soupcan

Say what you want about Cantu - he's good. It seems that whenever I watch the Marlins he comes up big. 2-1 Fish by the way Fman.

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Sheesh. I wanted to kill myself seeing Putz and Rodriguez throw those 10-minute innings. Yup. I fell asleep.

The tacos don't live up to the hype.

Maine's going to put it all together tonight. Here's to 7 in a row for the Fishies.

Pennants and World Series only.

Was there yesterday as well. Booooooooooooooooo! I'm now 0-2 this season. 0-3 if you count the exhibition game against the Red Sox. Oh - one thing to add - At Citi Field if you get there early enough for batting practice you are allowed to walk down to the front rows in left, center and right fields. A good spot to fight for batting practice homeruns and banter with the players. Yesterday I was out there with my kids and the balls were routinely hitting the wall. Every 3 or so times that a guy would catch or retrieve a ball he'd throw it up to the stands. My kids were having no luck but a security guard gave a bp hr that landed out of reach of the fans to my daughter. I noticed a Nats coach with 'LISTACH' stitched on his back in the outfield with a fungo bat generally ignoring everyone yelling at him for balls. I told my son to try yelling 'Hey Pat' and see if that worked. He did, Listach turned and my blue-eyed, 12 year-old held up his glove and flashed his braces. Listach flipped him a ball. Dad's awesome. By the way - the bp balls have a stamp on them that says 'PRACTICE' underneath the mlb logo. Never seen that before. Assuming its new and used as a way to deter counterfeiting memorabilia.

="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]That was part of his story! I used to play 'Walkin' After Midnight' by Patsy Cline everytime I went in there. God that was so many years ago.

="John Cougar Lunchbucket":8b670l7z]...the Village Idiot bar.[/quote:8b670l7z] Used to have best juke box in the City. John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 24 2009 10:26 AM That was part of his story! He described it playing "You Never Even Call Me By My Name" by David Allen Coe, only he didn;t know the singer or the song, and was shocked when I replied with the lyrics. Edgy DC Apr 24 2009 10:30 AM I'm able to dig deep enough to get old forum pages listing thread titles, but not the threads themselves. Frusterating. http://web.archive.org/web/20001014000542/www.metsonline.net/home2.html soupcan Apr 24 2009 10:34 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]That was part of his story! I used to play 'Walkin' After Midnight' by Patsy Cline everytime I went in there. God that was so many years ago. Farmer Ted Apr 24 2009 07:14 PM I couldn't pull an Al story out. Hmm. Where have you gone Ambler, JSW52, & Met Jim?

He misremembered that it was a Led Zeppelin shirt. Zeppelin got a better laugh than 'Mets T-shirt' would've though.

Excellent. Love that guy.

Oh, I agree. I just noticed that as opposed to previous yearbooks, some of the pics included in this one were much more recent. Just an observation. Maybe its got something to do with Grimm's question, maybe not. Probably not.

Yearbook at Citi Field is $12.00 I think (or maybe $18? I forget). Picked one up last Sunday and there did not appear to be a shortage of them. The one thing I did notice is that there are photos of Citi Field in it that were taken at the St. John's - G'Town game and there is a photo of Sheffield in Mets warm-up togs. In the past it was not odd for the opening day yearbook to have pictures of guys from that year's spring training but Sheffield was added to the roster - what - a week before the opener? And the college game was also fairly close to that date as well. Now that I think about it there may have even been some shots from the Red Sox exhibition games in there. Maybe the fact that the yearbook wasn't ready until opening day (because of the inclusion of all those recent events) has something to do with its online availability?

metirish wrote: Not to be greedy but I need JCL to be posting a picture of an old guy with a broom come Sunday afternoon. Not to rain on your parade irish, but even if our boys win the first two they are scheduled to face the Nats hotshot rookie pitcher - Jordan Zimmerman on Sunday. We all know how the Mets usually seem to fare against rookie pitchers that they've never seen.

] April 24, 2009 Some Fans Feel New Home Ignores the Old Mets By KEN BELSON Where have you gone, Tug McGraw? Apparently, to the windswept left-field entrance of Citi Field. The Mets have taken a lot heat from fans angry about the ticket prices and the obstructed views at Citi Field. A vocal minority of fans have also complained that the new $800 million ballpark does not do enough to honor the team�s history. �The Mets have always been a populist ball club; �Bring the kiddies, bring the wife,� everyman stars like Ed Kranepool, sign day, etc.,� James Conley, a Mets fan, said in an e-mail message. �The best way to recognize the history of the team is to recognize the close connection to the fan base the Mets club has always enjoyed.� Where, other fans complain, are the banners that used to hang inside Shea that could be seen from the escalators? (They were sold at auction.) What happened to the 1969 photo montage that adorned the outside of the right-field stands? (Gone like the stadium.) Where is the bronze statue of Mike Piazza hitting his famous home run in September 2001? (Not on the drawing board yet.) The Mets do nod to their past. On the left-field side of the stadium, there are a dozen or so black-and-white banners of Stengel and Hodges, Tom and Tug, Darryl and Dykstra and other Mets. They are classy photos, but seen by only a fraction of the fans since most people enter through the rotunda near the subway station. The four retired numbers hang on the left-field fence, and the team�s championship flags fly on poles in right field. The old home run apple sits near a picnic area in right field, and the skyline from the old scoreboard is above the Shake Shack. The 18,000 bricks on the Fan Walk are touching, and the Jackie Robinson Rotunda is a high-minded tribute, even if Robinson never played for the Mets. But some fans are irked by the team�s decision to model Citi Field after Ebbets Field. (The Dodgers left New York long before many of them were born.) A handful of other fans wish the Mets did more to honor the Giants and the Polo Grounds. The Mets are aware of these complaints, including the chatter on sports radio stations. But opening the stadium on time took precedence over adornments. �It was something we always intended, but it wasn�t given a priority,� said Dave Howard, the Mets� vice president for operations. Howard said the team was working to add more memorabilia, including a display of Topps baseball cards of Mets from each year since 1962. Banners like the ones outside the stadium could be hung on the concourses inside. The busts in the team�s hall of fame, which has not added a member since 2002, could be replaced by plaques with relief sculptures and descriptions. Life-size statues, like the ones at AT&T Park and Busch Stadium, are possible. These additions will take time, though, which means the Mets will have to endure more taunts from their fans. Howard is sanguine. �I�m never surprised and always encouraged by the passion of Met fans,� he said. �It�s great that people care this much and we listen to it.�

