soupcan

To all the fans lamenting about the non-Metlness of Citi Field, I would simply say to be patient. A house is not a home the day you move into it, it takes time to furnish, decorate and make it your own. I have friends that have bought houses, hired decorators and filled their houses up with furniture and crap within a month of moving in. Those houses look really nice and they're furnished and finished, but what does their house tell me about them? That they like Ethan Allen? That there's a Pottery Barn nearby? We've lived in our house for 10 years and our master bedroom is still unfurnished (of course there's a bed and a flatscreen TV in there, I'm not a complete idiot). Filling a place up with things that reflect your own style and sensibilities takes time and effort if you really want to make a place your own. The rooms we have done are very comfortable and speak to who we are and how we live as a family. Over time you collect decorative pieces and pieces of furniture on trips, at auctions, tag sales, from relatives etc. These have memories within them that add to your home and your life. I think there's nothing wrong with wanting a place ready-to-move-in when you build it, but to really get a feeling like its yours, be patient, let it grow on you. Bit by bit the place will fill up with things naturally. On the other hand, there is only 9-year-old Comerica Park...

="Edgy DC":zczq918u]It just seems to be so lazily thought out. The total space used seems more-or-less square, so why not turn it 90 degrees, from this: Guests Home to this: Guests Home ? That way both have access to the outfield wall and a vantage point to watch the game from. At least give the plum positioning to the guests. It's rude otherwise.[/quote:zczq918u] It took me two days to figure out what that post was about. soupcan Apr 21 2009 01:04 PM To all the fans lamenting about the non-Metlness of Citi Field, I would simply say to be patient. A house is not a home the day you move into it, it takes time to furnish, decorate and make it your own. I have friends that have bought houses, hired decorators and filled their houses up with furniture and crap within a month of moving in. Those houses look really nice and they're furnished and finished, but what does their house tell me about them? That they like Ethan Allen? That there's a Pottery Barn nearby? We've lived in our house for 10 years and our master bedroom is still unfurnished (of course there's a bed and a flatscreen TV in there, I'm not a complete idiot). Filling a place up with things that reflect your own style and sensibilities takes time and effort if you really want to make a place your own. The rooms we have done are very comfortable and speak to who we are and how we live as a family. Over time you collect decorative pieces and pieces of furniture on trips, at auctions, tag sales, from relatives etc. These have memories within them that add to your home and your life. I think there's nothing wrong with wanting a place ready-to-move-in when you build it, but to really get a feeling like its yours, be patient, let it grow on you. Bit by bit the place will fill up with things naturally. On the other hand, there is only 9-year-old Comerica Park... Swan Swan H Apr 21 2009 01:48 PM You'll never sell papers with that attitude, Soup. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 21 2009 01:52 PM ="soupcan"]To all the fans lamenting about the non-Metlness of Citi Field, I would simply say to be patient. A house is not a home the day you move into it, it takes time to furnish, decorate and make it your own. I have friends that have bought houses, hired decorators and filled their houses up with furniture and crap within a month of moving in. Those houses look really nice and they're furnished and finished, but what does their house tell me about them? That they like Ethan Allen? That there's a Pottery Barn nearby? We've lived in our house for 10 years and our master bedroom is still unfurnished (of course there's a bed and a flatscreen TV in there, I'm not a complete idiot). Filling a place up with things that reflect your own style and sensibilities takes time and effort if you really want to make a place your own. The rooms we have done are very comfortable and speak to who we are and how we live as a family. Over time you collect decorative pieces and pieces of furniture on trips, at auctions, tag sales, from relatives etc. These have memories within them that add to your home and your life. I think there's nothing wrong with wanting a place ready-to-move-in when you build it, but to really get a feeling like its yours, be patient, let it grow on you. Bit by bit the place will fill up with things naturally. Agree to an extent, Soups... more with the tone than the actual content, though. Management worked hard on the stadium financing package, obviously. A lot of time was spent with the HOK guys (obs. view seats notwithstanding). They seemed to put a great deal of thought into the food (thankfully) and the ticket pricing (and its eleventy billion seating costs/options). I'm with Swanny on the Rotunda-- I like the idea, and its execution. And I LOVE the Endy/Rocky/Tom silhouettes topping the other entrances. They couldn't have spent a little more time in the three-four years of stadium planning to, say, think about what their customers want by way of Mets history BEFORE the Stadium is built? Or, you know, failing that, to ask? I mean, if Doc gets it... "They have every right to do what they want with their new stadium, but I don't understand it," Gooden said. "I think it's great that they're talking about it doing now, but I would've thought it would've been there already. " metsfanbook Apr 22 2009 07:11 AM I asked the door guard about which sections were allowed into the Promenade Club and she told me 406-423, which are the seats designated as Promenade Club. So the 500-level is indeed frozen out of clubland completely. This is not a total loss since I'm not sure why people going to a ballgame want to have the kind of experience they can have in airport lounges or sports bars. Still, it is a total loss to have so much of the stadium turned over to the enforcement of economic exclusivity eerily and unpleasantly reminiscent of the kind of exclusivity people had to deal with in the days of Jackie Robinson. HahnSolo Apr 22 2009 08:53 AM ="soupcan":2n5xw76g]To all the fans lamenting about the non-Metlness of Citi Field, I would simply say to be patient. A house is not a home the day you move into it, it takes time to furnish, decorate and make it your own.[/quote:2n5xw76g] Your house may not be your home the instant you move in, but one of the first things you will do is hang photos of your kids, or if you don't have kids, your wedding day, or some great trip you've been on, or one of your old favorite pets...to remind yourself and your guests of the life you had before your new house. metsmarathon Apr 22 2009 09:11 AM it took us a few months before we started hanging things on teh walls - we wanted to make sure the pictures were in the right spots relative to where the furniture was and how we were going to use the rooms. not that i'm convinced at all that that's how the metsies were approaching it.. but still... Vic Sage Apr 22 2009 09:13 AM i have a suggestion to fix 3 problems at once. For next season, the should move the fences in 5'-10', from Left-Center to Right-Center (which now goes out to 415 feet!). This would: 1) make the park more neutral, in terms of run production; 2) allow folks in the corner upper decks to actually see the outfield plays in those areas; and 3) provide a corridor for a Mets HOF, like the old monuments area in Yankee stadium, accessible via the CF promenade food court before and after games. Rotblatt Apr 29 2009 09:50 AM I've been to two games so far (Secion 403) and have really enjoyed the stadium. The view of the back right-field corner is obstructed, but it hasn't really bothered me (had the same problem on the opposite field at Shea from Section 28, Loge Reserved, plus I couldn't see the scoreboard). For me, the sightlines are obstructed because they made the decision to put the fans closer to the field. If they'd widened the foul ground all around the perimeter by a couple of feet, I'm guessing they'd have dramatically improved the sightlines; instead, they decided to try and make the stadium more intimate. You can argue with that choice, but for me, they succeeded. Of course, if I had Vic's seats, I'd probably be less sanguine about the whole thing. . . Anyway, I'm a fan of the open feel of the stadium; walking around the park before games has been a real treat--as has the food. ]To all the fans lamenting about the non-Metlness of Citi