soupcan

="Elster88"]="soupcan"]And if you did go to the Golden Globes and booed Cusak for making a bad movie that you spent upwards of $20 for (popcorn and soda included) I would've applauded you. It's Cusack's fault the movie sucked? You really would applaud that? I would applaud the effort and the cojones it would take to actually go to the Golden Globes just to boo an actor whose movie stunk. ="Bret Sabermetric"]I would boo anyone who applauded you for booing Cusack. And I would applaud your booing of my applause of his booing.

="A Boy Named Seo"]Do you think a Cardinal fan is less disappointed when their team loses or one of their guys slumps? Or do they just not immaturely whine about it as if the player were intentionally trying to ruin Johnny Lunchbucket's afternoon? I think that in some small way they are afraid to boo their home team guys. Possibly they are insecure people residing in a fly-over state and they have a small market mentality. Maybe they think that if they boo, then players won't want to come there and then all they'll have is an ugly piece of post-modern stainless steel to identify with. I don't know. It's a theory. ="A Boy Named Seo"]Being a loudmouth doesn't make a fan more passionate or demanding. It just makes them a loudmouth. Okay. ="A Boy Named Seo"]..but I suppose Hector Luna getting the great table at Ruth's Criss is as good a reason for booing as any I've read in this thread. Boo, Hector Luna! Boo! I'm with you there!

="A Boy Named Seo"]]Fans of every team can be assholes though. I don't want hear about how loving Cardinal fans are. Personally I think THEY are morons for treating their athletes like kings just because they wear a St. Louis uniform. This is crazy. Cheering for the team you like does not equal "treating their athletes like kings". In most other cities, hell, maybe every other city except Philly, fans generally like the team and the players they go to watch and respond in kind. People in other cities (like LA, where booing is extremely rare) may be viewed as passive and laid-back, but they think that booing Mets fans are fair-weathered, loud-mouthed, jerk-offs. I'm an out-of-towner and I agree. I thought "Runaway Jury" blew, but I didn't go to the Golden Globes or anything to boo Cusack on the red carpet. Lot of assumptions being made in this thread. I said they treat them kings. I never equated cheering for them as treating them like kings. I meant that the pro athletes, Cardinals especially, in that town are treated like royalty on the field and off for no other reason then they play for the Cardinals. They are given carte blanche in restaurants and other establishments around town no matter what kind of person they are, reputation they have or least of which - what they do on the field. If Charles Manson had 45 ABs for the Cardinals he wouldn't have even been arrested in St. Louis much less convicted of any crime. I like that New York and Philly and Boston and other hard-nosed towns demand more from their athletes than just throwing their gloves on the field. I couldn't care less what an L.A. Dodger fan thinks about me. What do they know anyway? They think Major League games are only 7 innings long. No wonder players think that the St. Looey fans are the best. They don't expect anything so you can't fail them. And if you did go to the Golden Globes and booed Cusak for making a bad movie that you spent upwards of $20 for (popcorn and soda included) I would've applauded you.

Damn it. This means I have to get one for you doesn't it?

I got the impression that they were turned away from the locker smartass.

That's turning into some kind of checkered career for that dude.

soupcan wrote: I heard part of that interview but didn't know it was Kiernan. What he said about Carl Pavano really struck me though. Basically he threw the guy under the bus. "Everybody in Florida knew it was a big mistake for the Yankees to sign him. He does not have the heart or the guts to pitch in New York." "He set up chairs in a semicircle around his locker to keep reporters away, if he had located his pitches as well as he set up the chairs he wouldn't have had to worry about the media." Ouch. I don't recall the last time I heard a reporter just absolutely kill a guy like that. No comments on this huh? Geez I was stunned that the guy would say this on the radio.

]"It appears that the only significant edge Beltran has on him his speed." Well, plus BA & OBA & BBs & Ks. I said 'significant'. 13 pts on the BA, .008 on the OBA, 4 less BBs, 11 more Ks - that's a difference but not much of one.

