Fman99

Until the MLB players union cleans its own house, I will continue to believe that every player has used steriods. Skinny? Injured a lot? Denied it in the press? Don't care. It's their own fault -- they don't weed out the users, I will just assume they all use. It's easier than trying to discern which scumbag washout's rumors to believe or not believe. That is all I have to say about that.

Oh thank goodness for the fucking New York Yankees! Hosannah! Then... Barf! Jeez. People wonder why newspapers are going tits up... maybe it's due to idiots in MLB press boxes.

I got douche chills reading that article. This guy can go screw.

I love DJ Obesity. Go Yankees! :sigh:

willpie wrote: I made a few frustrating mistakes (which I always do), but my team's not horrible: 1. (9) Carlos Beltr�n OF 2. (16) Carlos Lee OF 3. (33) Chipper Jones 3B 4. (40) Joey Votto 1B 5. (57) Ryan Doumit C 6. (64) Ricky Nolasco SP 7. (81) Jorge Cant� 1B,3B 8. (88) Rickie Weeks 2B 9. (105) Yunel Escobar SS 10. (112) Jair Jurrjens SP 11. (129) Jonathan S�nchez SP 12. (136) Mike Pelfrey SP 13. (153) J.J. Putz RP 14. (160) Brian Giles OF 15. (177) Jon Rauch RP 16. (184) Seth Smith OF 17. (201) Eric Hinske 1B,OF 18. (208) Jeff Baker 1B,2B,3B 19. (225) Jeff Keppinger 3B,SS 20. (232) Merkin Valdez RP 21. (249) Scott Olsen SP 22. (256) Barry Zito SP 23. (273) Pedro Feliz 3B 24. (280) Shawn Hill SP 25. (297) Mark Loretta 2B,3B I definitely wanted a couple more power/speed guys to go with Beltran, but this isn't a terrible start. Also: Shawn Hill signed with the Padres and not the Blue Jays. That should work out for me until his arm falls off again. No closers... though some will pop up during the season, Putz and Rauch both looking like 8th inning guys on their respective teams. In NL only I feel like you have to have at least one guy who is going to not get yanked out of that slot. Hopefully Valverde is that guy for me.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Any more room at the NL-only inn? My deep ML-universe league ended up satisfying from a value standpoint (A-Rod in early fourth round, to go with a bunch of young, speed-and-power types in Kinsler and the Uptons), but not from a Met-brain perspective (not a single token Met fell to me). A day late and no dollars short. Sorry bud, we drafted just last night. When you play NL only your last few hitters and pitchers would be best described as, um, "turds." Here's my lineup, I am quite happy with much of my hitters and all of my staff. 1. (6) Ryan Howard 1B 2. (19) Matt Kemp OF 3. (30) Garrett Atkins 1B,3B 4. (43) Ryan Ludwick OF 5. (54) Adam Wainwright SP 6. (67) Jos� Valverde RP 7. (78) Ryan Dempster SP 8. (91) Kazuo Matsui 2B 9. (102) Fred Lewis OF 10. (115) Chris Carpenter SP 11. (126) Ram�n Hern�ndez C 12. (139) Chris Volstad SP 13. (150) Cristian Guzm�n SS 14. (163) Leo N��ez RP 15. (174) Josh Anderson OF 16. (187) Rafael Soriano RP 17. (198) Bronson Arroyo SP 18. (211) Travis Ishikawa CI 19. (222) Tommy Hanson SP 20. (235) Anderson Hern�ndez MI 21. (246) Micah Owings SP 22. (259) Andrew McCutchen OF 23. (270) Joe Mather OF 24. (283) John Baker C 25. (294) Steve Pearce OF I just realized that I don't own a single Met, only castoffs like Matsui and A-Hern. In an NL-only, that's exceedingly difficult to do. Um, congrats? That said, Arroyo, Owings, Ishikawa and Baker were nice value picks. Out of curiosity, where did Jordan Schaefer go? He went late (first pick of round 23). I considered him as a handcuff to Anderson but ended up trying to find guys I thought were more likely to break into starting lineups, like McCutchen. Invaluable to me were ESPN's team by team depth charts, just to comb out all the names of starting position players and likely rotation candidates.

themetfairy wrote: I saw it on cable recently. I thought it was good, but not great. And I agree with Edgy that it did a good job of portraying the awkwardness of teenage sex. Although, like most things, it's better in 30 seconds as done by bunnies. Oh I just lost 15 minutes of my life with those damn bunnies. They rule.