Field, I would simply say to be patient. A house is not a home the day you move into it, it takes time to furnish, decorate and make it your own. Agreed. In a few years, I think we'll wonder what all the fuss was about. ]i have a suggestion to fix 3 problems at once. For next season, the should move the fences in 5'-10', from Left-Center to Right-Center (which now goes out to 415 feet!). This would: 1) make the park more neutral, in terms of run production; 2) allow folks in the corner upper decks to actually see the outfield plays in those areas; and 3) provide a corridor for a Mets HOF, like the old monuments area in Yankee stadium, accessible via the CF promenade food court before and after games. I'm down with this suggestion, especially if CitiField keeps playing the way it has (although I do like all the triples). LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 29 2009 10:04 AM Went on Saturday for my first reg-season visit of the year. The loudest cheers on Saturday (8-2, Pelf goes 5.2, relative offensive explosion) were ALSO during the wave. Well, it's unseasonably warm, I figured, and the look-sees are probably a pretty sizable plurality on an early Saturday in a new stadium. Let them have their look-see... it'll be different during a midweek game, no? Well, the loudest cheers last night (4-7 loss, Livan pitches decently, Sheff hits a friggin' triple!) were again for the stadium-wide wave... that occurred while Parnell was trying to put out a Marlins rally. No two-strike clapping, no "LGM" chants-- apart from some smatterings in the Promenade-- unless the scoreboard demanded it, and only WHILE the scoreboard demanded it, and no standing. At all. I'm not sure if passive fan behavior is a commentary on the stadium but if having less comfort made Shea the place it was for the diehards, I will gladly surrender my Shake Shack. To me, the prospect of poor sightlines doesn't rankle nearly as much as the prospect of our becoming MFY fans in orange... or something boo-happily worse. Ceetar Apr 29 2009 10:30 AM Thrilled I'm thrilled with the new park, although I do agree that I could do with more pictures and such. Name the concessions after old Mets, put at least the Mets logo in those barren stairwells. Some things I noticed in this thread: The Acela Club. I'm 99% this is the Diamond Club, where you basically have to have a premium ticket and _then_ make reservations. The Promenade Club is indeed only for the infield 400level promenade sections. The Club's kinda overrated (i was there for the Sox game). It's got TVs, a full bar, and standard ballpark fare that you can just as easily get right behind it in the food court area. Due to the handicap seats, the cameras, and the sections in front of you, you really can't see home plate from inside. Especially if the fans stand up. I heard a rumor that they were going to start letting _everyone_ on the Promenade in, but if that's the case it'll become the most overcrowded horrible area anyway, especially if it's cold. I'd avoid the LF outfield seats on the top two levels if I could, but I'm happy with every other view. A couple of blocked corners, but that's nothing new. The standing room, especially on the Promenade where feels like basically watching the game from the Mezz tunnels at Shea, but without being in anyone's way, are excellent. The field level standing views are nice too, come with tables and cup holders, but get crowded. The food is pretty much amazing, and you can get the regular stuff too. The beer selection, 29+ and counting, and 'only $7.50 for premium, is excellent too. I wouldn't buy beer at Shea because I wouldn't overpay for crap, but now I will. Some of the beers are even exclusive to Citi Field. I miss Shea, but I'm quickly falling in love with this place. themetfairy Apr 29 2009 11:08 AM As of last weekend, the Promenade Club is now open to all fans. We didn't buy anything there Sunday, but we scoped the place out. Any place that has a chop salad made to order is good in my book. John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 29 2009 11:27 AM I just wanted in to the Promenade club because I had frostbite. themetfairy Apr 29 2009 12:38 PM FWIW, the view in there suxx. But it does have climate control. Centerfield Apr 29 2009 01:10 PM ="Vic Sage":68r4yy2v]i have a suggestion to fix 3 problems at once. For next season, the should move the fences in 5'-10', from Left-Center to Right-Center (which now goes out to 415 feet!). This would: 1) make the park more neutral, in terms of run production; 2) allow folks in the corner upper decks to actually see the outfield plays in those areas; and 3) provide a corridor for a Mets HOF, like the old monuments area in Yankee stadium, accessible via the CF promenade food court before and after games.[/quote:68r4yy2v] Yup. And give me a uniform, 8 foot wall so Carlos can gloriously rob HR's. I keep thinking of Pratt's home run just over Finley's glove and how we can never have a moment like that here. metsmarathon Apr 29 2009 01:29 PM can dwight howard play centerfield? he might get up near the top of them fences... Fman99 Jun 26 2009 07:27 AM Reviving this thread after my first trip to the new park. 1. The parking situation is abhorrent. I envy those of you who are in easy reach of mass transit options to the park. We had to park across the street from the Citi Field parking lot, even though THOSE lots were not filled out, in a very disorganized lot by the train platform. Took 25 minutes to exit said lot and 15 minutes to find a spot to park in the first place, with virtually no employee guidance on where to go. Also a pointless wait for my change despite paying cash. Whiff. Add a two hour escape across the Grand Central, Triboro and Deegan to that and now you're living my day. 2. The rotunda is really sharp. Didn't linger as it was about 12:55 by the time Fboy and I got in the building. Liked the 'greeters' out front though, nice touch. 3. We didn't try and get food from any of the higher end, funkier choices because of time. Just shot up to the Promenade and had dogs and fries from Nathan's which were fine. Sad that I couldn't get a knish on the top deck, ah well. 4. The view from the Promendae is nice. It's an upper deck, and calling it the "promenade" is a bit farcical to me, but we were 10 or so rows from the top and I thought the view was solid. The two huge screens in center and right/center are a nice touch also for replays, stats, etc. 5. So many plugs, commercials and "contests" between innings and during pitching changes. Just a bombardment of it, really, and not as much time to appreciate the sounds of the crowd. It seemed like way more than what we used to get at Shea. 6. Fboy rocked the kids batting tee/field in the kids' zone. I liked having the gift shop out there too -- we did his batting thing (2 innings lost), and then got him a souvenier baseball and moved on. Skipped the pitching cages and the other crudola out there. Some of those kids sucked at tee ball. Older than Fboy and couldn't hit and ran to third instead of first. What are they pod people? Fboy hit three frozen ropes and loved it. 7. It was super cool to meet MetFairy, MiniKnight and G-Fafif. I couldn't stay with them for long because their seats were in the sun and Fboy handles that like milk on a hotplate. Still, voices to faces is always good. They got the PG version of Fman, due to Fboy being in tow, but it counts. I'll be going back, maybe this year. Edgy DC Jun 26 2009 07:34 AM Yeah, I've meaining to gently tell you that your kid needs some pigment therapy. themetfairy Jun 26 2009 08:21 AM They have Nathan's knishes on the Promenade level (and I'm pretty sure at the Kosher stand on that level also) - When you diet the way I do, you get well acquainted with all of the food choices (especially those which have only 170 calories). It was great meeting you in person - thanks for stopping by Nymr83 Jun 26 2009 10:27 AM the kosher-stand knishes are AMAZING, they are like giant garlic knots filled with potato. ]1. The parking situation is abhorrent. I envy those of you who are in easy reach of mass transit options to the park. We had to park across the street from the Citi Field parking lot, even though THOSE lots were not filled out, in a very disorganized lot by the train platform. Took 25 minutes to exit said lot and 15 minutes to find a spot to park in the first place, with virtually no employee guidance on where to go. Also a pointless wait for my change despite paying cash. Whiff i've been in that lot and once took nearly an hour to get out of there. of course i was with a girl and made good use of the time. metirish Jun 26 2009 10:41 AM ="Nymr83"]the kosher-stand knishes are AMAZING, they are like giant