This cannot go on much longer.

[Guest 41Forever]

Nymr83 wrote: Thanks for posting the whole thing and denying Verducci his clicks. Come on 41, you should know better!

Fixed.

But on a technical aside, how do you guys change the link to make it look like a hot link -- say, the headline -- and not the URL?

[Benjamin Grimm]

Paste the headline. Highlight it and click the URL button. In the tags that appear, after URL, add an = and then the hyperlink.

The Free Agent Market is Frozen Because the Players Bargained for Luxury, not Labor

[Guest 41Forever]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Paste the headline. Highlight it and click the URL button. In the tags that appear, after URL, add an = and then the hyperlink. The Free Agent Market is Frozen Because the Players Bargained for Luxury, not Labor

Thank you!

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: 'Mentions younger players are more valuable but doesn't mention anything about minor leaguers or years of control or any of that." -- Because it's not relevant to the topic, nor have those parameters changed recently. it's relevant to his argument that owners are increasingly preferring the younger talent, and that a large portion of the productive players aren't even eligible to negotiate what they're worth. "Doesn't mention the rising revenue" --- Yes he does, twice in fact. "... and that contracts shouldn't compare to 2008." -- He's not (only) comparing the numbers on the contracts, he's comparing the mindset on offering deals I missed it I guess, but he's directly comparing numbers and the mindset he's ascribing is strictly a financial one. But that's hardly the only thing to consider. "Different run scoring environment too. record home runs, juiced balls." -- Run scoring in 2007 was a shade higher than in 2017. HRs are up compared to a decade ago but run scoring is not. right right, but Chacin and Perez gave up homers and walked too many. He at least found reasonably similar players in this comparison. They're riskier players today. "Of course a guy like Chacin is going to get less than Perez did, Perez was three years younger!" -- But not merely 'less', Chacin signed for two years rather than three at a rate barely half as much despite it being a full ten years later

yes, but he's three years older! that was part of his other argument. He's also not as good, and was never as good. He's picking arbitrary end points to make them seem more similar at this juncture than they are. I mean, Perez wasn't a great signing. They really blew it on pitching that offseason all around the board, but that entire article is cherry picking and trying to ascribe an overall philosophy across the board, especially just citing a handful of examples that barely, if at all, make your point is circumspect. Notice how he didn't mention Tyler Chatwood? Because it breaks his narrative.

[Edgy MD]

If they really blew it on pitching all around the board, then that's the argument. They don't want to blow it again.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: If they really blew it on pitching all around the board, then that's the argument. They don't want to blow it again.

the Mets still just might sign a mid-tier guy, as reported. They've also got lots of pitchers. I'm not sure that equates to the Livan Hernandez/Tim Redding trust in Maine/Perez and maybe try Parnell as a starter mess. That was also the Putz/K-Rod offseason, and actually paying for relievers is something that's very much happening these days more than those days.

[Edgy MD]

Yes, they still might. If I had to bet, I'd guess they will.

[Frayed Knot]

Ceetar wrote: yes, but he's three years older! that was part of his other argument. He's also not as good, and was never as good. He's picking arbitrary end points to make them seem more similar at this juncture than they are ...

But the point is that a similar-ish, if you will, pitcher is getting a deal worth only 63% when measured by AAV and just over 40% by total value.
That's a BIG difference and even bigger when you add in that the newer one is after ten years of revenue and salary increases.

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: Ceetar wrote: yes, but he's three years older! that was part of his other argument. He's also not as good, and was never as good. He's picking arbitrary end points to make them seem more similar at this juncture than they are ... But the point is that a similar-ish, if you will, pitcher is getting a deal worth only 63% when measured by AAV and just over 40% by total value. That's a BIG difference and even bigger when you add in that the newer one is after ten years of revenue and salary increases.

maybe they're not actually that similar-ish. Maybe there IS something that we've learned, statistically, that devalues Chacin.

Hell, these guys look similar but one signed a contract more akin to Perez'

[Frayed Knot]

Ceetar wrote: Maybe there IS something that we've learned, statistically, that devalues Chacin.

Which was the major part of Verducci's point!!!!

[ashie62]

Lance Lynn. A horse who eats innings. He is getting cheaper everyday.

[nymr83]

Ashie62 wrote: Lance Lynn. A horse who eats innings. He is getting cheaper everyday.

We don't know that, we only know that he remains unsigned. maybe his agent is telling hi to wait for Darvish to sign so the losers on Darvish will open up their wallets.

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: Ceetar wrote: Maybe there IS something that we've learned, statistically, that devalues Chacin. Which was the major part of Verducci's point!!!!

something that devalues Chacin but NOT Perez is my point.

Anyway, Verducci is the king of poorly researched points that are taken as conclusions. He's got a whole effect named for it.