="bmfc1":2lnomvpv]So the Mets lose Nelson Figueroa, a AAAA pitcher, but someone that can start and relieve (and would be a better choice than Brian Lawrence, Dave Williams, Brandon Knight, and Aaron Sele in a desperate September start) AND Darren O'Day, who looked OK, not great, but is still unknown, in exchange for Mike Pelfrey being able to start this weekend (by not DL'ing him) AND Casey Fossum. Well done Omar! It only took until late April for you to make an in-season screw up. It usually takes until the trade deadline.[/quote:2lnomvpv] What would you have done - DL-ed Big Pelf? Can we wait and see how Pelf throws this weekend before we declare Omar an idiot for losing two interchangeable parts? Benjamin Grimm Apr 23 2009 08:35 AM Yeah, that was a major mess-up, and one we saw coming. It would have been far smarter to avoid all that roster-juggling (and player losing) by just giving Brian Stokes that one start. bmfc1 Apr 23 2009 08:42 AM "What would you have done - DL-ed Big Pelf?" I concur with BG--I would have started Stokes. The Mets were undoubtedly concerned about being short in the BP if they did that but Monday was a day off. Edgy DC Apr 23 2009 08:45 AM I would have also, but this is in part a bi-product of the larger burdens on pens these days. Teams tend to avoid throwing a reliever --- even one with plenty of starting experience --- into the rotation because they need every reliever they've got to make it through the week. A start for Parnell was another viable alternative. Hawkeye57 Apr 23 2009 09:29 AM What's next for Omar? Two weeks into the season and he loses two depth players. Guess Figgy doesn't want to play with the AAA equivalent of the Nats. I also agree, I would probably have chosen Stokes to start the game, especially with the day off in there, and take the chance of losing him for 2-3 games later on. Would not have chosen Parnell, when he started games in the system he was less than stellar. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 23 2009 09:45 AM Player mistakes-- Murphy's Iron Glove act, Ollie being Ollie-- are ugly but forgivable. These kind of player-mismanagement follies, coupled with the fix-yesterday's-problem-to-win-today roster-management outlook... a lot less so. Edgy DC Apr 23 2009 09:52 AM I don't like losing these guys, but he's getting perhaps more shit than he deserves here. He's made some good waiver claims also. And replacing my beloved Kielty with Wily Mo Peña was perfect, and could help the Mets offensively and defensively this year. John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 23 2009 09:53 AM I don't wanna sound like a complete mgt tool but am I the only one who was shocked Figueroa gave us as much as he did? He started with some fairy dust the last time around too but in time he'd earned his way back to AAA and I'm absolutely convinced that would have been his fate with or without Fossum (who it turns out we needed this week in some good planning that's not being recognized by you critics). Figgy's just not that special a guy and if he wants to pitch for some other org's AAA team, let him. I'm sorrier to see O'Day go but then again he didn't look like he'd be capable of anything more taxing than mop-up work. I guess I should be happy for him that he keeps a big league job somewhere. Benjamin Grimm Apr 23 2009 09:58 AM I'm not saying that the guys that were lost had much significant value. But it doesn't seem too wise to lose two guys from your organization just for one fill-in start in April. You never know who you might need in the months to come. In July, if we're at a point where we're getting four-inning starts from Brandon Knight and too-frequent relief appearances from an ineffective Carlos Muniz, we might be wishing we had Figueroa and O'Day. Edgy DC Apr 23 2009 10:00 AM ... though with no firm reason to believe that they'd be giving anything more. Benjamin Grimm Apr 23 2009 10:59 AM True enough. All I'm saying is that more options are better than fewer options. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 23 2009 11:18 AM ="Edgy DC":3jzj23t1]I don't like losing these guys, but he's getting perhaps more shit than he deserves here. He's made some good waiver claims also. And replacing my beloved Kielty with Wily Mo Pe�a was perfect, and could help the Mets offensively and defensively this year.[/quote:3jzj23t1] Fair point-- but Wily Mo has averaged 1 strikeout every 3 PAs for his career and, although in possession of off-the-charts tools, is somewhat of a shitpile as an actual baseball player. (Although his closest B-R.com comparable IS Art Shamsky, so there's something.)