garlic knots filled with potato. ]1. The parking situation is abhorrent. I envy those of you who are in easy reach of mass transit options to the park. We had to park across the street from the Citi Field parking lot, even though THOSE lots were not filled out, in a very disorganized lot by the train platform. Took 25 minutes to exit said lot and 15 minutes to find a spot to park in the first place, with virtually no employee guidance on where to go. Also a pointless wait for my change despite paying cash. Whiff i've been in that lot and once took nearly an hour to get out of there. of course i was with a girl and made good use of the time. You lectured her on the constitution and the need to " fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here" G-Fafif Jun 26 2009 10:45 AM ="metirish"]="Nymr83"]the kosher-stand knishes are AMAZING, they are like giant garlic knots filled with potato. ]1. The parking situation is abhorrent. I envy those of you who are in easy reach of mass transit options to the park. We had to park across the street from the Citi Field parking lot, even though THOSE lots were not filled out, in a very disorganized lot by the train platform. Took 25 minutes to exit said lot and 15 minutes to find a spot to park in the first place, with virtually no employee guidance on where to go. Also a pointless wait for my change despite paying cash. Whiff i've been in that lot and once took nearly an hour to get out of there. of course i was with a girl and made good use of the time. You lectured her on the constitution and the need to " fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here" Sounds more like what to do in the parking lot leaving the Atlantic League All-Star Game. Fman99 Jun 26 2009 10:47 AM ="themetfairy"]They have Nathan's knishes on the Promenade level (and I'm pretty sure at the Kosher stand on that level also) - When you diet the way I do, you get well acquainted with all of the food choices (especially those which have only 170 calories). It was great meeting you in person - thanks for stopping by Now I'm bummed. I just stopped at the first Promenade spot that we saw because I didn't want to miss the start of the game and there were no knishes at that specific one. I did not venture further in search of them. Ah well, I'll have to search that out next time I guess. themetfairy Jun 26 2009 10:58 AM Ya got any food questions next time, let me know. I'm in the zone LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 26 2009 11:11 AM ="themetfairy":kn892bgt]Ya got any food questions next time, let me know. I'm in the zone [/quote:kn892bgt] I'm all about the fat, bad-for-you, mood-changing shit when at the ballpark. So if you need a concessions guide on your OTHER shoulder... themetfairy Jun 26 2009 11:39 AM You're assuming that I haven't tried out Shake Shack, Blue Smoke, etc. Faulty assumption. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 26 2009 12:11 PM @ TMF: Misinterpreted "in the zone." Thoughts on the Shack and the 'cue? (You sounded... uneffusive in earlier posts.) Frankly, unless I'm getting there late, or with someone who's gunshy about the line, I'm on the Double Shack like white on Ellen DeGeneres. Underratedly delicious: Beer-steamed hot dog at Catch of the Day. It's subtly sweet, and even tastier than the Nathan's-- perfect with just a dab of moutarde. Swan Swan H Jun 26 2009 12:33 PM The Double Shack and a black and white shake are bliss. The pulled pork and ribs from Blue Smoke are right there as well. The fries at Shake Shack are fine, and Box Frites fries are awesome, but the best fries I had on our tour came from Catch of the Day. For all I know they're the same as the others, but they were just perfect the day we had them. Can't go wrong with any of them, though, and the dips at Box Frites, especially the bacon, are killer. The only disappointment from any of the new stands was the shrimp po' boy. Too mustard-seedy for my tongue, but lots of folks rave. Monster shrimp done right on a delicious roll, the dressing was just not to my taste. themetfairy Jun 26 2009 12:43 PM Did Shake Shack during the batting practice day in April. The burger was good, but not worth the huge line that you get most days. Really liked the shake - had more of it than I planned on (was sharing with MK). Did Blue Smoke yesterday - shared a pulled pork sandwich with MK. Tasty, but a bit on the fatty side. Box Frite fries are overrated - the big deal with those are the dipping sauces. Nathan's fries are much better (and more available throughout the park). BTW, the garlic fries from the World's Fare Market are too light on the garlic/too heavy on the salt. Didn't try the dog at Catch of the Day. With respect to the chowder and the calamari - good for ballpark food, but not great overall. The shrimp cocktail salad isn't much of a salad - some nice jumbo shrimp, but just a bed of lettuce with it. Shared the taco combo plate yesterday, and found it very tasty. The corn on the cob at the taco place is buttered and spiced - a little odd, but tasty. Next on my hit list is to try the eggplant parm hero at the Italian place on the concourse. Benjamin Grimm Jun 26 2009 12:46 PM Is that Mama's of Corona? (They have a location on the roof of the Rotunda.) When we were there, I had the turkey/mozzarella hero. (I loved being able to order a "hero" instead of a "hoagie" by the way.) themetfairy Jun 26 2009 12:51 PM ="Benjamin Grimm":a6ixasn8]Is that Mama's of Corona? (They have a location on the roof of the Rotunda.) When we were there, I had the turkey/mozzarella hero. (I loved being able to order a "hero" instead of a "hoagie" by the way.)[/quote:a6ixasn8] No - the eggplant parm is at Nonna Delia's. I've done Mama's of Corona a lot for the grilled chicken salad and I tried the antipasto salad once. Those are my go-to meals when I'm hungry and want something light. And the tomatoes and mozzerella from there is REALLY tasty! Mama's is on the Promenade Level food court, and is also available in the World's Fare Market. Sushi is also in the World's Fare Market. I had a taste once, and enjoyed it. Will do it again later in the season. One hint - if you want Carvel ice cream, and the line at the Carvel stand is long, just go to one of the regular concession stands; they have the same ice cream there. BTW, if you're looking for coffee, there's a Dunkin' Donuts stand to the left after you take the stairs/escalator up through the Jackie Robinson Rotunda (there's other coffee throughout the park, but Dunkin' is better). There's also a Subway there (and on the Promenade level food court) if you're looking to count calories with a quick sandwich. soupcan Jun 26 2009 12:59 PM You guys that complain about the Shake Shack line are doing it wrong. Before the game starts the line is much more manageable. 10-15 minutes tops. During a game you could be stranded out there for 2-3 innings. I'm all about the Double Shack with a black & white. metirish Jun 26 2009 01:01 PM I didn't get to Shake Shack when I was there , better planning like soup says is the trick...when you order the ribs do you get a good slab or what? Benjamin Grimm Jun 26 2009 01:04 PM When I was there, the line was pretty darn long about 45 minutes prior to game time. Maybe it was short compared to during the game. I don't know, we didn't head back that way again. G-Fafif Jun 26 2009 01:06 PM My brother-in-law said he waited 45 minutes for Shake Shack last Sunday and was thrilled. He hates baseball. G-Fafif Jun 26 2009 01:07 PM ="metirish":1esm0zgl]I didn't get to Shake Shack when I was there , better planning like soup says is the trick...when you order the ribs do you get a good slab or what?[/quote:1esm0zgl] I witnessed an order being consumed the other night: five big ribs. Does not look unfilling. Swan Swan H Jun 26 2009 01:16 PM My daughter's office just moved across the street from Madison Square Park, home of the original Shake Shack. I am beyond jealous. themetfairy Jun 26 2009 01:29 PM BTW, one nice thing about Citi Field is the ability to find a condiments station throughout the park. I love sauerkraut, and I appreciate being able to take as much as I want for my Nathan's dog (or any other dog you choose). LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Jun 26 2009 01:58 PM ="soupcan"]You guys that complain about the Shake Shack line are doing it wrong. Before the game starts the line is much more manageable. 