Courtesy of the AP. That second paragraph kills me... I'd have no regrets either if someone dropped $8 mil for me to sit around in gauze. ] Schilling announces retirement after 23 years BOSTON -- Curt Schilling retired from baseball Monday after a career in which he won World Series titles with the Boston Red Sox and Arizona Diamondbacks and was one of the game's most dominant pitchers and grittiest competitors. The 42-year-old right-hander said on his blog he's leaving after 23 years with "zero regrets." Schilling missed all of last season with a shoulder injury after signing a one-year, $8 million contract. "The things I was allowed to experience, the people I was able to call friends, teammates, mentors, coaches and opponents, the travel, all of it, are far more than anything I ever thought possible in my lifetime," he wrote. Schilling had surgery last June and had said he might come back in the middle of this season. He was not under contract for this season. He made no reference to his injury on his blog. Schilling won a World Series with Arizona in 2001 and with Boston in 2004 and 2007. In his first year in Boston in 2004, he helped the team win its first World Series in 86 years, pitching Game 2 of a sweep of the St. Louis Cardinals after a surgical procedure to suture a loose tendon in his right ankle and with blood seeping through his sock. The sock is now in the Baseball Hall of Fame. He was drafted by the Red Sox in the second round of the 1986 draft, but was traded to the Baltimore Orioles before playing for the big league club. He pitched for the Orioles, Houston, Philadelphia and Arizona before being wooed to the Red Sox by general manager Theo Epstein. Schilling, one of the sport's hard throwers, finishes his career with 3,116 strikeouts, 14th most in baseball history, a 216-146 record and a 3.46 ERA. He was even better in the postseason, with an 11-2 record, the best of any pitcher with at least 10 decisions, and 2.23 ERA in 19 career starts.