I don't agree Bret (whew!). I don't agree that Piazza was the nominal leader - at least not in the cubhouse. There's no way for us to know what the dynamic was among the players but Piazza wasn't the only veteran on those Mets teams. Floyd, Alomar, Vaughn, Leiter, Franco, etc., etc. Just because he was the 'star' and the player that management chose to be the face of the franchise doesn't mean the players (including him) felt that way. Even if they did, even if Piazza was in fact a mopey malcontent (and I'm not even conceding that) and that was in fact the reason the team failed to meet expectations then all the other veterans on the team would have been just as much to blame for allowing that mopeyness to permeate the team. These players are not boys. They've been playing this game their whole lives. They knew what it took to win. They are all to blame for any percieved underachievment. Obviously you aren't/weren't a Piazza fan but to put the disappointment of the 21st century Mets thus far solely on his shoulders is a gross injustice. Personally I think Piazza was a great asset to this team. A great player, and a great personality.

!!!! Why the hell didn't you? If I didn't go to multiple Mets games during the season I would've been snapping up every souvenir in sight!

Am I gonna be ostricized if I start agreeing with Bret too much? Because I'm starting to agree with Bret too much.

Based on the numbers FK gave us I'd take Jones. It appears that the only significant edge Beltran has on him his speed. Why not take the player that's the same age with comparable numbers and better power?

metsmarathon wrote: mo vaughn was suposed to be that player, actually, but i think his ill-performance took away any chance at that. Man, I really wanted Mo Vaughn to do well here. I really, really did.

I heard part of that interview but didn't know it was Kiernan. What he said about Carl Pavano really struck me though. Basically he threw the guy under the bus. "Everybody in Florida knew it was a big mistake for the Yankees to sign him. He does not have the heart or the guts to pitch in New York." "He set up chairs in a semicircle around his locker to keep reporters away, if he had located his pitches as well as he set up the chairs he wouldn't have had to worry about the media." Ouch. I don't recall the last time I heard a reporter just absolutely kill a guy like that.

="Edgy DC"]="rpackrat"]Yes, because arguing that one should not act like a jerk toward someone else is certainly tantamount to sycophantic idol worship. In fact, I engage in sycophantic idol worship every morning when I wait for the people sitting in front of me on the bus to get out of their seats before I move into the aisle.I think he's clearly using irony to say that arguing that one should not act like a jerk toward someone is not tantamount to sycophantic idol worship, a position of yours he's inferring from the teat-suckling post. Well I never said that 'jerk' and 'sycophantic idol worshipping teat suckler' were equivalent, just that if I were going to be called one then I'd call the other person the other. What I didn't understand - and still don't - is how a person on a bus hoping someone will change seats is an idol. 'Splain that please. ]Sure it does. No it doesn't. Does too. Does not. ="Johnny Dickshot"]I wonder what his take might be on envious projecting. Sometimes Johnny, a cigar is just a cigar. Holy Crap! I'm Willie Mays! Say Hey!

Ralph looks like crap.

rpackrat wrote: Yes, because arguing that one should not act like a jerk toward someone else is certainly tantamount to sycophantic idol worship. In fact, I engage in sycophantic idol worship every morning when I wait for the people sitting in front of me on the bus to get out of their seats before I move into the aisle. No idea what you're trying to say here. ="Edgy DC"]That is embarassing. For a 9 year old maybe. But I do have a very pleasant singing voice and I usually know most of the words. ="Johnny Dickshot"]Sure it does. No it doesn't. ="Johnny Dickshot"]Because it undermines my pride. Sorry, that's your problem. Give Freud a call.

Johnny Dickshot wrote: It bothers me when alleged supporters of the team behave like entitled illiterate schmucks, because it reflects poorly on me. That's crap by the way. What I do does not reflect on you. I'm an individual and so are you. Why should you care what other people who don't know you think about you? You sound like my 9 year-old son who gets embarrassed when I sing loudly along with the muzak in the supermarket.