10-15 minutes tops. During a game you could be stranded out there for 2-3 innings. I'm all about the Double Shack with a black & white. Indeed. Definitely pregame. An hour before gametime, it's a quick 20 (especially if you bring a beer and a companion). When the line spills past the sausage and peppers stand nearby, it's time to have some tacos or ribs. I'm okay with the pork. I dig on the ribs (4-5 bronto-sized dry rubbed beauts) and the sweet-and-tangy wings (usually prefer mine hot-- but these are succulent and not cloyingly sweet). ="themetfairy"]BTW, one nice thing about Citi Field is the ability to find a condiments station throughout the park. I love sauerkraut, and I appreciate being able to take as much as I want for my Nathan's dog (or any other dog you choose). Also, multiple kinds of mustard. And the availability of Mama's in the hoi-palloi food court is the double truth, Ruth. G-Fafif Jun 29 2009 12:12 AM First time with the Blue Smoke spare ribs Sunday night, before the game. Culinary highlight of the season. Obviously the highlight of Sunday night. sharpie Jun 29 2009 07:03 AM My first time at Citifield last night. Went to the Smoke Shack for the pulled pork. Loved it. Great beer at that beer garden place as well. Later, went for another beer at one of the regular beer stands. I notice the guy is pouring two. I note that I only ordered one and he said he misunderstood me. He charged me for one, but gave me two. I like it. The seats, via KC, had their problems. First row of the upper deck which meant you watch home plate through plexiglass and between railings. The "Let's Go Yankees" alternating with the "Yankees Suck" chants were mostly happening elsewhere until the end when the MFY fans began to predominate. From where we sat it sounded like the same people were invoking both chants so that people were yelling "Let's go Yankees Yankees Suck." The worst was the MFY fans at the subway station gloating. Other than that, and the outcome, we enjoyed ourselves. dgwphotography Jun 29 2009 07:25 AM ="G-Fafif":1mhncrh7]Opposing relievers are psyched out by their proximity to the old Home Run Apple.[/quote:1mhncrh7] Standing on the mound, and facing the Mets' lineup is quite the elixir, though... Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 09:22 AM does Blue Smoke have any good fish? themetfairy Jun 29 2009 09:36 AM ="Nymr83":1m4bprs9]does Blue Smoke have any good fish?[/quote:1m4bprs9] I don't think it has fish - it's ribs, pulled pork, etc. For fish you want Catch of the Day (between the World's Fare Market and the Willie Mays Bridge). metirish Jun 29 2009 09:40 AM Does Catch of the day have ribs? Nymr83 Jun 29 2009 09:46 AM ="themetfairy":3u3vk04a]="Nymr83":3u3vk04a]does Blue Smoke have any good fish?[/quote:3u3vk04a] I don't think it has fish - it's ribs, pulled pork, etc. For fish you want Catch of the Day (between the World's Fare Market and the Willie Mays Bridge).[/quote:3u3vk04a] the worlds fair market had some awesome cheesecake. i missed catch of the day i guess John Cougar Lunchbucket Jun 29 2009 09:46 AM ="metirish":1ygl4iu9]Does Catch of the day have ribs?[/quote:1ygl4iu9] lol themetfairy Jun 29 2009 11:58 AM ="metirish":30lozeih]Does Catch of the day have ribs?[/quote:30lozeih] If it's a serious question, the answer is no. Calamari, chowder, other fish dishes. But I give a thumbs down to the shrimp cocktail salad - nice shrimp, but not much of a salad (and I tend to rely on entree salads to get through games). metirish Jul 14 2009 07:36 AM A mid-season report from Mark Hermann , not that that means much but there is a bit of news regarding Citi field A tale of two new ballparks BY MARK HERRMANN | mark.herrmann@newsday.com 9:58 PM EDT, July 13, 2009 ] This just proves that all rookies need a while to settle in, even a pair that came in together with a massive buildup and a combined $2.3-billion price tag. All that New York can say to the new Yankee Stadium and Citi Field after a sometimes rocky, sometimes pretty first half-season is what the city always says to a bonus baby: Welcome to the big leagues, kid. The new homes for the Yankees and Mets sure were the talk of the town, as expected. It's just that the clubs who built the stadiums (or, as they prefer, a stadium and a ballpark) never imagined the conversation would be about obstructed views, empty seats, muted tradition and, above all, too many or too few home runs. Everyone in the big leagues has heard the buzz. In his first hour as a Met on Saturday, former Brave Jeff Francoeur said: "You're not going to go out and hit 45 home runs in this park. If you want to do that, you've got to go 10 miles down the road." Nothing like each other Yes, the park built for intimacy is playing like the Grand Canyon and the stadium built for grand stature is playing like a neighborhood slow-pitch softball diamond. Yankee Stadium, next door to the slowly disappearing old Yankee Stadium, has become the Cape Canaveral of ballparks. It's a launching pad for four-base hits and one-liners. It has been called Coors Field East because it appeared to be a challenger to break the Denver stadium's record for homers in a season (303). Citi Field, next door to the vanished Shea Stadium (now a parking lot), has become baseball's Great Plains, a paradigm for the Mets' offensive drought. The first reason cited for acquiring Francoeur was that he is good enough to track down balls in the roomy, quirky outfield. Even for a couple of phenoms, replacing a combined 129 years of history isn't easy. Both clubs (especially the Mets) point out that most fans really like the new parks. And as for the kinks, each side said it is working on them. Back in March, the Yankees reduced the prices of some bleacher seats that didn't have full views. In April, in the face of ridicule over the sight of so many empty, padded premium seats right near the field, they announced a huge markdown and/or rebate, especially on the $2,500 tickets. They'll let it play out A Yankees spokesman said Monday that the club is not commenting on the Stadium now, instead choosing to see how the rest of the season goes. Hal Steinbrenner, the managing general partner, recently did send out e-mails to some customers inviting them to meetings at the Stadium or Rockefeller Center, and "telling us how we are doing and how we can make the 'Yankee Stadium Experience.' " Bloggers have objected to relentless promotions on the public address system, the fact that Monument Park is basically hidden behind the centerfield fence and that the place just doesn't have the electric feel that the building next door had. Visiting players have privately said the new Stadium is not as verbally intimidating as the old. Blue Jays first baseman Kevin Millar, formerly of the Red Sox, said he preferred the original: "I got booed a lot louder. I like to get booed. I don't know if it's all corporate, but they're too nice to me here." Home of the home run The real major story, though, is the long ball. The Stadium's home run binge isn't what it was, but it still is booming. The total of 142 through 42 games is on pace for 274, as opposed to 160 next door last year. In 46 road games, the Yankees and their opponents have hit only 102. At first, the Yankees blamed it on the weather, but a meteorologist disputed that, releasing a study backing the contention of hittrackeronline.com. It attributed the power surge to the lack of curvature in the rightfield wall (to accommodate a vintage-looking auxiliary scoreboard), effectively making the field smaller. Early in the season, A.J. Burnett spoke on behalf of all pitchers when he said, "This ballpark, obviously, is in your head." But the Yankees have won 20 of their past 29 at home, to which reliever Phil Coke said, "Even though, early on, it seemed like this place was going to yield the same amount in home runs as it did [in dollars] to build it, we're going to get the job done." Manager Joe Girardi said last week: "I love coming here; the players love coming here. Even though our ballpark has so much to offer and has so many new things, I think a lot of people have seen a lot of it and I think now the game is the main attraction. I don't know because I'm not in the stands, I'm not in the Great Hall, I'm not in the restaurants, but that's just kind of a feeling I get." Not enough Mets Dave Howard, the Mets' executive vice president for business, said Citi Field has been "extremely well received," with people commenting even on their reception in the parking lot. He did acknowledge early-season criticisms: Some seats have obstructed views and that there is less celebration of Mets history than the Brooklyn Dodgers' legacy. As much as there was a "good riddance" feeling about Shea, there was an uproar Sunday when one of its traditions, the apple, failed to pop out of the centerfield hat for the second of two home runs. "We've heard our fans," he said. So, he said, the Mets received permission from Major League Baseball to show the live feed on video screens the instant the ball is in play, allowing