="batmagadanleadoff":dzaavb83]="soupcan":dzaavb83]="metsguyinmichigan":dzaavb83]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo.[/quote:dzaavb83] That's an excellent point.[/quote:dzaavb83] Except that the Dodgers also get Met uni love from the color blue.[/quote:dzaavb83] Do people look at the 'W' on the Nats cap and think of the Senators (yes) or do they look at the red cap and think of the Expos (no)? The only people that know that the Mets orange and blue are from the Dodgers and Giants are the more-than-fair-weather Mets fans. The interlocking 'NY' is a much more identifiable symbol of the New York Giants than the blue (which is a different shade of blue) of the Dodgers. ="Ashie62":dzaavb83]="soupcan":dzaavb83]="Ashie62":dzaavb83] If they want to erase it..do it quietly and respect Doc...kinda like the respect that is shown to jackie Robinson. Enough with the rotunda..its' there, its not leaving..We're Mets fans..we're used to second class status from management.. [/quote:dzaavb83] Doc Gooden ain't no Jackie Robinson. [/quote:dzaavb83] All men are created equal[/quote:dzaavb83] But some men are more equal than others. batmagadanleadoff Apr 23 2009 08:55 AM ="G-Fafif":2nv25y2s]="batmagadanleadoff":2nv25y2s]It'd be keen if Citi Field is lacking in PG references because the stadium once housed the hated MFY's. [/quote:2nv25y2s] In which case, forget Shea and its clutch of poorly hosted "home games" in '74, '75 and '98.[/quote:2nv25y2s] Well ... like I said ... this thread is about the Mets ignoring their own history. soupcan Apr 23 2009 10:51 AM ] April 24, 2009 Some Fans Feel New Home Ignores the Old Mets By KEN BELSON Where have you gone, Tug McGraw? Apparently, to the windswept left-field entrance of Citi Field. The Mets have taken a lot heat from fans angry about the ticket prices and the obstructed views at Citi Field. A vocal minority of fans have also complained that the new $800 million ballpark does not do enough to honor the team�s history. �The Mets have always been a populist ball club; �Bring the kiddies, bring the wife,� everyman stars like Ed Kranepool, sign day, etc.,� James Conley, a Mets fan, said in an e-mail message. �The best way to recognize the history of the team is to recognize the close connection to the fan base the Mets club has always enjoyed.� Where, other fans complain, are the banners that used to hang inside Shea that could be seen from the escalators? (They were sold at auction.) What happened to the 1969 photo montage that adorned the outside of the right-field stands? (Gone like the stadium.) Where is the bronze statue of Mike Piazza hitting his famous home run in September 2001? (Not on the drawing board yet.) The Mets do nod to their past. On the left-field side of the stadium, there are a dozen or so black-and-white banners of Stengel and Hodges, Tom and Tug, Darryl and Dykstra and other Mets. They are classy photos, but seen by only a fraction of the fans since most people enter through the rotunda near the subway station. The four retired numbers hang on the left-field fence, and the team�s championship flags fly on poles in right field. The old home run apple sits near a picnic area in right field, and the skyline from the old scoreboard is above the Shake Shack. The 18,000 bricks on the Fan Walk are touching, and the Jackie Robinson Rotunda is a high-minded tribute, even if Robinson never played for the Mets. But some fans are irked by the team�s decision to model Citi Field after Ebbets Field. (The Dodgers left New York long before many of them were born.) A handful of other fans wish the Mets did more to honor the Giants and the Polo Grounds. The Mets are aware of these complaints, including the chatter on sports radio stations. But opening the stadium on time took precedence over adornments. �It was something we always intended, but it wasn�t given a priority,� said Dave Howard, the Mets� vice president for operations. Howard said the team was working to add more memorabilia, including a display of Topps baseball cards of Mets from each year since 1962. Banners like the ones outside the stadium could be hung on the concourses inside. The busts in the team�s hall of fame, which has not added a member since 2002, could be replaced by plaques with relief sculptures and descriptions. Life-size statues, like the ones at AT&T Park and Busch Stadium, are possible. These additions will take time, though, which means the Mets will have to endure more taunts from their fans. Howard is sanguine. �I�m never surprised and always encouraged by the passion of Met fans,� he said. �It�s great that people care this much and we listen to it.� John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 23 2009 10:56 AM I can almost see Howard reading his quotes in the paper and saying "I think they bought it." G-Fafif Apr 23 2009 01:20 PM It is great people care this much. I doubt they listen to it. Now to get the passion of the players to match the passion of the fans. seawolf17 Apr 23 2009 01:48 PM ="nytimes":wyzq4ko4]including a display of Topps baseball cards of Mets from each year since 1962[/quote:wyzq4ko4] Ooh, I'd be thrilled with that, considering I'm working on that Mets Topps run myself. SteveJRogers Apr 23 2009 04:12 PM ]�The Mets have always been a populist ball club; �Bring the kiddies, bring the wife,� everyman stars like Ed Kranepool, sign day, etc.,� James Conley, a Mets fan, said in an e-mail message. �The best way to recognize the history of the team is to recognize the close connection to the fan base the Mets club has always enjoyed.� I like this fellow's passion in terms of emailing The New York Times and all, but... Well for one, it was called "Banner Day." And second, even though I'm typing this on a fourm named in his honor, why is it that Kranepool, who barely started most of the time he was a Met, always gets spotlighted as the symbol of the franchise? Edgy DC Apr 23 2009 04:45 PM He doesn't always get spotlighted as a symbol of the franchise. Kong76 Apr 23 2009 05:15 PM I caught up three pages, good thread. Nice job with The Spirit of Metsio. EDC: He doesn't always get spotlighted as a symbol of the franchise <<< Jeets has 20/20 vision, the rest of the world is wearing bifocals. (loosely from some movie that I can't think of right now, Paul Newman?)

I'm on their mailing list too - They want me to 'taste the greatness' or some such nonsense.

Upside-down 'N'...

Well I'm not happy about 'Mets' on the road instead of 'New York' but I guess on the positive side if they've scrapped that one then its one less black uniform. I didn't see any Citi Field patch on the shoulder - I think I would have noticed that.

