Shall We Deign to Discuss Jason Kipnis?

[Edgy MD]

A half season of depressed statistical achievement last year shouldn't be enough to take all the bloom off of the rose that is Cleveland secondbaseman Jason Kipnis.

A mid-career lefty swinger with good power for a secondbaseman, whose price is starting to get steep for his midwestern trading town team, with brown hair parted way over to the side, and with a single-team résumé, he's about as analogous a comparison as you can get for Neil Walker. Plus he comes from Mickey Callaway's old team.

Jason Kipnis ... your new Mets secondbaseman?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Yes, I like him better than Walker. I'm not sure what his deal was this year but he appeared to have missed some time with an injury.

I conflate him by the way with Detroit's second baseman Ian Kinsler. He's also good but had a bad year, is older, and still under contract.

[Ceetar]

I like Kipnis. his two down seasons also had a low BABIP so maybe a bit of bad luck there.

battled a hamstring injury a bunch last year looks like, including returning to the DL mere days after activation. (So clearly he's already a Met right?)

His BB% has been slowly declining year by year, but a change of pace/coach might help that. If it does he's a really excellent player and worth well more than the $13 per for 2 that he's owed.

His salary jumped 4 million and it seems like the Indians might not really need him in the infield. They experimented with him in center last year upon his return. (Only the Mets would take an infielder recovering from a hamstring injury and throw him in center)



Dammit, this is a really amazing fit and I want Kippy now. Wonder what it takes.

[Edgy MD]

That's the rub. What do you think will reel him in? Wheeler?

[Guest 41Forever]

Edgy MD wrote: That's the rub. What do you think will reel him in? Wheeler?

Do you think Wheeler has more value than Gsellman? After the injuries and inconsistency I fear Wheeler is looked at as more of a project than a chip.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: That's the rub. What do you think will reel him in? Wheeler?

I suck at projecting this stuff. I don't have a real gauge on Cleveland's financial situation and their feeling on him. If they're really over him and want out from the commitment, I imagine Wheeler does it.

If they think he's worth more than that and are willing to be more fluid with infield roles and try to make it fit, i imagine it'll take two-ish good prospects?

[Benjamin Grimm]

Joel Sherman, in the New York Post, suggests Robert Gsellman and Luis Guillorme for Kipnis.

[Edgy MD]

41Forever wrote: Edgy MD wrote: That's the rub. What do you think will reel him in? Wheeler? Do you think Wheeler has more value than Gsellman? After the injuries and inconsistency I fear Wheeler is looked at as more of a project than a chip.

And after recurring hamstring injuries, two consecutive seasons of diminished performances, and a salary bump due, with three seasons (or two plus a buyout) locked in, I would think Kipnis' contract would be looked on as a declining asset.

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Joel Sherman, in the New York Post, suggests Robert Gsellman and Luis Guillorme for Kipnis.

I would change that "and" to an "or" if I were Shermy. If you want to spice up a Gsellman offer, I'd choose somebody a little (or a lot) more out there than Guillorme. Dale Burdick or somebody.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Do you think that Luis Guillorme alone would get it done?

[Edgy MD]

Probably not, but I think he'd be more of a starting point than a throw-in.

[smg58]

Kipnis doesn't have a firm position right now with Cleveland. The Indians moved Jose Ramirez to second in Kipnis' absence and were happy with him there. The weak hitting they got from their third baseman should have put Kipnis back at second (the long winning steak notwithstanding), but he wound up spending more time in the outfield when he returned. He strikes me as being an undervalued player in Cleveland right now. Of course, our current manager knows Kipnis well, and that will probably affect how interested the Mets are in Kipnis.

His defensive values dipped in his down offensive years, which is consistent with playing hurt. But a healthy Jason Kipnis is easily a top-10 second baseman, if not a top-5 one.

If the Indians were OK with Gsellman and Guillorme, then I would be as well.

[Centerfield]

I don't really know him well. Is the difference between Kipnis and Neil Walker worth giving up talent for him?

Looks like Walker is a tick better offensively, but also a year or two older.