Scott Miller of CBS Sportsline blames ol' Davey for falling asleep at the till. Interesting take. ] Without commitment to excellence, Team USA might never win WBC title March 23, 2009 By Scott Miller LOS ANGELES -- Where was the sense of urgency? Team USA's Davey Johnson managed Sunday's World Baseball Classic semifinal in the same casual manner in which too many Yankees view this tournament. Yankees, as in, the vast majority of USA citizens -- not necessarily (but including) Team Steinbrenner. And therein lies the problem. Team Japan, which clocked Team USA 9-4 to move into the title game Monday against Korea, has been training zealously for the WBC since mid-February. So has Korea, which Monday night has the opportunity to score what would rank as perhaps the greatest baseball victory in the country's history. The players from Team USA, meantime, scatter to their various spring training sites the same way they haphazardly convened, the inconvenient Grapefruit and Cactus League interruptions done with for another year, with most fans and many other big leaguers still not quite sure what to make of the WBC. While nobody doubts the commitment of Team USA members such as David Wright, Derek Jeter, Jimmy Rollins and Jake Peavy, the vast majority of folks this side of the Atlantic and Pacific oceans still view this event as something to be avoided, like spinach. "I think a lot of guys wanted to play but, for whatever reason, they didn't," Team USA's Derek Jeter said. "Recruiting? I think everybody knows what it's about. It's a tough time of year." The gathering here in Los Angeles these past two days doesn't appear to have done much to have changed any minds. Following the lopsided Korea-Venezuela game Saturday, Johnson appeared to nap through the fourth inning, which quickly turned into a five-run, game-turning boon for Japan and a disaster for Team USA. Following two hard singles and a tough error by second baseman Brian Roberts that easily could have been ruled a hit, Kenji Johjima stepped to the plate with three left-handed hitters -- Japan's eight-nine-one hitters -- due up next. Yet, not only did Johnson fail to make a move toward his well-staffed bullpen, he didn't even have anybody warming up. No left-handers, no right-handers, nobody. And Team USA is carrying 14 pitchers. It was a windy, cold, mid-50s evening. Team USA starter Roy Oswalt is nowhere near midseason shape. The first four batters in the inning hit ropes. Yet the game proceeded with Oswalt for four more hitters. And into that span, Japan worked an RBI triple, an RBI single and a run-scoring double. "I tried to get [John] Grabow up," Johnson said. "I didn't think it was going to take him so long. It was my fault. It took him longer in the cool weather to get loose." How much longer? "I hoped to have him ready by the [No. 8] hitter. But it was awfully cold out there, and he has a little bit of a tight groin muscle. And I should have just got him up a little earlier than I did." Afterward, there was the predictable batch of questions about whether the Asian style of ball -- sound execution, attention to detail, moving runners along on the bases -- could teach the Americans a thing or two. The short answer is, probably yes. But that's also far too simple to be anywhere near a complete answer. It is difficult to take this tournament seriously when Johnson, say, allows Peavy to remain in the game while getting bludgeoned (six runs allowed in two innings as Puerto Rico mercy-ruled Team USA earlier in the tournament) because he needs to "get his work in." Or when he mismanages his bullpen in a single-elimination situation. Or when he says, as he did Sunday, that he thought Oswalt "was throwing good enough to stay in the ballgame." Or when he sends young Evan Longoria to the plate as a pinch-hitter as the potential tying run with one out and a man on third in the eighth -- without warning. Shane Victorino was set to bat when, suddenly, Johnson told Longoria -- a kid who just joined the team and had not yet batted in the WBC -- to go get 'em. "He probably had a gut feeling," Victorino said. It is difficult to take this