Not to get all SJR on everyone but I just perused last night's IGT and didn't see that anyone mentioned it, but what was the deal with the uniform's last night? When the Mets don't wear their greys on the road, don't they wear the black tops that say 'New York'? Last night was the black 'Mets' tops. Also I thought that the Citi Field logo that was on the caps last night was only supposed to be worn when at home. It doesn't really make sense on the road does it? Made me think that the equipment manager's staff screwed up and packed the wrong shit.

="metsguyinmichigan":bz15gf10]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo.[/quote:bz15gf10] That's an excellent point. batmagadanleadoff Apr 22 2009 04:04 PM ="soupcan":2n1x70ze]="metsguyinmichigan":2n1x70ze]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo.[/quote:2n1x70ze] That's an excellent point.[/quote:2n1x70ze] Except that the Dodgers also get Met uni love from the color blue. Ashie62 Apr 22 2009 04:09 PM ="soupcan":2tdnfklr]="Ashie62":2tdnfklr]If they want to erase it..do it quietly and respect Doc...kinda like the respect that is shown to jackie Robinson. Enough with the rotunda..its' there, its not leaving..We're Mets fans..we're used to second class status from management..[/quote:2tdnfklr][/quote:2tdnfklr] Doc Gooden ain't no Jackie Robinson. All men are created equal Met Hunter Apr 22 2009 07:08 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":60pwhhxj]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo. [/quote:60pwhhxj] I'd be ok with a John McGraw tribute somewhere in the rotunda. Especially knowing that Mrs. McGraw, at the closing of the Polo Grounds, (a place the Mets actually played) after being asked how her husband would feel, said "He's rolling over in his grave". metsguyinmichigan Apr 22 2009 07:49 PM When and if they get to a Mets Hall of Fame, and if it were of decent size, I think it would be appropriate for a room devoted to National League baseball in New York. Then you could give poople like McGraw, Christy Mathewson, Mel Ott, Monte Irvin and Willie Mays their proper New York Love, along with the usual Dodger suspects like Campy, Pee Wee, Ersk. Swan Swan H Apr 22 2009 07:57 PM Xerox is a big sponsor this year. Get them on the blower and start working on some interactive stuff for the new HOF. Barter, boys, get this thing moving. Frayed Knot Apr 22 2009 07:59 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":3ix69awn]When and if they get to a Mets Hall of Fame, and if it were of decent size, I think it would be appropriate for a room devoted to National League baseball in New York. Then you could give poople like McGraw, Christy Mathewson, Mel Ott, Monte Irvin and Willie Mays their proper New York Love, along with the usual Dodger suspects like Campy, Pee Wee, Ersk.[/quote:3ix69awn] We don't have room for that sort of stuff. Ashie62 Apr 22 2009 08:15 PM Wouldn't adding NY Giants stuff on top of Dodger stuff on top of Mets stuff with more Mets stuff coming be too much stuff? If a woodchuck could chuck stuff. G-Fafif Apr 22 2009 08:51 PM There's probably some space where the 2009 World Champions pennant was supposed to go. Edgy DC Apr 22 2009 09:40 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":1nasyirq]When and if they get to a Mets Hall of Fame, and if it were of decent size, I think it would be appropriate for a room devoted to National League baseball in New York. Then you could give poople like McGraw, Christy Mathewson, Mel Ott, Monte Irvin and Willie Mays their proper New York Love, along with the usual Dodger suspects like Campy, Pee Wee, Ersk.[/quote:1nasyirq] Isn't this the exact opposite of what people are decrying? soupcan Apr 23 2009 07:50 AM ="batmagadanleadoff":dzaavb83]="soupcan":dzaavb83]="metsguyinmichigan":dzaavb83]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo.[/quote:dzaavb83] That's an excellent point.[/quote:dzaavb83] Except that the Dodgers also get Met uni love from the color blue.[/quote:dzaavb83] Do people look at the 'W' on the Nats cap and think of the Senators (yes) or do they look at the red cap and think of the Expos (no)? The only people that know that the Mets orange and blue are from the Dodgers and Giants are the more-than-fair-weather Mets fans. The interlocking 'NY' is a much more identifiable symbol of the New York Giants than the blue (which is a different shade of blue) of the Dodgers. ="Ashie62":dzaavb83]="soupcan":dzaavb83]="Ashie62":dzaavb83] If they want to erase it..do it quietly and respect Doc...kinda like the respect that is shown to jackie Robinson. Enough with the rotunda..its' there, its not leaving..We're Mets fans..we're used to second class status from management.. [/quote:dzaavb83] Doc Gooden ain't no Jackie Robinson. [/quote:dzaavb83] All men are created equal[/quote:dzaavb83] But some men are more equal than others. batmagadanleadoff Apr 23 2009 08:55 AM ="G-Fafif":2nv25y2s]="batmagadanleadoff":2nv25y2s]It'd be keen if Citi Field is lacking in PG references because the stadium once housed the hated MFY's. [/quote:2nv25y2s] In which case, forget Shea and its clutch of poorly hosted "home games" in '74, '75 and '98.