[Edgy MD]

Hey, it's not like Cleveland would sell us a secondbaseman who was about to turn into a lemon, right?

[Ceetar]

Centerfield wrote: I don't really know him well. Is the difference between Kipnis and Neil Walker worth giving up talent for him? Looks like Walker is a tick better offensively, but also a year or two older.

Kipnis adds some baserunning value as well, but they're very similar over the last 3.

Walker probably erred in taking the QO last season. I wonder what he'd be looking for this offseason. I'd hesitate about signing him to 4years or something, but if you could get him on a Kipnis like deal in lengths/$ it's probably not wise to spend prospects for Kipnis.

On the other hand, Kipnis has some improvement potential over that, if you could boost his walk rate to what it was earlier in his career. If a new hitting coach can do that, you get more value out of the position and less long-term commitment maybe?

Or, we can do both and get Kipnis for CF?

[Edgy MD]

One thing about Walker, after his trade to Milwaukee, he totally lived up to his name, walking like a total fiend. It really helped salvage his season statistically, putting up an on-base percentage 70 points higher than he did with the Mets.

I never really warmed to Neil, probably due at least in part to his hair being very Jeff Wilpon-y. Not particularly fair, I know, but if we could have the Neil Walker the Brewers got, well, sign me up.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Centerfield wrote: I don't really know him well. Is the difference between Kipnis and Neil Walker worth giving up talent for him? Looks like Walker is a tick better offensively, but also a year or two older.

I was thinking that one key difference is that Kipnis can play center field, and we've heard that the Mets need more versatility because of all the relief pitchers they plan to carry. (I hope that report is false!)

I just looked it up, and in his seven-year career, Kipnis has played 11 games in the outfield, all in center field, and all in 2017. In all 11 games, he started in center, but only finished one of them.

[Valadius]

Would love to have him.

[Frayed Knot]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Centerfield wrote: I don't really know him well. Is the difference between Kipnis and Neil Walker worth giving up talent for him? Looks like Walker is a tick better offensively, but also a year or two older. I was thinking that one key difference is that Kipnis can play center field, and we've heard that the Mets need more versatility because of all the relief pitchers they plan to carry. (I hope that report is false!) I just looked it up, and in his seven-year career, Kipnis has played 11 games in the outfield, all in center field, and all in 2017. In all 11 games, he started in center, but only finished one of them.

Kipnis in CF -- or in any of the OF positions for that matter -- was more a matter of necessity than anything to do with it being the best place for him.
As mentioned up the thread somewhere, he got injured this year and his replacement turned into a top 3 MVP guy out of nowhere. So much of the OF experiment was just Francona trying to
shoehorn him back into the lineup somehow. IOW, I wouldn't count on the OF line on his resume as being much of an asset, particularly as he ages.

Good hitter though, likes to get down and dirty, very camera friendly.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Sherman brought this up last week and Ocho and I kicked the idea around the other night. But what do you think about Indians 2b/OF Jason Kipnis? Would you trade Gsellman and Guillorme for him? I might try to work Lagares in there somehow.

Plusses:

-Versatile. Can play 2b or the outfield

Minuses:

-Coming off injury, lost his job to a better guy last year.

Contract:
-Signed for the next 2 seasons at $30.5 million with an option for 2020 at $16.5M (or $2.5M buyout). Huge bargain if he reverts to his 2015/2016 form. Pretty expensive if he puts up a part-time 81 OPS+ turd like last season.

What say you?!!

[Ceetar]

A Boy Named Seo wrote: What say you?!!

I think you should scroll [crossout]down[/crossout] up.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Oops! Thanks for the clean-up job.

[Vic Sage]

Kipnis is a guy who, when healthy, gives you at least 4 WAR per season. He's a 2-time all-star coming off a bad year. He'll be 31 at the start of next season, which is still a hitter's prime. And he'll be under contract for 2 more seasons, plus a team option for a 3rd, at relatively reasonable cost for a 4-WAR player. If we could get him for Gsellman and Guillorme, i would do that deal in an absolute heartbeat.