fans to follow action they might not see live. Also, an additional video board will be installed in the rightfield corner after the All-Star break. Howard added that more Mets memories will be reflected with displays in the park this summer, and that there are bigger long-term plans to give the place a Mets atmosphere. Whether they will make it a more hitter-friendly atmosphere by bringing in the fences or lowering the walls is a decision for the offseason. Howard did say that if the Mets are healthy, the park can work to their advantage because of their gap hitters, fly ball-oriented pitchers and mobile centerfielder and rightfielder. Backup centerfielder Angel Pagan said, "I need room to gallop, so this is the right place." Howard said, "I think it gets in other teams' heads, too." The question is, does it get in Mets' heads, especially David Wright's? There is some feeling that he and other Mets have taken their Citi Field swings on the road, where they have hit even fewer home runs than they have at home (24 to 28). "You have to adjust your approach, you have to adjust your philosophy to this ballpark because it's not a launching pad,'' Wright said. "It's not a place where you're going to go out and get a lot of cheap home runs." Gary Sheffield, who had a fondness for Shea ever since his uncle Dwight Gooden pitched there, said: "I love Citi Field. The atmosphere is electric. It's a challenge, but if you hit the ball square, it goes out." The half-season has not been a solid hit or a full whiff for either park. But this week will be big in both spots. Yankee Stadium will import memories from next door with Oldtimers Day on Sunday. Citi Field will strike a chord with concerts by Paul McCartney, who played Shea with the Beatles in 1965, and with Billy Joel, who helped close down Shea last year. Having gotten into heads and under skin, the two rookies, clearly here to stay, are trying to make their way into people's hearts. Frayed Knot Jul 14 2009 07:39 AM ="metirish":2cq4yf7v]Does Catch of the day have ribs?[/quote:2cq4yf7v] I think most fish have ribs, yes. dgwphotography Jul 14 2009 07:57 AM We made the shake shack our first stop after getting off the subway on Sunday... We got a table and walked right up and placed an order with no line at all.... metirish Jul 14 2009 08:02 AM ="Frayed Knot":3n1il63q]="metirish":3n1il63q]Does Catch of the day have ribs?[/quote:3n1il63q] I think most fish have ribs, yes.[/quote:3n1il63q] tis true.......I got our smart assed.... metirish Jul 14 2009 08:02 AM ="dgwphotography":2ccowj6z]We made the shake shack our first stop after getting off the subway on Sunday... We got a table and walked right up and placed an order with no line at all....[/quote:2ccowj6z] not told here is the dgwp was carrying a gun. DocTee Jul 14 2009 08:06 AM Mebbe the Mets should bring this guy aboard: [url:r0m1vf1g]http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/07/14/SPE718LA3T.DTL[/url:r0m1vf1g] dgwphotography Jul 14 2009 08:06 AM ="metirish":37oc76h5]="dgwphotography":37oc76h5]We made the shake shack our first stop after getting off the subway on Sunday... We got a table and walked right up and placed an order with no line at all....[/quote:37oc76h5] not told here is the dgwp was carrying a gun.[/quote:37oc76h5] LOL - I just a pretty big lens... Not my fault if they mistook it for a weapon... The view from the 7... bmfc1 Jul 14 2009 09:38 AM http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-spparks1412966058jul13,0,6093781.story Some changes will be made to CF. What gets me that management had to "hear" from the fans before realizing that we want Mets history to be incorporated into a Mets ballpark. A smarter management would have built a team HOF right away instead of as an afterthought. A smarter management would have kept a panel or two from the Shea OF fence in place (if it didn't impede traffic) as both an historical marker and a meeting place. metsguyinmichigan Jul 14 2009 10:28 AM ="dgwphotography":72k07gfl]="metirish":72k07gfl]="dgwphotography":72k07gfl]We made the shake shack our first stop after getting off the subway on Sunday... We got a table and walked right up and placed an order with no line at all....[/quote:72k07gfl] not told here is the dgwp was carrying a gun.[/quote:72k07gfl] LOL - I just a pretty big lens... Not my fault if they mistook it for a weapon... The view from the 7... [/quote:72k07gfl] Beautiful photo! It really is a nice-looking ballpark. Benjamin Grimm Jul 14 2009 10:59 AM ="metsguyinmichigan":123rtddu] Beautiful photo! [/quote:123rtddu] I agree! ="metsguyinmichigan":123rtddu] It really is a nice-looking ballpark.[/quote:123rtddu] I agree with that, too. I only wish it was closer to Manhattan. metirish Jul 14 2009 11:01 AM Why closer to Manhattan when you live closer to Philly? the image is very beautiful , great capture. Benjamin Grimm Jul 14 2009 11:04 AM I wasn't thinking of my own convenience. I just think the stadium would be better located closer to Manhattan so they'd be able to get more of the after-work crowd. Vic Sage Jul 14 2009 11:56 AM its easy to get there after work. It's a 35 minute ride on the 7 train, or less on the LIRR. The problem is driving during rush hour, but that would be the problem even if you drove to the east side from the west side. G-Fafif Jul 14 2009 12:20 PM Great picture, no surprise, considering the lensman. Park and setting still need to be surrounded by a city block for full effect. Otherwise it still smacks of Arlington Comes to Flushing rather than homage to St. Ebbets. Farmer Ted Jul 15 2009 03:28 PM Took in the game on Sunday. First time to Citi. Had recent trips to PNC and Safeco so I was anxious to do a some comparison shopping. Overall a definite A. I got there early so I was literally the first person to the Shake Shack. Yum. Only an hour before game time and the place was mobbed. So here are my drawbacks: 1. Food court. Serious congestion here before and during the game. Put a destination location at the stadium and everyone flocks to it. I say tear down some of the junk yards across the street, install a foot bridge, and put some more fun stuff over there to ease the food mess. 2. Concourse width not enough. Then again, maybe the concourse is wide enough but you lose 10 feet of space with the cashier ropes that jut out from the food counters. Who thought of this traffic nightmare? 3. Home Run apple. I'll give a pass to the apple not coming up for Tatis' home run. I was turned away trying to get to the OLD apple since there was a private reception on that level. Fuckers. I was impressed with the staff at the game. Tons of staff in an array of colored shirts. Lady behind me got up in between innings and the schmuck behind her spilled beer on her seat. Dude was sloshed and subsequently tossed by security for being "that guy". No fewer than five staff showed up including one supervisor to wash down and scrub around her seat. NEVER saw that at Shea or any other stadium. I had the usher nazi in my section. No ticket, get out. Ninth inning and want to sneak down for a closer look? Tough shit. The place looked great. Still a bit sad about the vacant parking lot next to it. Surprised to see the brackets holding up piping in the stadium were rusting. Yeah, rusting. Speaking of Rust. No homage to Rusty Staub? Boog Powell and Greg Luzinski have their food pits. Until the area around the stadium is cleaned up, Safeco and PNC still get a slight edge for convenience and accessibility. I was happy that the place turned out to be a top flight facility. Ashie62 Jul 15 2009 08:25 PM ="metirish":fl693ser]Why closer to Manhattan when you live closer to Philly? the image is very beautiful , great capture.[/quote:fl693ser] Wish it was closer to Newark...sorry..train goes there dgwphotography Jul 16 2009 11:45 AM ="G-Fafif":19bf1wye]Great picture, no surprise, considering the lensman.[/quote:19bf1wye] This takes me back to the writing in those 1970's yearbooks.... ="G-Fafif":19bf1wye]Park and setting still need to be surrounded by a city block for full effect. Otherwise it still smacks of Arlington Comes to Flushing rather than homage to St. Ebbets.[/quote:19bf1wye] This is an excellent point - I oddly felt more in place when standing line for the the Mr. Met dash by the chop shops... G-Fafif Jul 16 2009 12:50 PM I think CF looks best when viewed from 126th St, though that's not really the ballpark. The admin building looks like a civic institution there, like a school or post office from the 1930s. Fits into a neighborhood even if the neighborhood isn't there. I like the back end of it, supporting the Willie Mays Bridge and the Pepsi Porch, as viewed from the Promenade as well. A bit of an OP@CY warehouse feel. Just a bit.

