Ceetar

Centerfield wrote: I definitely see pluses and minuses on both sides. Edgy's way, the starters get taxed. Perhaps lose effectiveness in the long run. But you have a deeper bench, and save reliever innings. Maybe Montero doesn't have to pitch last night . Or isn't even here at all. Ceetar's way, the relievers get taxed. But our starters, our most valuable pitchers, stay fresh. I don't know. It's certainly not easy. I'd rather burn out relievers who are often flighty year to year anyway and maintain health or energy for starters or whatever. Play matchups, certainly. Make exceptions for Thor, best pitchers. But bullpens need to be deeper in general. They're not a ranking of the best to worst pitchers, and relievers are no longer just rejected starters. They might not actually be worse than the starter and actually they're better on average, as per opposing OPS and such. Seasons are made on the bullpen. Championships are won. The extra pinch hitter? not so much.

I wonder if anyone has an extra outfielder they want to move...hmm...

You've claimed it's a scandal that the Mets aren't pitching their starters deep into games, but say you don't want them pitching to the best guy in the 7th. But you also don't want the Mets to stock their bullpen full at the expense of a bench guy, so you could see how it's unclear.

Edgy MD wrote: Ceetar wrote: You're arguing the Mets should let their starters pitch to Trout in the 7th instead of say Reed. Not particularly, no. But it's pretty telling that you decided to rewrite my argument. or it's telling about the coherency of your argument. In any event, put the DH in and we'll need even less pinch hitters and can settle on 8+ relievers.

Michael Conforto – CF Asdrúbal Cabrera – SS Yoenis Céspedes – LF Jay Bruce – RF Neil Walker – 2B Lucas Duda – 1B José Reyes – 3B Travis d’Arnaud - C Zack Wheeler - RHP

You're arguing the Mets should let their starters pitch to Trout in the 7th instead of say Reed. That there are multiple high leverage situations throughout the game is not changing based on pitcher use. And they're not necessarily worse pitchers down the line either, the idea here is that you need to have multiple good, maybe equally good, pitchers in the pen because of this. You can play matchups and platoon splits to maximize effectiveness too. This is all to say that sure, have more relievers, because that part of the game is way more crucial than a mildly more effective third pinch hitter. But leverage? sure, maybe Edgin and Montero are getting too many innings, but in general the leverage usage at the time the pitchers enter the game seems okay to me: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit≶=all&qual=0&type=3&season=2017&month=0&season1=2017&ind=0&team=25&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=9,d Maybe a little less for Robles since he's struggled and more for Salas, though it's all fairly small sample there too.

in 2016 for example, Mets starter 3rd time through the order allowed a .736 OPS. Mets relievers first time through the order allowed a .671 OPS 2016 Mets SP third times through: 4.1 xFIP. Relievers first time through 3.83 xFIP. These numbers are the norm. There are individuals that buck the trend of course, Syndergaard is one of the top..3? pitchers in baseball after all and Montero is on the other end of the spectrum. But that's why he's generally mop up and it's Salas and Reed and Familia that will/should be taking the high leverage innings. This is why your best reliever should come into the highest leverage spot, not the highest numbered inning. In a lot of cases, the very best pitcher to face Mike Trout in the 7th is the 'closer'.

Edgy MD wrote: The Mets average 5.48 innings per start among their starting pitchers, despite a 3.52 ERA. That should be a scandal. More weaker pitchers equals fewer innings by better pitchers. Quantitatively untrue. Third time through the order penalty is real. Wins are a dumb stat, baseball is moving away from 'the starter is the guy that throws most/all of the game' mentality. This is a GOOD sign, and they've been pushing their best relievers, perhaps too hard. Familia back will help that though, and if they could find one other guy to step up, then they're really spreading those innings around better and keeping everyone fresh and in the best position to win.