[/quote:2nv25y2s] Well ... like I said ... this thread is about the Mets ignoring their own history. soupcan Apr 23 2009 10:51 AM ] April 24, 2009 Some Fans Feel New Home Ignores the Old Mets By KEN BELSON Where have you gone, Tug McGraw? Apparently, to the windswept left-field entrance of Citi Field. The Mets have taken a lot heat from fans angry about the ticket prices and the obstructed views at Citi Field. A vocal minority of fans have also complained that the new $800 million ballpark does not do enough to honor the team�s history. �The Mets have always been a populist ball club; �Bring the kiddies, bring the wife,� everyman stars like Ed Kranepool, sign day, etc.,� James Conley, a Mets fan, said in an e-mail message. �The best way to recognize the history of the team is to recognize the close connection to the fan base the Mets club has always enjoyed.� Where, other fans complain, are the banners that used to hang inside Shea that could be seen from the escalators? (They were sold at auction.) What happened to the 1969 photo montage that adorned the outside of the right-field stands? (Gone like the stadium.) Where is the bronze statue of Mike Piazza hitting his famous home run in September 2001? (Not on the drawing board yet.) The Mets do nod to their past. On the left-field side of the stadium, there are a dozen or so black-and-white banners of Stengel and Hodges, Tom and Tug, Darryl and Dykstra and other Mets. They are classy photos, but seen by only a fraction of the fans since most people enter through the rotunda near the subway station. The four retired numbers hang on the left-field fence, and the team�s championship flags fly on poles in right field. The old home run apple sits near a picnic area in right field, and the skyline from the old scoreboard is above the Shake Shack. The 18,000 bricks on the Fan Walk are touching, and the Jackie Robinson Rotunda is a high-minded tribute, even if Robinson never played for the Mets. But some fans are irked by the team�s decision to model Citi Field after Ebbets Field. (The Dodgers left New York long before many of them were born.) A handful of other fans wish the Mets did more to honor the Giants and the Polo Grounds. The Mets are aware of these complaints, including the chatter on sports radio stations. But opening the stadium on time took precedence over adornments. �It was something we always intended, but it wasn�t given a priority,� said Dave Howard, the Mets� vice president for operations. Howard said the team was working to add more memorabilia, including a display of Topps baseball cards of Mets from each year since 1962. Banners like the ones outside the stadium could be hung on the concourses inside. The busts in the team�s hall of fame, which has not added a member since 2002, could be replaced by plaques with relief sculptures and descriptions. Life-size statues, like the ones at AT&T Park and Busch Stadium, are possible. These additions will take time, though, which means the Mets will have to endure more taunts from their fans. Howard is sanguine. �I�m never surprised and always encouraged by the passion of Met fans,� he said. �It�s great that people care this much and we listen to it.� John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 23 2009 10:56 AM I can almost see Howard reading his quotes in the paper and saying "I think they bought it." G-Fafif Apr 23 2009 01:20 PM It is great people care this much. I doubt they listen to it. Now to get the passion of the players to match the passion of the fans. seawolf17 Apr 23 2009 01:48 PM ="nytimes":wyzq4ko4]including a display of Topps baseball cards of Mets from each year since 1962[/quote:wyzq4ko4] Ooh, I'd be thrilled with that, considering I'm working on that Mets Topps run myself. SteveJRogers Apr 23 2009 04:12 PM ]�The Mets have always been a populist ball club; �Bring the kiddies, bring the wife,� everyman stars like Ed Kranepool, sign day, etc.,� James Conley, a Mets fan, said in an e-mail message. �The best way to recognize the history of the team is to recognize the close connection to the fan base the Mets club has always enjoyed.� I like this fellow's passion in terms of emailing The New York Times and all, but... Well for one, it was called "Banner Day." And second, even though I'm typing this on a fourm named in his honor, why is it that Kranepool, who barely started most of the time he was a Met, always gets spotlighted as the symbol of the franchise? Edgy DC Apr 23 2009 04:45 PM He doesn't always get spotlighted as a symbol of the franchise. Kong76 Apr 23 2009 05:15 PM I caught up three pages, good thread. Nice job with The Spirit of Metsio. EDC: He doesn't always get spotlighted as a symbol of the franchise <<< Jeets has 20/20 vision, the rest of the world is wearing bifocals. (loosely from some movie that I can't think of right now, Paul Newman?)