="metirish"]Anyway this is the third year of All Hollows being homeless as it were. Oh. Well that's a horse of a different color.

The Yankees or the Gaels? I believe they have begun the deconstruction of YSII.

Isn't the field at YSII being saved as part of one of those parks which the community would have access to? And if that's true, and by next year All Hallows new home field is the old Yankee Stadium field (just speculatin' here), then I bet that the school admins and players would say that a season or two of inconvenience its worth it. I'm sure it would be pretty cool as high school ballplayer from the Bronx to play your games on what is kinda-sorta the same field that Ruth & Gehrig played on. P.S. Not that it matters but my dad and my uncle are All Hallows alum.

Figuroa - 2.25 Santos - 2 Reyes - 1.75 Murphy - 1.5 Delgado - 1 Green - .75 Parnell - .75

I didn't try to get in the club but it's my understanding that there is in fact a specific club for everyone who has a tcket. I'll find out the deal with the promenade seats.

="John Cougar Lunchbucket"]It was more or less like Mezz 10 from a box. My issues with the stadium are minor: * Like you said, far lefthand corner is an issue, mostly for fair/foul. * Lineup wasn't posted on the scoreboard when I got there. Camon. * Can't see the bullpens. * The advertisements for power equipment rentals or whatever on either side of the videoboard looked like crap. * Wouldn't let us into the "Promenade Club" I thought we could at least get into one bar?! * Difficult to determine one game from the next on the "Detailed" OoTS. * Colder and windier than Shea. Did you also sit next to "Bill" from san Diego & Amityville? He was a scream. The view from the seats to the 'pen isn't obstructed though. If there were no ads, you'd be able to see no problem. Why they don't just move those two ads to other points on the wall I have no idea. The cheesy ads - power equipment, some random 'auto group', Bob's Discount Furniture - don't bother me. Like Edgy said - adds to the kitsch. True they wouldn't look as bad on the sides of the scoreboard if they weren't so busy. Only issue I had with the OoTS was that there are spaces on it to show runners on base in each game but not one time in any game being played did I see one of those baserunner lights lit. It was windy and cool up there, even yesterday, but it is April. Didn't sit next to Bill - family on my right side, three orthodox jewish teenage girls tee-hee-heeing about David Wright the whole game on my left.

="Benjamin Grimm":11i23pce]="G-Fafif":11i23pce]="Benjamin Grimm":11i23pce]If a Mets loss can put you in a bad mood, then you're caring too much.[/quote:11i23pce] If a Mets win can put you in a good mood, does that also mean you're caring too much?[/quote:11i23pce] No, it means you have found the proper balance. Each win during the 2006 post-season thrilled me. But after Beltran took that third strike, I went to bed and slept soundly. No angst, no tooth-gnashing. It's just a game. And it's being played by a bunch of strangers. We're all (mostly) middle-aged here. We should have attained a certain amount of perspective by now.[/quote:11i23pce] Grimm is the man. I aspire to be like him. Truly, I do. I want them to win on Saturdays so my time with the sports section on Sunday morning with my coffee is that much more enjioyable. GYC Apr 20 2009 11:43 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":2970ftbo]="G-Fafif":2970ftbo]="Benjamin Grimm":2970ftbo]If a Mets loss can put you in a bad mood, then you're caring too much.[/quote:2970ftbo] If a Mets win can put you in a good mood, does that also mean you're caring too much?[/quote:2970ftbo] No, it means you have found the proper balance. Each win during the 2006 post-season thrilled me. But after Beltran took that third strike, I went to bed and slept soundly. No angst, no tooth-gnashing. It's just a game. And it's being played by a bunch of strangers. We're all (mostly) middle-aged here. We should have attained a certain amount of perspective by now.[/quote:2970ftbo] Blasphemy. I lost sleep over that game, much like I did with Doug Fucking Brien's missed kick in Pittsburgh in the 2004 Divisional game. Benjamin Grimm Apr 20 2009 11:50 AM Call it blasphemy if you like, but I'm the one who isn't losing sleep over ballgames. Gwreck Apr 20 2009 11:50 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 20 2009 11:55 AM ="Benjamin Grimm":7ssos7v8]="G-Fafif":7ssos7v8]="Benjamin Grimm":7ssos7v8]If a Mets loss can put you in a bad mood, then you're caring too much.[/quote:7ssos7v8] If a Mets win can put you in a good mood, does that also mean you're caring too much?[/quote:7ssos7v8] No, it means you have found the proper balance. Each win during the 2006 post-season thrilled me. But after Beltran took that third strike, I went to bed and slept soundly. No angst, no tooth-gnashing. It's just a game. And it's being played by a bunch of strangers. We're all (mostly) middle-aged here. We should have attained a certain amount of perspective by now.[/quote:7ssos7v8] Maybe it's just me -- or the limitations of written text versus speech -- but my reaction after reading this is that you're being way too preachy. I'll react exactly how I care to feel when the Mets lose or win, thank you very much. There's no need to pass judgment on how people root for their team (unless they're claiming to be both Mets and Yankees fans). I suppose I could respond that if you went to bed after that Game 7 loss like it was any other night, then you didn't care enough. Instead, I'll offer that true perspective is the ability to realize that not everybody is going to care the same exact amount as you are, and that difference is not cause to pass judgment. metirish Apr 20 2009 11:54 AM I kind of thought CF was being a bit tongue in cheek. Benjamin Grimm Apr 20 2009 12:03 PM I'm not passing judgment, just offering my own perspective. If you think I don't care enough, that's fine, but I think it's better to care less than to care more. And I seem to care less this year than ever before. I even thought (very briefly) about shutting down the UMDB rather than gear up for the 2009 season, but since maintaining the site doesn't require that much daily effort, I dismissed that thought. Gwreck Apr 20 2009 12:07 PM I get your perspective just fine. Use of the word "you" suggests the commentary was on others. Benjamin Grimm Apr 20 2009 12:16 PM Well, then I apologize if I sounded preachy. That wasn't my intent. John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 20 2009 12:17 PM Pretty sure CF's intent was to make LOLZ Centerfield Apr 20 2009 12:26 PM By "you", he might have been referring specifically to me. Since I have stated before that I would love to get to where Grimm is in dealing with losses. The problem is I have been trying since 2006 and making very little progress. They key, of course, is that I don't want to feel any less good about wins. Which means this is probably a waste of time. The guys are right, losses in April don't really get to me that much, and this was just a DPMJFL, but Sunday losses really do suck more than others for the reasons mentioned above. If you're going to win two out of three in a weekend series, win Friday night, lose Saturday night, then win on Sunday afternoon. themetfairy Apr 20 2009 01:02 PM Since I have a Sunday-ish plan this year, I'm wholly in favor of CF's strategy. themetfairy Apr 26 2009 06:08 AM I'm hoping they heed CF's sound advice today. Kong76 Apr 26 2009 10:23 AM Hi, my name is Kong76, and I am a Metsaholic. I lose sleep sometimes after a win because I get all wound up. I lose sleep sometimes after a loss because, well, they sucked. Sometimes I wake up with last nights game in my mind instead of the brunette on the second floor with the big bazambas. Sometimes I wake up muttering, "bunting is for losers" or, "man on third with no fucking outs and we can't plate the bastard?" Don't even get me started on Looper. I plan my work, social, family, and most everything around the Mets TV and game attending schedule. I can quit anytime ... but can't think of a good enough reason to. Where's the remote? The Fish/Phils game is on early today. Ashie62 Apr 26 2009 01:43 PM ="themetfairy":7plgjsgz]I'm hoping they heed CF's sound advice today.[/quote:7plgjsgz] Maybe next week Mets Fairy, maybe next week...(weep) Frayed Knot May 03 2009 02:05 PM A no-loss Sunday!!

Sat in Promenade section 521, aisle 11 yesterday. Third base side, seats are just about at third base. The corner of leftfield is cut off (couldn't see the fan interfere with Murphy) but I didn't think that was a huge deal. Other than that I was fine with the view. Lunchables sat in these same seats last week. What did you think Johnny?

My first game attended today. I was in SoCal last week with the fam, doing the visting grampa and Disneyland thing. Luckily, the Mets were playing a SoCal team so whilst away I was able to catch a couple innings here and there. Saw Wright's 3-run jack in the opener in a bar in the Anza-Borrego desert. Saw Castro's in the Finale at ESPN Zone at Disney. Was very much looking forward to actually watching a complete game (which I was able to yesterday - and thank YOU Mr. Santana) and sitting in the new place. I read this thread and am glad to see that peeps are more positive than not. I too, thought that Figgy did a bang-up job, that Santos deserves a longer look and that it was mostly bad luck that prevented the sweep today. The crowd around me (Met fans actually cuz I was in the Promenade today) were not happy with the effort and needless to say the callers to WFAN on the ride home were incensed. I didn't see it. 2 of 3 to the Brewers. Both gritty, grind it out wins with excellent performances. Two unusual DPs today. Whatchagonnado? What's the dilly on Big Pelf? Just this start or do they know yet?