tournament seriously when Team USA players shuttle in and out like it's a country club, guys canceling at the last minute before the start of the WBC or abandoning ship midstream because of injuries. And then, in the case of Boston second baseman Dustin Pedroia, they're healthy enough to play in a Grapefruit League game a few days later. It's difficult to take it seriously when Team USA is playing guys out of position -- Mark DeRosa was at first Sunday against Japan, Adam Dunn in right field -- or playing guys based more on reputation than skill -- Jeter was at shortstop and Jimmy Rollins at designated hitter when the other way around clearly would be more conducive to winning. Team USA committed three errors Sunday, and four of Japan's nine runs were unearned. It is difficult to take it seriously when so many elite players, especially pitchers -- CC Sabathia, Josh Beckett, A.J. Burnett and Jonathan Papelbon, to name a few -- continue to pass. Especially noticeable is the lack of pitching provided by the Yankees and Boston (outside of Daisuke Matsuzaka, who started for Japan on Sunday), who remain politically correct publicly regarding the WBC but privately, obviously, prefer to put winning above anything else and not take any chances with their meal tickets. And can you blame them? "I know we have some general managers who are somewhat reticent. I'm going to be as kind here as I can," Commissioner Bud Selig was saying the other night. "Look, the clubs hear this all the time, but I'm going to say this to you as directly as I can: This is a time in life where I know how important your individual club is -- this is a time to put the best interests of the game ahead of your own provincial self-interest." So what's left is Japan-Korea for a fifth time in this WBC, a title game that is sure to be crisp and riveting -- and put much of this country into a deep slumber. What's left is for Jeter to return to the Yankees, and Wright to the Mets, and Ryan Braun to Milwaukee, and for them probably to answer several more stray questions along the lines of whether America's game really is America's game anymore. Which ignores the premise, of course, of what might happen if Team USA truly fielded a team on which all of its elite players played. Jeter, to his credit, wouldn't bite when asked about that. "I'd love to get another crack at [Japan] with the same team tomorrow," he said. "That's just making excuses. You can't sit here and say if we had this person or if we had that person. They played good." True. But as for what Selig says is the greater good, the growth of the WBC, until Team USA gets serious about installing a manager who isn't past his prime and fielding a truly elite team, this tournament is never going to be anything more than an interesting novelty in this country.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Any more room at the NL-only inn? My deep ML-universe league ended up satisfying from a value standpoint (A-Rod in early fourth round, to go with a bunch of young, speed-and-power types in Kinsler and the Uptons), but not from a Met-brain perspective (not a single token Met fell to me). A day late and no dollars short. Sorry bud, we drafted just last night. When you play NL only your last few hitters and pitchers would be best described as, um, "turds." Here's my lineup, I am quite happy with much of my hitters and all of my staff. 1. (6) Ryan Howard 1B 2. (19) Matt Kemp OF 3. (30) Garrett Atkins 1B,3B 4. (43) Ryan Ludwick OF 5. (54) Adam Wainwright SP 6. (67) Jos� Valverde RP 7. (78) Ryan Dempster SP 8. (91) Kazuo Matsui 2B 9. (102) Fred Lewis OF 10. (115) Chris Carpenter SP 11. (126) Ram�n Hern�ndez C 12. (139) Chris Volstad SP 13. (150) Cristian Guzm�n SS 14. (163) Leo N��ez RP 15. (174) Josh Anderson OF 16. (187) Rafael Soriano RP 17. (198) Bronson Arroyo SP 18. (211) Travis Ishikawa CI 19. (222) Tommy Hanson SP 20. (235) Anderson Hern�ndez MI 21. (246) Micah Owings SP 22. (259) Andrew McCutchen OF 23. (270) Joe Mather OF 24. (283) John Baker C 25. (294) Steve Pearce OF I just realized that I don't own a single Met, only castoffs like Matsui and A-Hern.

