what I'm sure is the situation here. You're bashing me constantly in not so subtle racist ways, let me open up to you and talk to you and give you quotes? nah, fuck that. I get that it's self-perpetuating in that the media bashes a guy and that guy takes it personally and then doesn't want to talk to them and then they get pissed he's not opening up to them and bash the guy and... but let's put the pressure on the click-bait MetsBeat to gives us some real honest reporting and not "oh, guess they have to bash the guy since he won't talk".

Then you let other people control your narrative. MetsBeat is going to be writing about it no matter what, so you want to make sure it is your narrative they are advancing. The more you do to drive the message -- and can provide for the reporters -- the better off you are. Trust me on this, saying "F 'em" doesn't work. They could even pick one reporter they are comfortable with, let that person post the story and the others will follow.

[Centerfield]

I agree that Cespedes (and for his part, Beltran) could alleviate a lot by taking matters into their own hands and speaking directly to the press. But you are asking someone who is an athlete (not a correspondent), to speak to the press in his second language, after they have already seemingly made up their minds that they are against him, and with the full support of his employer. Just a bullshit situation to be in.

And although Cespedes could certainly help himself here, the big issue is that he's being put in that situation in the first place. Absolute classless, bullshit, dickless assholes running this organization. And if Sandy actually feels this (and isn't just giving the company line) then fuck him even more.

And I don't think the underlying message from those quotes could be any more clear. The Wilpons think he's a bum. They think that these athletes are babied too much as it is. And they felt public pressure to sign Cespedes, and now all he does is get hurt all the time. See, they were right all along.

[Ceetar]

41Forever wrote: Then you let other people control your narrative. MetsBeat is going to be writing about it no matter what, so you want to make sure it is your narrative they are advancing. The more you do to drive the message -- and can provide for the reporters -- the better off you are. Trust me on this, saying "F 'em" doesn't work. They could even pick one reporter they are comfortable with, let that person post the story and the others will follow.

Meh, it's not on Cespedes to care about how the media portrays him. Even when he's healthy and fine the MetsBeat is all "why is he playing golf so much? Maybe he shouldn't buy such flashy cars?" It doesn't matter if someone ( Isabel Vincent and Melissa Klein ) does a very well written and researched piece on Yoenis in Cuba coming from nothing and how he's enjoying the freedom of America. It's literally a story of the so-called American Dream and they still bashed him being too flashy.

The media doesn't need to be all "I don't know why you make me do this to you Yoenis" about it.

[Guest d'Kong76]

I don't know, when 41F gets on a roll he sounds like a polished professional purveyor
of promotional propoganda. It's a baseball team, not capitol hill or whatever here.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I imagine that many of the same rules apply, though. He makes a good point that the Mets haven't been good at controlling their messaging. It's not something that I particularly care about, until and unless it has some kind of impact on the results on the field. But for their own sake, the Mets should try to get better at this kind of stuff.

[Edgy MD]

And/or player agents should put their players in the hands of publicists who help them on their personal message.

[Ceetar]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I imagine that many of the same rules apply, though. He makes a good point that the Mets haven't been good at controlling their messaging. It's not something that I particularly care about, until and unless it has some kind of impact on the results on the field. But for their own sake, the Mets should try to get better at this kind of stuff.

It's just that it's an impossible task. The Wilpons get criticized constantly for not talking until they talk and everyone remembers they're garbage people and then they want them to shut up again.

The Mets open up about injuries and then get killed when those injuries don't heal as fast as initially prognosticated. But if they're not clear on injuries they're hiding something.

They literally can't win. It's why I wish they'd lean into things sometimes, but the Wilpons are too old-fashioned/stick in the muds to do that. Like have a "doors open" night to mock the bullpen gate thing. "On September 10th, the Mets will 'accidentally leave all the doors open to all the Citi Field clubs'"

[Guest 41Forever]

Centerfield wrote: I agree that Cespedes (and for his part, Beltran) could alleviate a lot by taking matters into their own hands and speaking directly to the press. But you are asking someone who is an athlete (not a correspondent), to speak to the press in his second language, after they have already seemingly made up their minds that they are against him, and with the full support of his employer. Just a bullshit situation to be in. And although Cespedes could certainly help himself here, the big issue is that he's being put in that situation in the first place. Absolute classless, bullshit, dickless assholes running this organization. And if Sandy actually feels this (and isn't just giving the company line) then fuck him even more. And I don't think the underlying message from those quotes could be any more clear. The Wilpons think he's a bum. They think that these athletes are babied too much as it is. And they felt public pressure to sign Cespedes, and now all he does is get hurt all the time. See, they were right all along.