Ho-ly crap. Okay - just to clarify for you alone Steve - Craig was in fact making a joke. If I do see him again Lunchy, I'll ask him your question.

I'm in California right now and I met Roger Craig yesterday (he and my dad golf at the same club). Funny guy. We talked about the Citi Field opener tonight and he acted as if he were insulted and confused as to why the Mets asked Seaver rather than himself to throw out the first pitch.

Delgado - 2.5 Beltran - 2 Schneider - 1.5 Pelfrey - 1 Rodriguez - 1 Wright - 1 Parnell - .5 Putz - .5

That link above didn't work for me - if you had the same issue here it is... I like his Delgado 'shake' the most.

soupcan likes this

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: He's ourt No. 2 starter all of a sudeen? Good. Now go kick some patootie. LGM, YGB, YYYBBB What are you - Dutch?

Thanks for the article Irish, I missed it in yesterday's Times.

="metirish":1ruxtcxp]Tempted to go with " outfield defense" but went with " other". Other being the offense , specifically with RISP . Men left on base will be a problem this season.[/quote:1ruxtcxp] Yup. Un-clutchity-ness is my big fear. MFS62 Apr 07 2009 01:42 PM ="m.e.t.b.o.t.":irr9oxvw]m.e.t.b.o.t. worries about rust, hydrogen embrittlement, and the coefficient of thermal expansion of the various materials which constitute m.e.t.b.o.t.[/quote:irr9oxvw] Bbbbbuttttt, if you are solar powered, thermal expansion may be a necessary evil. Later Gwreck Apr 07 2009 01:43 PM I don't see the outfield defense as a problem. There was a fielding metric I remember reading that said he led the majors last year at making putouts that were outside of the "normal" CF fielding range. Church is no slouch either. I don't think hiding Murphy or Tatis or Sheffield out there for 7 or 8 innings per game is going to be a huge problem. Maybe if we wind up playing two of them at once. Edgy DC Apr 07 2009 01:44 PM m.e.t.b.o.t. is powered by the stored energy of wound springs. MFS62 Apr 07 2009 01:51 PM ="Edgy DC":1xkvuyck]m.e.t.b.o.t. is powered by the stored energy of wound springs.[/quote:1xkvuyck] Sounds like he has a lot of potential. Later metsguyinmichigan Apr 07 2009 01:52 PM ="m.e.t.b.o.t.":2p3yirhp]m.e.t.b.o.t. worries about rust, hydrogen embrittlement, and the coefficient of thermal expansion of the various materials which constitute m.e.t.b.o.t.[/quote:2p3yirhp] I think that's what happened to Aaron Heilmann last year. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 07 2009 01:57 PM ="metsguyinmichigan":3h1a2dvb]="m.e.t.b.o.t.":3h1a2dvb]m.e.t.b.o.t. worries about rust, hydrogen embrittlement, and the coefficient of thermal expansion of the various materials which constitute m.e.t.b.o.t.[/quote:3h1a2dvb] I think that's what happened to Aaron Heilmann last year.[/quote:3h1a2dvb] "What is this thing... humans call... 'boo'?" Edgy DC Apr 07 2009 02:00 PM Wound Springs, by the way, is the Minnesota birthplace of Wayne Graham. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 07 2009 02:46 PM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket"] Something like outfield D is probably too subtle a thing for the former group to latch onto. I predict they'll come out firing hate guns at Oliver Perez asnd Luis Castillo and ask questions later. Fans seemed much more tolerant of "Bad Ollie" days before the 12 mil/3 yrs. Either CitiField's acoustics are far superior to Shea's, or I heard some loud booing on Saturday. (Was laughing with my Boston fan seat neighbors about it.) Edgy DC Apr 07 2009 02:50 PM It's like they need a whipping boy. Heilman is gone and and he'll suffice. It doesn't mean he's anything different than he previously had been. OlerudOwned Apr 07 2009 03:57 PM And still my favorite player on the team to watch, for better or worse. Ashie62 Apr 07 2009 05:03 PM I worry about injuries to the SP when we have an 8 game lead in September TransMonk Apr 08 2009 07:19 AM Ben Shpigel weighs in: http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/07/ryan-churchs-role-in-2009/ Manuel said the spacious outfield, quirky angles and limited foul territory at Citi Field would make him align his outfielders differently, bunching them toward the gaps. But he also said that he is afraid of Beltran's "weighing 145 pounds" by the end of the season from all the running he'll have to do. Surrounding him with Murphy and Sheffield could make for some, umm, interesting moments out there. smg58 Apr 08 2009 08:07 AM Why all the knocks on Murphy's outfield defense? The Fielding Bible had him at +4/+5 (meaning four saved baserunners and five saved total bases relative to the average leftfielder) last year, which is very good for an inexperienced outfielder who should only get better as he gets more familiar with the position. As for Monday, I saw Murphy make a nice catch on a sinking liner a lot of leftfielders wouldn't have gotten to, and I would not consider deferring to Beltran a little late on a flyball he'd have caught as well to be a bad omen. Defense will be an issue if Sheffield gets significant playing time over Church, but there is no good reason to believe that will happen more than occasionally with a lefty starter, and probably not often at all at Citi, and never at Citi with a flyball pitcher. Otherwise, Beltran is consistently one of the top two or three centerfielders, and Church has made the top ten at his corner position each of the past two seasons despite limited playing time. I'd consider outfield defense one of our strengths, if not our biggest one. Injuries are always a concern, but you can't worry about them until they happen. I consider you guys to be my media, so I won't worry about the last two points at all. Starting pitching? Pelfrey has as much chance of going backwards as forwards, Ollie is like a box of chocolates, Maine might not be 100% or even close, and Livan had an ERA over 6 last year. THAT is a concern. metirish Apr 08 2009 08:35 AM How did it happen that Murphy got pegged as a poor or average fielder when he got called up. Who decides that? Murphy played 4 games in the Minor leagues and had a fielding % of 1.000 which itself means little but I remember when he first came up and hearing about how he'll have a tough time in LH. Seems like that then is taken as gospel in the media and fans too. Will he ever shake that tag? Edgy DC Apr 08 2009 08:35 AM The Mets also have a good defensive replacement in Jeremy Reed, and with him in left and Church in right, they can go with a three-centerfielder alignment on occasion. John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 08 2009 08:46 AM Not to knock the Fielding Bible but I'd turn to that for guys I don't see everyday. For Murphy I first trust Eyewitness Defense, which tells me he's inexperienced and not likely to make very many good plays out there while always being capable of bad ones, but that he's also not below minimum standards for a guy who hits. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 08 2009 09:42 AM ="metirish":1uv5akl1]How did it happen that Murphy got pegged as a poor or average fielder when he got called up. Who decides that? Murphy played 4 games in the Minor leagues and had a fielding % of 1.000 which itself means little but I remember when he first came up and hearing about how he'll have a tough time in LH. Seems like that then is taken as gospel in the media and fans too. Will he ever shake that tag?[/quote:1uv5akl1] Admittedly, it's a bit of an extrapolation, at best... but a reasonable one. He takes odd routes to semi-routine flyballs, seems to have a little trouble tracking flies, and very often running full clip when making routine catches (a flashing red warning sign of making late/poor judgements on balls' flight path). Given his history (At his 'first position,' 3B, DM was an E-machine... and he's put significantly less time in in the outfield) and apparent predisposition (hitting interest>>fielding interest), the visual evidence tends toward damning (if not being entirely conclusive). He's young and athletic, so that'll help make up for any misjudgements... but it won't turn him into Endy. As far as the Fielding Bible numbers... wait a year or three (53 chances does not a representative sample size make). If he puts up good defensive numbers, then I'll be willing to chalk up the aesthetic ugliness as just that. (And hey... I'm just looking for him to be decent/non-embarrassing with a glove on his hand, personally.) LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 08 2009 09:44 AM ="Edgy DC":3aya22fi]The Mets also have a good defensive replacement in Jeremy Reed, and with him in left and Church in right, they can go with a three-centerfielder alignment on occasion.