I'm rooting for Bud to be thrown down into a well and get trapped like Baby Jessica. Only instead of rescuing him we could just throw Jeter jerseys down to him.

="Centerfield":2pc49ojt]I seem to be the only one I know that's a little pissed that we didn't have a deeper pitching staff. I mean, when Oswalt gets knocked around, we don't have anyone better than Josh Grabow? Where's CC Sabathia and AJ Burnett? Or Brad Lidge? Or Cole Hamels coming in to face a lefty.[/quote:2pc49ojt] Tim Lincecum, don't forget. Brandon Webb, Dan Haren, etc. It's part of my beef with this thing... if you're going to send the best hitters we have at least have the pitchers to match. The other teams did, we did not. Not that Roy Oswalt is a slouch, mind you. But some of these arms in the pen for team USA make me wonder. Plus, throw Jeter in the fucking can. He's old and he can't hit or field much anymore. Let him be the first base coach. Centerfield Mar 23 2009 09:37 AM That's right. Lincecum. He's the one that got me started on my tirade last night. When we had to go to Grabow in the middle innings and then they played the Lincecum video game commercial. Edgy DC Mar 23 2009 09:43 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 23 2009 10:40 AM ="Fman99":1vmjnthj]="Centerfield":1vmjnthj]I seem to be the only one I know that's a little pissed that we didn't have a deeper pitching staff. I mean, when Oswalt gets knocked around, we don't have anyone better than Josh Grabow? Where's CC Sabathia and AJ Burnett? Or Brad Lidge? Or Cole Hamels coming in to face a lefty.[/quote:1vmjnthj] Tim Lincecum, don't forget. Brandon Webb, Dan Haren, etc. It's part of my beef with this thing... if you're going to send the best hitters we have at least have the pitchers to match. The other teams did, we did not.[/quote:1vmjnthj] I'm disagreeing there. Japan and Korea and Cuba may have, for all I know, but it's pretty easy to take the no-shows for Venezuela, Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic and assemble a better staff than the one they showed up with. G-Fafif Mar 23 2009 10:02 AM David Wright has played Major League Baseball in New York for 4-1/2 seasons. He's been to the playoffs. He's made three All-Star teams, twice as a starter. He's been on the cover of whichever video game it was, been on magazine covers, done commercials...why on earth would any professional baseball reporter think he needs Derek F. Jeter to mentor him at this stage of his career regarding baseball or how to handle attention? Even looking at it objectively, what kind of BS is that? Benjamin Grimm Mar 23 2009 11:17 AM I agree. It's just nuts. Edgy DC Mar 23 2009 11:21 AM He's the pitchman for Jae Rock Lee, and he don't need anybody to show him how that's done. Benjamin Grimm Mar 23 2009 12:03 PM ="Edgy DC":1kgsf6wz]He's the pitchman for Jae Rock Lee, and he don't need anybody to show him how that's done.[/quote:1kgsf6wz] A featured classic: http://archives.cranepoolforum.net/4000/f1_t4071.shtml Edgy DC Mar 23 2009 12:22 PM Wright passed the two-year mark without jumping on Oprah's couch. At least, you know, not on camera. Edgy DC Mar 26 2009 10:18 PM Allen Barra trying to cope with reality. Trying and failing. http://www.observer.com/2009/time-honesty-about-great-derek-jeter#comment_form dinosaur jesus Mar 26 2009 11:25 PM "Let�s go ahead and say it: no major league team has ever won a pennant with a 35-year-old shortstop." Feel free to say it, but that won't make it true. Major league teams that have won a pennant with a 35-year-old shortstop: Giants, 1905 (Bill Dahlen, 35) White Sox, 1906 (George Davis, 35) Pirates, 1909 (Honus Wagner, 35) Cardinals, 1928 (Rabbit Maranville, 36) Tigers, 1945 (Skeeter Webb, 35) Yankees, 1952 (Phil Rizzuto, 35) Yankees, 1953 (Phil Rizzuto, 36) Dodgers, 1955 (Pee Wee Reese, 36) Dodgers, 1956 (Pee Wee Reese, 37) Braves, 1999 (Walt Weiss, 35, splitting time with Ozzie Guillen, 35) Edgy DC Mar 26 2009 11:50 PM I came up with Rizzuto, Rizzuto, Wagner, and Weiss. Good job. Please send. The problem isn't so much being 35, as that 35 will force you to confront what should have been addressed years ago. You've been oversold. Thing is that he's been an excellent pleyer. G-Fafif Mar 27 2009 05:29 AM Boy, how I'd love to not see Walt Weiss on that list. ]Unfortunately, sportswriters outside New York Jeter may need a bit more. Most baseball analysts I know agree that Jeter should or could have won MVP awards in 1998, 1999, and 2006. That he didn�t probably reflects the rest of the country�s resentment that New York players receive so much national attention (or at any rate, are said to). Yes, it was all anti-New York bias, not the possibility that Juan Gonzalez, Ivan Rodriguez and Joe Mauer helped push less loaded teams over the top and got credit for their accomplishments therein. How come "baseball analysts" are absolutely brilliant and "sportswriters" are a bunch of dumb clucks? Jeter doesn't get enough appreciation from sportswriters? On what planet? Edgy DC Mar 27 2009 06:48 AM Yeah, it's mainstream bias. I've got friends from Pittsburgh and Milwaukee who believed all that intangible shit. And then I schoolded 'em. If the US won the World Baseball Classic, Jeter would have been awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