Ceetar wrote: Meh, it's not on Cespedes to care about how the media portrays him. Even when he's healthy and fine the MetsBeat is all "why is he playing golf so much? Maybe he shouldn't buy such flashy cars?" It doesn't matter if someone ( Isabel Vincent and Melissa Klein ) does a very well written and researched piece on Yoenis in Cuba coming from nothing and how he's enjoying the freedom of America. It's literally a story of the so-called American Dream and they still bashed him being too flashy. The media doesn't need to be all "I don't know why you make me do this to you Yoenis" about it.

I'm going to disagree. You are both thinking logically and not in a communications/message management way.

First, Cespedes wouldn't be in this by himself. He's got an agent -- who has a vested interest in his client being successful -- who has a media team who would handle the logistics, such as the translator, and would work with him to develop talking points and show how to best answer questions. This is their job. Cespedes is paying them handsomely for their services. The Mets -- who I think should be the ones running such a presser -- also have people on staff to do this.

A person can argue that Cespedes is in this situation in the first place because they didn't step in and do this sooner. Now it's damage control.

There are many people who should be caring -- deeply -- about how Cespedes is portrayed in the media, including Cespedes himself. I suspect he -- and his agent -- enjoys his endorsement deals. The Mets should be caring about selling tickets, t-shirts, canary compression sleeves and such. Running down the reputation of your top player is a bad business decision.

Edgy, sorry of this is hijacking the thread.

Edited July 13, 2018 by Guest

[Centerfield]

d'Kong76 wrote: I don't know, when 41F gets on a roll he sounds like a polished professional purveyor of promotional propoganda. It's a baseball team, not capitol hill or whatever here.

I agree with this. At least for me, when I criticize the ownership (or anyone else) for bad behavior, his immediate response is not to focus on the bad behavior, but how to spin it to the public so that it sounds less bad. It's so reflexive and instinctive I don't think he notices it.

Beyond disagreeing about any subject, and I am not meaning to be inciteful here, but I really think this is a poor reflection on the character of a person.

[Centerfield]

41Forever wrote: The Mets should be caring about selling tickets, t-shirts, canary compression sleeves and such. Running down the reputation of your top player is a bad business decision.

This is so frustrating. Yes, I agree that it's a bad business decision. The Wilpons haven't shows that they're very good at running a baseball team.

But can we just take a moment and acknowledge that running down the reputation of your top (or any) player is just a shit thing to do. Unless your guy is actually dogging it, trashing him because of some latent resentment is wrong. It's morally wrong.

I don't know why this is so hard for you to admit.

Sometimes it's not about the message. Or perception. It's about actions, and things you should and shouldn't do. Even if no one is watching.

Sometimes there is just the right thing to do, and a shit thing to do. And you shouldn't do the shit thing because that makes you a shit person.

[Guest 41Forever]

Centerfield wrote: d'Kong76 wrote: I don't know, when 41F gets on a roll he sounds like a polished professional purveyor of promotional propoganda. It's a baseball team, not capitol hill or whatever here. I agree with this. At least for me, when I criticize the ownership (or anyone else) for bad behavior, his immediate response is not to focus on the bad behavior, but how to spin it to the public so that it sounds less bad. It's so reflexive and instinctive I don't think he notices it. Beyond disagreeing about any subject, and I am not meaning to be inciteful here, but I really think this is a poor reflection on the character of a person.

And I believe I always preface it by saying, "From a communications perspective, here's what they should do." You are coming at it from a perspective of an angry fan. I was contributing to the discussion by conveying how the team should handle it professionally.

And you are most certainly trying to incite and insult. Calling me a "shit person" also could be considered a poor reflection on the character of a person. I've disagreed with you, but I've never said anything like that.

[Centerfield]

I'm not calling you a shit person. I'm calling the Wilpons shit persons.

I'm saying you never agree with that. You never focus on that.

[Centerfield]

Our arguments basically follow the same path.

CF: Wow, the Wilpons did this shitty thing. They are shit people.

41F: They should really speak to the press in this way. That way they will seem less shitty.

My point is you never focus on the shitty behavior. Only on making the shitty behavior seem less shitty.

I'm asking you this, this one time, admit, that trashing your player who is trying to get back from injury is a shit thing to do. Not to focus on perception, or give me a lesson on branding, but to say yes, CF. Trashing your player and insinuating that he is dogging it is a shit thing to do.

Can you admit that?

[Guest 41Forever]

I said exactly that, but without the vulgarity. I said running down the reputation of your top player is a bad thing.