Edgy MD wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Well, I don't consider Brandon Nimmo to be a "Quad-A" guy. And I think the desire for marginal rest has become a self-defeating unstoppable creep. I wouldn't say self-defeating. Nimmo's hurt anyway, but I wouldn't think the extra AB or two a week he'd get by being the 25th guy instead of another reliever is going to prove he's not a Quad-A singles hitter. I'm not sure how Brandon Nimmo has to "prove" he's not a "Quad-A singles hitter" but Sean Gilmartin and Rafael Montero and Paul Sewald are somehow necessary enough that they don't have to prove anything. Nor do I believe that a fifth outfielder or sixth infielder is limited to one to two at-bats per week, especially if they demonstrate their increasing capability. If you want to make a case for Nimmo being say the 20th guy on the roster rather than the 25th, that's fine. I'm talking about using the worst hitter left on the bench. They're not gonna promote Nimmo with nowhere to play anyway for the sake of pinch hitters, so it'd be garbage Eric Campbell types. Sewald and Gilmartin are riding the shuttle enough that they haven't proven anything either, besides that it's easier to find a guy to throw an inning or two here and there and get outs than it is to find another worthwhile pinch hitter. The Mets had 4 PH PA from pitchers last year. How many times did they actually need the last guy on the bench versus how many times they used the last reliever over a series to help mitigate rest and such?

Edgy MD wrote: Well, I don't consider Brandon Nimmo to be a "Quad-A" guy. And I think the desire for marginal rest has become a self-defeating unstoppable creep. I wouldn't say self-defeating. Nimmo's hurt anyway, but I wouldn't think the extra AB or two a week he'd get by being the 25th guy instead of another reliever is going to prove he's not a Quad-A singles hitter.

Meh, you might be better off sending Thor up there to take a hack instead of like, Ty Kelly. The marginal rest and depth of the bullpen is probably worth more than the step up to Quad-A guy/Rene Rivera from Thor

Ashie62 wrote: Looks like we are going to see some interesting Jackie Robinson day cleats today. Grandy has his ready. Will again wear custom Jackie Robinson cleats for tonight's game...Granderson, who wears his socks high every game in honor of Jackie Robinson, will auction off those cleats to benefit the Jackie Robinson Foundation...The auction will launch online at thegrandkidsfoundation.org starting today and ending April 27, at 11:30 a.m. (ET).

Fman99 wrote: The first WPIX game of 2017 and therefore the first game that FIOS will fuck me out of this season. Uh, deGrom? vs. uh some guy... I'm curious if the NBC sports app will work with WPIX games. We shall see. Mets Lineup: 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I've been meaning to update this but I need a machine to do it for me. you should really just make us all paste this into a google sheet and then a simple formula would give you everything you needed.

No one picked d'Arnaud for triple.

41Forever wrote: Trying to guess who among this year's likely selectees would have the highest number on the patch? Miguel Cabrera? Albert Pujols? Doesn't Derek Jeter still get elected and not show up each yeah by law?

speaking of baseball queries..any of you recently set up a DB? I found a nice SQL Server dump of statlines, but it doesn't let me delve into play by play type stuff like baserunners. I know there's some mysql stuff out there but it all operates on the assumption that you're building it from scratch and that takes forever (at least in terms of my free time). Hoping there's something easier but there doesn't seem to be.

G-Fafif wrote: G-Fafif wrote: Orosco, Franco and McGraw never left the organization. Leach did but didn't play in the majors while he was away. nor did Pedro Feliciano True, but I was looking only for those whose wait was longer than Zack's. My bad, I just assumed that was Feliciano from his departure to the medical offices of the Yankees which I knew was longer than Wheeler, but alas he did not get a win when he came back. His stretch was from much earlier when presumably he was also injured. (his time between losses however, is greater)

G-Fafif wrote: Orosco, Franco and McGraw never left the organization. Leach did but didn't play in the majors while he was away. nor did Pedro Feliciano

In season 28, episode 19 of the Simpsons 'Caper Chase' the first scene is beer league softball between Springfield and Indian Point and they joke 'They think they're so cool because their fallout radius includes Manhattan' 'Yeah, how many Mets games have you postponed?'

I mean, right now the safest bet is Granderson over Lagares or Conforto when it comes to hitting. Maybe Conforto will actually start hitting regularly and it'll be a moot point, or Lagares will hit enough to carry him (I kinda like shifting towards Cespedes, Lagares, Conforto by July) but Granderson is still a good player and as these games are important, he should still be playing a bunch. Also he's still better than Bruce, and so is Conforto likely. Bruce's defense is SO bad.

Edgy MD wrote: That wasn't an all-negative outing. Just him coming back one rotation turn later is a positive, in my book. First game in two years, I'm prepared to give him a bit of a mulligan anyway. Now he's just a pitcher in the rotation. go pitch.

you're quite the catch!

Whatever happened to Mettle the Mule anyway

Nice to mitt you.