I need some pictures if I'm going to give you anything juvenile. Throw me a bone (figuratively speaking).

="Benjamin Grimm":2hdrb74w]See, hanging out with Jeter has been good for David.[/quote:2hdrb74w] This offends me on every level. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 23 2009 12:33 PM David introduces the good sargeant to Jae Rock Lee in 3... 2...

Wow. Looks like a drag queen's bad attempt at Renee Witherspoon. I need some sorbet to cleanse the palate please.

="bmfc1":1mmyd2ah]"I need to work on some of them," Selig admitted [speaking of major league owners concerning the WBC]. "There is a time in life to put the best interests of the game ahead of your provincial, self-interests." OK Bud, so I should be happy if/when my guys that are playing in the WBC, and they are "my guys" since I spend thousands of dollars to watch them (live, on TV, and via the internet) and wear their stuff, are being worn out, and possibly playing injured, because you perceive (and it's only a perception), that it is for the greater good of baseball. Then I guess I should be happy when WS games go to midnight on a work night and school night, because you've decided that this is in the best interests of the game--I shouldn't be "provincial" that my son, who watches baseball all season long, can't watch the WS because that's looking out for my own interests and not those of baseball. I should be happy that you ignored steroids, and have thereby made a mockery of the record book, because you decided that doing nothing was better for the game than taking action and possibly hurting revenue. I should be happy that owners have absurd boundary lines for blackout restrictions, such that fans in Las Vegas are blacked out on Extra Innings and mlb.tv from seeing five teams even though none reside within reasonable driving distance of their home, because this, somehow, is in the best interests of the game. You are not the game Bud. You don't determine what is right and what is wrong. How I hate you. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/tom_verducci/03/22/Korea.Venezuela/index.html[/quote:1mmyd2ah] Amen brother. G-Fafif Mar 22 2009 03:04 PM Hosannas. holychicken Mar 22 2009 03:33 PM I agree with the bulk of your post. However, I just don't understand what it has to do with the WBC. Each one of those problems should be viewed individually. . . just because he has made some boneheaded moves does not make everything he says boneheaded. I think he is right when it comes to the WBC. I don't get why there is so much disdain around here for it. It's fun. It's entertainment. Isn't that what baseball? Or at least should be? metsmarathon Mar 22 2009 03:49 PM i'm surprised nobody (to my knowledge) has looked at how the participants in the last WBC fared in-season vs their prior and subsequent years. i mean, there's all this hullabaloo about how the WBC simply sheds the players in it, and how its gotta be just awful for them, and how much it surely will ruin their season and the hopes of their paying fans. yet there's been no objective attempt that i've seen to prove or disprove it. m.e.t.b.o.t. Mar 22 2009 03:55 PM this looks like a job for m.e.t.b.o.t.! John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 22 2009 04:11 PM Far be it from me to defend Selig, or take shots at a cranky old man post but I don't think the WBC as a jumping-off point for Bud's failures makes a lotta sense. It's not perfect but I agree it's a good thing for baseball. And I like it better than Spring Training by a long shot. Injuries, schminjuries, I say. And, you know, night baseball was an institution long before Bud took the reigns and the TV stuff, while dumb, is too important to the "small marketers." Roids? Sure he looked the other way, but he shares the blame with lots of people including you and me. IMO, his real crime was punting to Congress on that issue. Edgy DC Mar 22 2009 04:17 PM I believe there has, and, to my recollection, the stats showed that ERAs for players tended to go up in the year following the 2006 WBC. Now, that may well be a case of B following A, but not being caused by A. Pitchers always have trouble maintaining a consistent performance from year to year, and, since it's likely that a pitcher will have had a good season the year preceding his selection to a presitigious tournment, that may be nothing. Or it may be something. Let's just look at the US pitchers, as they should have the most MLB-ers. Pitcher2005 Age2005 ERA+2006 ERA+Cordero23224134Fuentes29164142Jones37190116Lidge2818484Nathan30165283Shields29154159Street21253134Clemens42226193Majewski2513995Peavy2413499Timlin39202109Wheeler27191176Willis23151112Mean29.0183141*Al Leiter, who retired after the 2006 WBC is not included. These data may mean nothing, or they mean something innocuous like the US hired too many older pitchers in 2006, but they don't look good, and they do indicate more study and observation would be worthwhile. Edgy DC Mar 23 2009 07:18 AM And yeah, I'm still confused why asking the teams to sacrifice for an international tournament is conflated with asking the fans to sacrifice for the enrichment of the teams. bmfc1 Mar 23 2009 08:31 AM Because it is typical of Selig to cite the vague "best interests of the game" as the reason for doing anything. It wasn't the first time he said that and it won't be the last--even if it screws you and me. WS games that end around midnight? It's in the game's best interests because FOX pays the owners a lot of money. Have numerous days off in the middle of the playoffs? The game benefits because more playoff days means more money, even if it impacts the outcome. A WS that will be played in November (game 7 is scheduled for November 5)? That's in the best