[/quote:3aya22fi] Mike Cameron doesn't think that sounds so swell. batmagadanleadoff Apr 08 2009 09:54 AM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":18pvw1zl]="metirish":18pvw1zl]How did it happen that Murphy got pegged as a poor or average fielder when he got called up. Who decides that? Murphy played 4 games in the Minor leagues and had a fielding % of 1.000 which itself means little but I remember when he first came up and hearing about how he'll have a tough time in LH. Seems like that then is taken as gospel in the media and fans too. Will he ever shake that tag?[/quote:18pvw1zl] Admittedly, it's a bit of an extrapolation, at best... but a reasonable one. He takes odd routes to semi-routine flyballs, seems to have a little trouble tracking flies, and very often running full clip when making routine catches (a flashing red warning sign of making late/poor judgements on balls' flight path). Given his history (At his 'first position,' 3B, DM was an E-machine... and he's put significantly less time in in the outfield) and apparent predisposition (hitting interest>>fielding interest), the visual evidence tends toward damning (if not being entirely conclusive). He's young and athletic, so that'll help make up for any misjudgements... but it won't turn him into Endy. As far as the Fielding Bible numbers... wait a year or three (53 chances does not a representative sample size make). If he puts up good defensive numbers, then I'll be willing to chalk up the aesthetic ugliness as just that. (And hey... I'm just looking for him to be decent/non-embarrassing with a glove on his hand, personally.)[/quote:18pvw1zl] And among other things, Murph was the first one to admit that he's a struggling outfielder, defensively, developmentally behind where the team would like him to be. Also, notwithstanding in-game fielding statistics, I suppose that the team can assess Murph's OF defensive skills from observing him during practice sessions. Edgy DC Apr 08 2009 09:58 AM He definitely got better as his season progressed, though. His cahnfidence waxed. Frayed Knot Apr 08 2009 10:21 AM I remember back in '99 when Rob Neyer (citing some fielding stats) pronounced Roger Cedeno to be a "dominant defensive right-fielder" ... and therefore the Hampton swap to be a bad deal. Anyone watching Cedeno that year certainly knew differently and, yeah, Neyer took a bunch of e-mails on that one -- including one from me IIRC. Gwreck Apr 08 2009 11:16 AM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":21peht0h]="Edgy DC":21peht0h]The Mets also have a good defensive replacement in Jeremy Reed, and with him in left and Church in right, they can go with a three-centerfielder alignment on occasion.[/quote:21peht0h] Mike Cameron doesn't think that sounds so swell.[/quote:21peht0h] Yabbut that was a once-in-a-million collision. I remember several games in '07 where we had a Gomez-Beltran-Chavez outfield that was treat to watch. Edgy DC Apr 08 2009 11:29 AM Yeah, I don't think LWFS is really arguing against playing centerfielders on the corner when you are blessed with a surfeit of them. metirish Apr 08 2009 11:38 AM I remember in those first games with those three playing the outfield there was if anything a need for Beltran to take charge as all three were capable of running down any ball. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 08 2009 11:55 AM ]I remember several games in '07 where we had a Gomez-Beltran-Chavez outfield that was treat to watch. Gwreck, that OF-- transitory though it was-- was the ex-girlfriend I'll never quite get over. Endy and Beltran are my 1-2 for all-time Mets defensive OFs... and Gomez was top-10 with a bullet when traded; it ruined me for all other Met defensive outfields. smg58 Apr 08 2009 12:21 PM You could make a very serious argument that Beltran, Chavez, and Gomez are the three best outfield gloves in baseball right now. OlerudOwned Apr 08 2009 12:25 PM There was actually a recent SI article about fielding metrics that partially focused on the concerted effort which Seattle made to rebuild quickly through improving their defense, and how Franklin Gutierrez and Endy Chavez were very much their main targets in that 3-way trade over the winter because of their fielding prowess. MFS62 Apr 08 2009 12:36 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"]]I remember several games in '07 where we had a Gomez-Beltran-Chavez outfield that was treat to watch. Gwreck, that OF-- transitory though it was-- was the ex-girlfriend I'll never quite get over. Endy and Beltran are my 1-2 for all-time Mets defensive OFs... and Gomez was top-10 with a bullet when traded; it ruined me for all other Met defensive outfields. Ricjie Ashburn, Gus Bell and Bobby Gene Smith (don't laugh) would have made an excellent defensive outfield in their primes. Unfortunately, the Mets had them past their primes in 1962. Later TransMonk Apr 08 2009 12:36 PM OO: There was actually a recent SI article about fielding metrics that partially focused on the concerted effort which Seattle made to rebuild quickly through improving their defense, and how Franklin Gutierrez and Endy Chavez were very much their main targets in that 3-way trade over the winter because of their fielding prowess. I saw one of the heads on the MLB network say something similar a few days ago when talking about the Mariners outlook this season. Could have been Verducci...which makes sense. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 08 2009 01:09 PM ="TransMonk"]OO: There was actually a recent SI article about fielding metrics that partially focused on the concerted effort which Seattle made to rebuild quickly through improving their defense, and how Franklin Gutierrez and Endy Chavez were very much their main targets in that 3-way trade over the winter because of their fielding prowess. I saw one of the heads on the MLB network say something similar a few days ago when talking about the Mariners outlook this season. Could have been Verducci...which makes sense. It's the short-term version of the Tampa rebuild (from 2006-2007 to 2008, the most substantive difference in pushing TB to its perch was defensive efficiency-- even more so than pitching, which was already largely in place). LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Apr 14 2009 01:34 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Apr 14 2009 01:53 PM At the risk of becoming the Outfield-Defense dude, I'll direct your attention this-a-way: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090413&content_id=4252146&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym&partnerId=rss_nym Is this: A) So Wrong Oh, So Very Wrong C) Ill-Timed, Just Mildly Wrong, and Sheffield's Bat Should At Least Partially Mitigate Starting a Defensive Liability in Front of Our Flyball-iest Pitcher After Manuel's Declaring a Re-Emphasis on Defense... and Benching a Guy Who Has Been a Doubles Machine in Order to Do So [EDIT: Young Sam over at Amazin' Avenue is just as dismayed. http://www.amazinavenue.com/2009/4/14/834442/brace-yourself] OlerudOwned Apr 14 2009 01:52 PM Stupid to do it with a flyball pitcher on the mound. Stupid to do it against a righty. Stupid. TransMonk Apr 14 2009 01:54 PM All of the above. We've already lost as many games to outfield defense blunders than I thought we would all season. I'd leave Church in at least until there is more info on how the new field is going to play. Obviously, Sheff is going to get some starts...but it shouldn't be after an off day with Ollie on the mound. John Cougar Lunchbucket Apr 14 2009 09:35 PM I'm giving Church a pass on that play. He made a bad one but we know he's capable of making it most nights and there's every reason to think the circumstances weirded the play up for him. And it was only the 6th inning. The failure to win last night was all about being unable to hit stiffs like Duaner Sanchez and other lesser-known, less-talented Mexican League reclamation projects. TransMonk Apr 27 2009 05:17 PM I was sooo wrong. Outfield defense has become a major concern for me. What a fuck-up-fest leftfield has become.

I believe that I recently heard that 'they' strongly suggest that home plate face east by northeast.

Thanks, I'll have to remember that when I send a card to Eliot Spitzer.

Edgy DC wrote: I actually had some questions I need Ed to answer. Like 'what rhymes with orange'?

Having been to Citi just the one time, I'm wondering what the logistics were Greg? If the weather held, you were supposed to be in the Pepsi porch thingy right? But aren't both scoreboards situated in such a way that you would have had to turn around and /or crane your neck to watch? I'm so freaking jealous that you met Mookie by the way. Did Ed Charles write you a bad poem?

Santana - 3 Murphy - 2 Rodriguez - 1.5 Putz - 1.25 Green - 1 Church - .5 Castillo - .25 Reyes - .25 Wright - .25