[Frayed Knot]

Currently unsigned -- and this isn't even the complete list, merely the most familiar names and those who have, at least more or less, been starting players recently

Pedro Alvarez (age 31)
Jake Arrieta (31)
Jose Bautista (37)
Clay Buchholz (33)
Melky Cabrera (33)
Chris Carter (31)
Andrew Cashner (31)
Alex Cobb (30)
Yu Darvish (31)
R A Dickey (43)
Lucas Duda (32)
A J Ellis (36)
Yunel Escobar (31)
Andre Ethiker (35)
Jamie Garcia (31)
Matt Garza (34)
Carlos Gomez (32)
Carlos Gonzalez (32)
A J Griffin (30)
J J Hardy (35)
Greg Holland (32)
Matt Holiday (38)
Eric Hosmer (28)
John Faso (34)
Jon Jay (32)
Ubaldo Jimenez (34)
John Lackey (39)
Adam Lind (34)
Francisco Liriano (34)
Jonathan Lucroy (31)
Lance Lynn (30)
J D Martinez (30)
Cameron Maybin (30)
Wade Miley (31)
Logan Morrison (30)
Mike Moustakas (29)
Mike Napoli (36)
Ricky Nolasco (35)
Bud Norris (32)
Eduardo Nunez (30)
Mike Pelfrey (34)
Oliver Perez (36)
Brandon Phillips (36)
Colby Rasmus (31)
Ben Revere (29)
Mark Reynolds (34)
Sergio Romo (34)
Bruce Rondon (27)
Trevor Rosenthal (27)
Anibal Sanchez (33)
Michael Saunders (31)
Geovany Soto (35)
Drew Storen (30)
Huston Street (34)
Ichiro Suzuki (44)
Chris Tillman (29)
Chase Utley (39)
Jason Vargas (35)
Neil Walker (32)
Jayson Werth (38)
Chris Young (34)



http://www.espn.com/mlb/freeagents

[Guest 41Forever]

That's a bigger list than I thought! But about a third of those guys might be done -- such as Ichiro, Utley, Dickey...

[Benjamin Grimm]

If the Mets don't go "second tier" with a starter, there are certainly some "third tier" and "fourth tier" starters available. And no, I'm not advocating for that, but it might be better than nothing. Maybe.

I can't remember the last time I thought of Mike Pelfrey. I didn't know he was still around.

[Edgy MD]

I'm thinking about some Jon Jay.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Jake Arrieta is only 31?

[Centerfield]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Jake Arrieta is only 31?

Pretty young. I think the Civil War beard makes him look older.

[HahnSolo]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: If the Mets don't go "second tier" with a starter, there are certainly some "third tier" and "fourth tier" starters available. And no, I'm not advocating for that, but it might be better than nothing. Maybe. I can't remember the last time I thought of Mike Pelfrey. I didn't know he was still around.

When I thought about 3rd/4th tier guys my eyes went to Liriano. But then I looked at his last two years stats and it looks like he's shot.

Pelf is only 34. Wow.

[Lefty Specialist]

Boy, you could put together a damned good team from that unsigned talent.

[Vic Sage]

you know something, as long as we're rounding up the usual suspects, i wouldn't be upset by another go-round with Mr. Dickey!

[Frayed Knot]

Lefty Specialist wrote: Boy, you could put together a damned good team from that unsigned talent.

The Las Vegas Golden Knights!!
The expansion hockey team of that name has already set records for first year team wins/points/etc. This one could do the same.

[MFS62]

Vic Sage wrote: you know something, as long as we're rounding up the usual suspects, i wouldn't be upset by another go-round with Mr. Dickey!

Where do I sign up for that?

Later

[Frayed Knot]

MFS62 wrote: Vic Sage wrote: you know something, as long as we're rounding up the usual suspects, i wouldn't be upset by another go-round with Mr. Dickey! Where do I sign up for that?

With Ferrari, the fat gent in the corner of the 'Blue Parrot'
After all, the buying and selling of human beings is Casablanca's leading commodity.

[MFS62]

you know something, as long as we're rounding up the usual suspects, i wouldn't be upset by another go-round with Mr. Dickey! Where do I sign up for that? With Ferrari, the fat gent in the corner of the 'Blue Parrot' After all, the buying and selling of human beings is Casablanca's leading commodity.

Well, it would be Dickey's second time with the club. So we could ...... wait for it ....... play it again, Sam.*

Later

* i know, I know. Its wasn't really said in the movie, but people think it was.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=A0LEV1GTgXtaCTQAIwpXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyY2cyb2trBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjUwMjZfMQRzZWMDc2M-?qid=20060611102318AACqtiK

[Edgy MD]

Now see, I was expecting some variation on the "That's what she said" yoke.

[ashie62]

I am pining for Carlos Gomez. That would complete the Johan Santana trade. I believe Pelfrey, Humber and Mulvey are finished.

[Edgy MD]

Pelfrey wasn't part of the Johan Santana trade. Deolis Guerra, still bringing it with the Angels, was the fourth piece of that package.

Pelf took a high school coaching job this winter.

[MFS62]

Edgy MD wrote: Now see, I was expecting some variation on the "That's what she said" yoke.

Now see, I was expecting something more appropriate for a Casablanca reference.

Later