KC wrote: But can we all agree that booing him after his first at bat on opening day was a little whack? I don't care about his money, his first season, or anything like that - Shea fans can be and often are assholes. I'll give you that. Again the only reason I booed then was to irk a fan. Fans of every team can be assholes though. I don't want hear about how loving Cardinal fans are. Personally I think THEY are morons for treating their athletes like kings just because they wear a St. Louis uniform.

="rpackrat"]Almost every one of Soupcan's posts mentione Beltran's contract. It really seems like you're booing him because you're jealous of his money. Damn straight I'm jealous of his money. Aren't you? It's not the reason I'd boo him but it sure as hell plays into it. As I've explained the man gets paid a crapload of money to produce and as Bret has explained so well this figures into the entire makeup of the club. If the guy lives up to his contract - and to me in this case that means give me your average career numbers - then I'll cheer louder than you, but if he doesn't I see nothing wrong with booing. If you're going to call me a jerk then I'm going to you a sycophantic idol-worshipping teat suckler. I do understand everyone's point about not booing your hometown guy and instead encouraging and supporting him and that's cool. When Piazza first came here in '98 that was my attitude towards him. The difference then was that Piazza had no prior experience here so I was willing to give him some time to come around. Beltran has had a full season. I'm frustrated with him.

I think I was impeached.

I know that cow! That's Elsie Rural Road 36 in a scene from 'Udder Desire'

You guys are tireless, man. Elster88 - But seriously, how many of the booers are doing all that thinking? When someone is shouting "YOU FUCKING SUCK!!!" is he doing for the reasons you cite? This is completely different. I can only tell you what I think. When I say 'I boo him', I mean I 'BOOOO' him. I do not yell nasty things. I make an 'O' with my mouth and the sound 'BOOOOO' comes out. I can't speak for people shouting vulgarities. duan - Fine, but booing is probably the least likely thing to help that. When I boo, my interest is in expressing myself not helping an overpaid supremely talented player preform better. If he needs my help he's in trouble. Johnny Dickshot - The irony is... ironic, isn't it? It's not stopping me from typing my responses or formulating my thoughts, though. Its just unpleasent and not necessary. I'M STILL PREFORMING BABY! Hillbilly - No entry found for teet. Did you mean Tete? Really? Okay, I'll take 'tit'.

Edgy DC wrote: Enemy Wifey Watch: Marlin catcher Matt Treanor is married to the former Misty May, gold-medal winning beach volleyballist. Is Misty her middle name or her childhood pet?

duan wrote: christ we have this conversation too often. WHAT, do you precisely hope to gain by booing your own player. The only time i can see it's anyway justifiable is if it's clear that player is not putting in a reasonable amount of effort on the field of play or has very questionable professional conduct. I don't think I ever seen ANYONE question Beltran's professionalism and work ethic therefore I just can't accept that this is anything but idiocy. I don't necessarily want to 'gain' anything. Maybe I just want to show my dissatisfaction with the guy as people have been doing for generations. Its how a fan expresses one's disappointment. I'm disappointed. I don't question his work ethic but the guy took a lot on his shoulders by signing a contract like that. No one forced him to come here and accept $120 million bucks. The Mets (and I) are not paying him to work hard. He's being paid to produce. Period. duan wrote: It is MUCH more likely to hinder a players performance if he's regularly roundly derided by people who should be his supporters. Naturally he'll start playing with fear - anyone who thinks that kind of reaction isn't mentally stressful is a complete moron. I know you don't mean anything personally but could we stop with the name calling. It just makes it harder not to respond in kind and I'd rather this not devolve into that. He's going to be scared to play if I keep booing him? That's just silly and if true then he should not be playing at all. duan wrote: Similarly, it isn't exactly going to help the mets get trade value for him if other teams can see he's being run out of town so it's not actually going to help the team in that regard either is it? So now I shouldn't boo because when my team trades him because he's not preforming well (because of my booing) they won't get equal value for him? Boys - I'm enjoying this quite a bit but I have to do SOME work today. You'll excuse me if I can't respond as quickly for the rest of the day?