Ugh. Murphy and Beltran.

="Ashie62":61fwbka1]If they want to erase it..do it quietly and respect Doc...kinda like the respect that is shown to jackie Robinson. Enough with the rotunda..its' there, its not leaving..We're Mets fans..we're used to second class status from management..[/quote:61fwbka1] Doc Gooden ain't no Jackie Robinson. As to the Ebbets Field / Jackie Robinson / Dodger thing - Is it so hard to understand that they are honoring the man and not the ballplayer? The guy happened to play for the Dodgers but he was a whole lot more than just a ballplayer. The chose to pattern the stadium after Ebbets Field, big deal. They did the same thing in Milwaukee, where's the uproar there? Guess what - there isn't any. Personally, if and when Citi Group ceases to exist and there comes a time when sports arenas revert back to being named in honor of certain individuals, I'd think 'Jackie Robinson Field' would be an excellent choice. Benjamin Grimm Apr 21 2009 03:33 PM And there's a distinction (at least, I see one) between the Los Angeles Dodgers (an opposing team) and the Brooklyn Dodgers, an ancestor of the Mets, as are the New York Giants. Vic Sage Apr 22 2009 09:05 AM I don't object to the "Robinson Rotunda" as such, or the Ebbets homage at all. What bothers me is that, in the absence of any NYGiants references (other than the black and orange outfield wall colors), or, for that matter, any Mets references (going so far as to react badly to the adhoc Gooden graffiti situation), the Dodger stuff is just so disproportionate. Yes, Jackie Robinson is worthy of tribute, but he's just as worthy of tribute in every major league city in America. I love the big screen tvs in the rotunda showing Robinson clips, and the big 42 is fine, and his words and philosophy are inspiring, but couldn't the rotunda have also celebrated Roberto Clemente (another player who never had anything whatsoever to do with the Mets), who is a revered player in the Latin community (very big in NYC), who died while bringing disaster relief to Nicaragua. Or a Giants great like Willie Mays, who at least ended his career back here in NYC. If it wasn't JUST about Robinson and Ebbetts field, i don't think many fans would have a problem. But so far, thats all it is, and so the Gooden thing gets overblown (by both sides), and the issue about their plans for a Mets HOF become more pressing and makes them look even worse. New building... same ole Mets. Vic Sage Apr 22 2009 09:11 AM AVI Edgy DC Apr 22 2009 09:15 AM As far as Mays and Clemente, Clemente was an excellent player and a fine man who died in a charitable enterprise and his legacy is worthy of honor. But I think it's fair that Robinson is a transcendent and transformational figure and I think his legacy is worthy of a singular honor. And New York was big part of that legacy, so it's appropriate that the honor be centered here. As far as Giants vs. Dodgers, a façade is a façade Ebbets had a handsome one and they decided to reference it. I went on record at the time saying that it looks out of place in a big parking lot instead of a neighborhood street corner, but here we are. If the outfield walls and the seat colors aren't enough of a Polo grounds counterbalance, I think we're getting a little beancounty regarding the issue of Dodgers/Giants equity. Ebbets theme outside. Polo Grounds theme inside. Neither hopefully so overwhelming that it won't be a Mets stadium when all is said and done. Your post yesterday seemed to give a Feh toward the Dodger/Giant thing. HahnSolo Apr 22 2009 09:23 AM I have said that I like the Rotunda. I think it is classy, and I think if you really want to avoid the Jackie stuff on your way through you can. So I'm not going to get into "they should have done this, they should have also honored this guy...." But to Edgy's point, I really wonder if the green seats were specifically done to mimic the Polo Grounds, or they just decided that dark green was the optimal seat color, and then someone figured out "hey, that's the same color as the PG." I believe the latter. Vic Sage Apr 22 2009 09:32 AM ]Your post yesterday seemed to give a Feh toward the Dodger/Giant thing it's really not that big issue to me, and i think "feh" pretty well sums up my attitude. I just think its become a bigger issue to the public because of the dunderheaded approach ownership has taken to honoring the Mets' own legacy. I'm not saying the necessarily SHOULD have built a tribute to Clemente or Mays, particularly, but its disproportionate to recognize to the extent they have non-Mets history in the new Mets building, or even to recognize 1 of their two progenitor franchises disproprtionately, without any recognition at all of their own history. Frankly, i'm more annoyed that the building sacrifices sightlines for "intimacy". batmagadanleadoff Apr 22 2009 09:36 AM ="HahnSolo":2b35ft50]I have said that I like the Rotunda. I think it is classy, and I think if you really want to avoid the Jackie stuff on your way through you can.[/quote:2b35ft50] If you don't like it, don't look at it. Not much consolation to someone less than thrilled with the JR Rotunda. The aesthetics is not a problem. ="HahnSolo":2b35ft50] I really wonder if the green seats were specifically done to mimic the Polo Grounds, or they just decided that dark green was the optimal seat color, and then someone figured out "hey, that's the same color as the PG." I believe the latter.[/quote:2b35ft50] I'm in the convenient rationalization after the fact camp, myself. G-Fafif Apr 22 2009 09:48 AM ="HahnSolo":1ayohpol]I really wonder if the green seats were specifically done to mimic the Polo Grounds, or they just decided that dark green was the optimal seat color, and then someone figured out "hey, that's the same color as the PG." I believe the latter.[/quote:1ayohpol] Bingo. The green seats were in the plans from Day One and were never connected to the PG until relatively late in the game. The walls aren't any kind of explicit homage either from what I can tell. They're just black with orange numbers and, for my money, stupefyingly unattractive. There was supposed to be a "Coogan's Landing," in left field, but that got left on the drawing board. It was the only specific Polo Grounds reference planned. It sits in Press Release Park with the Orchard and the East Side, two other names mentioned early on that fell by the wayside. metsguyinmichigan Apr 22 2009 10:00 AM I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo. I think this thing with Gooden became a big deal because there are media types there who are just waiting to pounce and condemn the Mets. If Don Mattingly did the same thing at the Death Star, I suspect the coverage would have been different. Edgy DC Apr 22 2009 10:06 AM I'mnot sure how the green seats being there from Day One particularly undercuts the Mets' contention. Moreover, I think the conflating of the Dodgers/Giants thing with the lack-of-Mets-history thing is undermining the latter point. G-Fafif Apr 22 2009 10:14 AM ="Edgy DC":3hs8m27h]I'mnot sure how the green seats being there from Day One particularly undercuts the Mets' contention. Moreover, I think the conflating of the Dodgers/Giants thing with the lack-of-Mets-history thing is undermining the latter point.