You have a visceral hatred of the Wilpons. I get it. I don't like everything they do, either. But I've lived through the M. Donald Grant era, so I know that things can be far worse. If you don't want engage in a discussion of communications practice then jump down to the next post. I thought some people might find it interesting.

[Guest cooby]

My only problem wit cespedes is that he seems to have disappeared. You guys read the local rags; if I’m wrong I will certainly take my pier jumping comment back.

[Centerfield]

41Forever wrote: I said exactly that, but without the vulgarity. I said running down the reputation of your top player is a bad thing. You have a visceral hatred of the Wilpons. I get it. I don't like everything they do, either. But I've lived through the M. Donald Grant era, so I know that things can be far worse. If you don't want engage in a discussion of communications practice then jump down to the next post. I thought some people might find it interesting.

No. You said it was a bad business decision. Do you not see the difference?

[Guest 41Forever]

Centerfield wrote: 41Forever wrote: I said exactly that, but without the vulgarity. I said running down the reputation of your top player is a bad thing. You have a visceral hatred of the Wilpons. I get it. I don't like everything they do, either. But I've lived through the M. Donald Grant era, so I know that things can be far worse. If you don't want engage in a discussion of communications practice then jump down to the next post. I thought some people might find it interesting. No. You said it was a bad business decision. Do you not see the difference?

Have the Wilpons actually said anything about Cespedes, or are you basing that on something the former general manager said, and assumed he was following their marching orders?

You certainly don't need my affirmation to hate anyone. And I can't figure out why you are making it personal.

Right now Cespedes has a problem. I was noting how he got there and recommending how he and the Mets should solve it. I guess I look at stuff from a problem-solving approach. I'm quirky that way.

[Vic Sage]

stretching for a throw at 1b is nowhere near as aggravating of his sort of injury as running hard after a line drive down the line into LF. Since we have him at big money for 2 (?) more years, it behooves us to find a way to keep him on the field. I'm good with a move to 1B as one way to do that.

[Edgy MD]

To the extent that stretching at first is an aggravation, I'd imagine it's more of a strain on the groin than the hammy.

#biomechanics

[Centerfield]

41Forever wrote: 41Forever wrote: I said exactly that, but without the vulgarity. I said running down the reputation of your top player is a bad thing. You have a visceral hatred of the Wilpons. I get it. I don't like everything they do, either. But I've lived through the M. Donald Grant era, so I know that things can be far worse. If you don't want engage in a discussion of communications practice then jump down to the next post. I thought some people might find it interesting. No. You said it was a bad business decision. Do you not see the difference? Have the Wilpons actually said anything about Cespedes, or are you basing that on something the former general manager said, and assumed he was following their marching orders? You certainly don't need my affirmation to hate anyone. And I can't figure out why you are making it personal. Right now Cespedes has a problem. I was noting how he got there and recommending how he and the Mets should solve it. I guess I look at stuff from a problem-solving approach. I'm quirky that way.

You know, it really is shocking. How much you will dance around a simple question. Spinning and spinning and spinning, but never agreeing to (what I think) is a basic, irrefutable, truth.

Whether it's the Wilpons or Alderson who believe it, it is a real shit thing to trash your own player, accuse him of dogging it, and suggest that his contract was a bad signing.

You have suggested ways they can spin it, you have suggested ways Cespedes could have diffused it, you have claimed to have already agreed with me (you hadn't), and when called out, asked why I need your affirmation anyway (I don't). You have called into question why I'm "making it personal" and now you claim to be a problem solver who is "quirky".

But you have never, not once, despite six responses in this thread, despite me specifically asking you a very direct question multiple times, ever said "You're right CF, that is a really shitty thing that they did."

If you believe that, if you agree with that statement, it's incomprehensible why you resist saying so. It makes no sense.

I mean, I guess maybe you don't agree with me. That's ok. Then own it.

"Actually, CF, I disagree. I think it's totally cool to for an organization to make unwarranted attacks on their player's integrity. This is fine."

I think I'd be better with that. At least that's an honest answer.

[Centerfield]

And vulgarity? Really? Do my bad words offend you?

All I know is this. When I see injustice, I say:

"Holy crap, look at this fucked up bullshit. That shit needs to end right now."

You say:

"Wow, this is a shame. If those guys had just done X, they could have continued to do fucked up bullshit, without looking like they did fucked up bullshit. And should we really be saying "fucked up bullshit"? I mean, those are really bad words."

[batmagadanleadoff]

And all Jeff Wilpon has to do to be the best executive in MLB is to learn how to pivot. Mr. Bluebird on my shoulder.