[/quote:3hs8m27h] The seats are green because somebody liked the color, which is fine. Sometimes a green seat is just a green seat. The exterior and rotunda at 120-01 Roosevelt Avenue exist as they do because they existed that way at 55 Sullivan Place. Agreed Dodgers/Giants ratio is not relevant, specifically, to the lack of Metsiana. It just accents how skewed the sense of heritage informing this park is. G-Fafif Apr 22 2009 10:22 AM ="metsguyinmichigan":2ec4je5k]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo. I think this thing with Gooden became a big deal because there are media types there who are just waiting to pounce and condemn the Mets. If Don Mattingly did the same thing at the Death Star, I suspect the coverage would have been different.[/quote:2ec4je5k] If this place had been designed to mimic the Polo Grounds, if there was a Stoneham Club, if a Christy Matthewson Plaza welcomed you -- and there was as little about the Mets informing the place and zero about the Dodgers -- it would be as creepy and misguided as the pervasive presence of the Ebbets fetish. The Mets deserved the pouncing and condemnation on Gooden for their reaction and overreaction. How they lacked the presence of mind to make lemonade out of lemons is indicative of the lack of imagination that made their default stadium an aping of someone else's. And if the MFYs treated Mattingly's hypothetical wall signature as the Mets initially did, they'd hear about it, too. Not an issue for the MFYs since they set up a museum with nearly 700 baseballs autographed by MFY players and personalities. batmagadanleadoff Apr 22 2009 10:44 AM ="G-Fafif":1pl4ukac]The seats are green because somebody liked the color, which is fine. Sometimes a green seat is just a green seat.[/quote:1pl4ukac] This is exactly what I thought the instant I skeptically read the Mets propaganda about how green was supposedly for the Polo Grounds. It'd be keen if Citi Field is lacking in PG references because the stadium once housed the hated MFY's. Of course, the PG's were also home to our Mets and so there'd be some nose cutting face-spiting going on here, but this thread is all about the Mets ignoring their own heritage. (Not that I believe the MFY angle that I invented just for the sake of this post). Benjamin Grimm Apr 22 2009 11:18 AM You know, if they don't cover Doc's signature with plexiglass, it's only a matter of time before someone adds another line to it: 87 DRUG SUSPENSION Edgy DC Apr 22 2009 11:20 AM See, that's why you can't quit your Mets jones. I won't allow it. Benjamin Grimm Apr 22 2009 11:29 AM I'll try to hang in there, then. G-Fafif Apr 22 2009 11:30 AM ="batmagadanleadoff":1zlf960a]It'd be keen if Citi Field is lacking in PG references because the stadium once housed the hated MFY's. [/quote:1zlf960a] In which case, forget Shea and its clutch of poorly hosted "home games" in '74, '75 and '98. soupcan Apr 22 2009 11:32 AM ="metsguyinmichigan":bz15gf10]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo.[/quote:bz15gf10] That's an excellent point. batmagadanleadoff Apr 22 2009 04:04 PM ="soupcan":2n1x70ze]="metsguyinmichigan":2n1x70ze]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo.[/quote:2n1x70ze] That's an excellent point.[/quote:2n1x70ze] Except that the Dodgers also get Met uni love from the color blue. Ashie62 Apr 22 2009 04:09 PM ="soupcan":2tdnfklr]="Ashie62":2tdnfklr]If they want to erase it..do it quietly and respect Doc...kinda like the respect that is shown to jackie Robinson. Enough with the rotunda..its' there, its not leaving..We're Mets fans..we're used to second class status from management..[/quote:2tdnfklr][/quote:2tdnfklr] Doc Gooden ain't no Jackie Robinson. All men are created equal Met Hunter Apr 22 2009 07:08 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":60pwhhxj]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo. [/quote:60pwhhxj] I'd be ok with a John McGraw tribute somewhere in the rotunda. Especially knowing that Mrs. McGraw, at the closing of the Polo Grounds, (a place the Mets actually played) after being asked how her husband would feel, said "He's rolling over in his grave". metsguyinmichigan Apr 22 2009 07:49 PM When and if they get to a Mets Hall of Fame, and if it were of decent size, I think it would be appropriate for a room devoted to National League baseball in New York. Then you could give poople like McGraw, Christy Mathewson, Mel Ott, Monte Irvin and Willie Mays their proper New York Love, along with the usual Dodger suspects like Campy, Pee Wee, Ersk. Swan Swan H Apr 22 2009 07:57 PM Xerox is a big sponsor this year. Get them on the blower and start working on some interactive stuff for the new HOF. Barter, boys, get this thing moving. Frayed Knot Apr 22 2009 07:59 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":3ix69awn]When and if they get to a Mets Hall of Fame, and if it were of decent size, I think it would be appropriate for a room devoted to National League baseball in New York. Then you could give poople like McGraw, Christy Mathewson, Mel Ott, Monte Irvin and Willie Mays their proper New York Love, along with the usual Dodger suspects like Campy, Pee Wee, Ersk.[/quote:3ix69awn] We don't have room for that sort of stuff. Ashie62 Apr 22 2009 08:15 PM Wouldn't adding NY Giants stuff on top of Dodger stuff on top of Mets stuff with more Mets stuff coming be too much stuff? If a woodchuck could chuck stuff. G-Fafif Apr 22 2009 08:51 PM There's probably some space where the 2009 World Champions pennant was supposed to go. Edgy DC Apr 22 2009 09:40 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":1nasyirq]When and if they get to a Mets Hall of Fame, and if it were of decent size, I think it would be appropriate for a room devoted to National League baseball in New York. Then you could give poople like McGraw, Christy Mathewson, Mel Ott, Monte Irvin and Willie Mays their proper New York Love, along with the usual Dodger suspects like Campy, Pee Wee, Ersk.[/quote:1nasyirq] Isn't this the exact opposite of what people are decrying? soupcan Apr 23 2009 07:50 AM ="batmagadanleadoff":dzaavb83]="soupcan":dzaavb83]="metsguyinmichigan":dzaavb83]I'm OK with not doing a ton with the Giants. They kind of pay tribute every time they put on a cap with that logo.[/quote:dzaavb83] That's an excellent point.[/quote:dzaavb83] Except that the Dodgers also get Met uni love from the color blue.[/quote:dzaavb83] Do people look at the 'W' on the Nats cap and think of the Senators (yes) or do they look at the red cap and think of the Expos (no)? The only people that know that the Mets orange and blue are from the Dodgers and Giants are the more-than-fair-weather Mets fans. The interlocking 'NY' is a much more identifiable symbol of the New York Giants than the blue (which is a different shade of blue) of the Dodgers. ="Ashie62":dzaavb83]="soupcan":dzaavb83]="Ashie62":dzaavb83] If they want to erase it..do it quietly and respect Doc...kinda like the respect that is shown to jackie Robinson. Enough with the rotunda..its' there, its not leaving..We're Mets fans..we're used to second class status from management.. [/quote:dzaavb83] Doc Gooden ain't no Jackie Robinson. [/quote:dzaavb83] All men are created equal[/quote:dzaavb83] But some men are more equal than others. batmagadanleadoff Apr 23 2009 08:55 AM ="G-Fafif":2nv25y2s]="batmagadanleadoff":2nv25y2s]It'd be keen if Citi Field is lacking in PG references because the stadium once housed the hated MFY's. [/quote:2nv25y2s] In which case, forget Shea and its clutch of poorly hosted "home games" in '74, '75 and '98.[/quote:2nv25y2s] Well ... like I said ... this thread is about the Mets ignoring their own history. soupcan Apr 23 2009 10:51 AM ] April 24, 2009 Some Fans Feel New Home Ignores the Old Mets By KEN BELSON Where have you gone, Tug McGraw? Apparently, to the windswept left-field entrance of Citi Field. The Mets have taken a lot heat from fans angry about the ticket prices and the obstructed views at Citi Field. A vocal minority of fans have also complained that the new $800 million ballpark does not do enough to honor the team�s history. �The Mets have always been a populist ball club; �Bring the kiddies, bring the wife,� everyman stars like Ed Kranepool, sign day, etc.,� James Conley, a Mets fan, said in an e-mail message. �The best way to recognize the history of the team is to recognize the close connection to the fan base the Mets club has always enjoyed.� Where, other fans complain, are the banners that used to hang inside Shea that could be seen from the escalators? (They were sold at auction.) What happened to the 1969 photo montage that adorned the outside of the right-field stands? (Gone like the stadium.) Where is the bronze statue of Mike Piazza hitting his famous home run in September 2001? (Not on the drawing board yet.) The Mets do nod to their past. On the left-field side of the stadium, there are a dozen or so black-and-white banners of Stengel and Hodges, Tom and Tug, Darryl and Dykstra and other Mets. They are classy photos, but seen by only a fraction of the fans since most people enter through the rotunda near the subway station. The four retired numbers hang on the left-field fence, and the team�s championship flags fly on poles in right field. The old home run apple sits near a picnic area in right field, and the skyline from the old scoreboard is above the Shake Shack. The 18,000 bricks on the Fan Walk are touching, and the Jackie Robinson Rotunda is a high-minded tribute, even if Robinson never played for the Mets. But some fans are irked by the team�s decision to model Citi Field after Ebbets Field. (The Dodgers left New York long before many of them were born.) A handful of other fans wish the Mets did more to honor the Giants and the Polo Grounds. The Mets are aware of these complaints, including the chatter on sports radio stations. But opening the stadium on time took precedence over adornments. �It was something we always intended, but it wasn�t given a priority,� said Dave Howard, the Mets� vice president for operations. Howard said the team was working to add more memorabilia, including a display of Topps baseball cards of Mets from each year since 1962. Banners like the ones outside the stadium could be hung on the concourses inside. The busts in the team�s hall of fame, which has not added a member since 2002, could be replaced by plaques with relief sculptures and descriptions. Life-size statues, like the ones at AT&T Park and Busch Stadium, are possible. These additions will take time, though, which means the Mets will have to endure more taunts from their fans. Howard is sanguine. �I�m never surprised and always encouraged by the passion of Met fans,� he said. �It�s great that people care this much and we listen to it.� John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 23 2009 10:56 AM I can almost see Howard reading his quotes in the paper and saying "I think they bought it." G-Fafif Apr 23 2009 01:20 PM It is great people care this much. I doubt they listen to it. Now to get the passion of the players to match the passion of the fans. seawolf17 Apr 23 2009 01:48 PM ="nytimes":wyzq4ko4]including a display of Topps baseball cards of Mets from each year since 1962[/quote:wyzq4ko4] Ooh, I'd be thrilled with that, considering I'm working on that Mets Topps run myself. SteveJRogers Apr 23 2009 04:12 PM ]�The Mets have always been a populist ball club; �Bring the kiddies, bring the wife,� everyman stars like Ed Kranepool, sign day, etc.,� James Conley, a Mets fan, said in an e-mail message. �The best way to recognize the history of the team is to recognize the close connection to the fan base the Mets club has always enjoyed.� I like this fellow's passion in terms of emailing The New York Times and all, but... Well for one, it was called "Banner Day." And second, even though I'm typing this on a fourm named in his honor, why is it that Kranepool, who barely started most of the time he was a Met, always gets spotlighted as the symbol of the franchise? Edgy DC Apr 23 2009 04:45 PM He doesn't always get spotlighted as a symbol of the franchise. Kong76 Apr 23 2009 05:15 PM I caught up three pages, good thread. Nice job with The Spirit of Metsio. EDC: He doesn't always get spotlighted as a symbol of the franchise <<< Jeets has 20/20 vision, the rest of the world is wearing bifocals. (loosely from some movie that I can't think of right now, Paul Newman?)

People seem to forget that their '90s dynasty was built while Steinbrenner was suspended from baseball and unable to trade guys like Jeter and Rivera. He gets all the credit for building that team but the reality is that it was Gene Michael who grew those guys and brought them up. By the time King George was back in power, the 'core' of those teams was well on its way to establishing itself and any moron would've known enough to keep them together. In short it was the opposite of the Streinbrenner era Yankee philosophy that got them to that point. As a Mets fan its been nice to see them revert to their pre-Howie Spira tendencies.

I don't give a crap either way about this and if pressed I'd side with management.