interests of the game because of the WBC, even though the players (and fans, but that's irrelevant to him) will be cold and this affects the quality of the play. Edgy DC Mar 23 2009 08:34 AM I just think you chose the wrong quote as a jumping off point. bmfc1 Mar 23 2009 08:51 AM Thank you for your critique. Fman99 Mar 23 2009 09:56 AM I'm rooting for Bud to be thrown down into a well and get trapped like Baby Jessica. Only instead of rescuing him we could just throw Jeter jerseys down to him. G-Fafif Mar 23 2009 10:07 AM ]"There is a time in life to put the best interests of the game ahead of your provincial, self-interests." I get the good of the country, good of the team, good of the game, et al, but I'm a baseball fan because I have provincial self-interest in baseball. Anything left over after that stems from the provincial self-interest. Bud's overseen some positive developments in his job. But he gets on my nerves. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 23 2009 10:26 AM ="metsmarathon":2fjlrxr8]i'm surprised nobody (to my knowledge) has looked at how the participants in the last WBC fared in-season vs their prior and subsequent years. i mean, there's all this hullabaloo about how the WBC simply sheds the players in it, and how its gotta be just awful for them, and how much it surely will ruin their season and the hopes of their paying fans. yet there's been no objective attempt that i've seen to prove or disprove it.[/quote:2fjlrxr8] A little more follow-up on the question, courtesy of the Times' Dan Rosencheck/PECOTA. (In brief: over an admittedly tiny sample size-- we'll have better numbers after this year, naturally-- pitchers seem to deteriorate a bit, while hitters seem to show a marginal increase in giddy-up.) http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/22/sports/baseball/22score.html?_r=2&sq="Nate%20Silver"%20AND%20"World%20Baseball%20Classic"&st=cse&adxnnl=1&scp=1&adxnnlx=1237825385-LcX8RqYR39YBg+bH8EnSYw Fman99 Mar 23 2009 10:32 AM Scott Miller of CBS Sportsline blames ol' Davey for falling asleep at the till. Interesting take. ] Without commitment to excellence, Team USA might never win WBC title March 23, 2009 By Scott Miller LOS ANGELES -- Where was the sense of urgency? Team USA's Davey Johnson managed Sunday's World Baseball Classic semifinal in the same casual manner in which too many Yankees view this tournament. Yankees, as in, the vast majority of USA citizens -- not necessarily (but including) Team Steinbrenner. And therein lies the problem. Team Japan, which clocked Team USA 9-4 to move into the title game Monday against Korea, has been training zealously for the WBC since mid-February. So has Korea, which Monday night has the opportunity to score what would rank as perhaps the greatest baseball victory in the country's history. The players from Team USA, meantime, scatter to their various spring training sites the same way they haphazardly convened, the inconvenient Grapefruit and Cactus League interruptions done with for another year, with most fans and many other big leaguers still not quite sure what to make of the WBC. While nobody doubts the commitment of Team USA members such as David Wright, Derek Jeter, Jimmy Rollins and Jake Peavy, the vast majority of folks this side of the Atlantic and Pacific oceans still view this event as something to be avoided, like spinach. "I think a lot of guys wanted to play but, for whatever reason, they didn't," Team USA's Derek Jeter said. "Recruiting? I think everybody knows what it's about. It's a tough time of year." The gathering here in Los Angeles these past two days doesn't appear to have done much to have changed any minds. Following the lopsided Korea-Venezuela game Saturday, Johnson appeared to nap through the fourth inning, which quickly turned into a five-run, game-turning boon for Japan and a disaster for Team USA. Following two hard singles and a tough error by second baseman Brian Roberts that easily could have been ruled a hit, Kenji Johjima stepped to the plate with three left-handed hitters -- Japan's eight-nine-one hitters -- due up next. Yet, not only did Johnson fail to make a move toward his well-staffed bullpen, he didn't even have anybody warming up. No left-handers, no right-handers, nobody. And Team USA is carrying 14 pitchers. It was a windy, cold, mid-50s evening. Team USA starter Roy Oswalt is nowhere near midseason shape. The first four batters in the inning hit ropes. Yet the game proceeded with Oswalt for four more hitters. And into that span, Japan worked an RBI triple, an RBI single and a run-scoring double. "I tried to get [John] Grabow up," Johnson said. "I didn't think it was going to take him so long. It was my fault. It took him longer in the cool weather to get loose." How much longer? "I hoped to have him ready by the [No. 8] hitter. But it was awfully cold out there, and he has a little bit of a tight groin muscle. And I should have just got him up a little earlier than I did." Afterward, there was the predictable batch of questions about whether the Asian style of ball -- sound execution, attention to detail, moving runners along on the bases -- could teach the Americans a thing or two. The short answer is, probably yes. But that's also far too simple to be anywhere near a complete answer. It is difficult to take this tournament seriously when Johnson, say, allows Peavy to remain in the game while getting bludgeoned (six runs allowed in two innings as Puerto Rico mercy-ruled Team USA earlier in the tournament) because he needs to "get his work in." Or when he mismanages his bullpen in a single-elimination situation. Or when he says, as he did Sunday, that he thought Oswalt "was throwing good enough to stay in the ballgame." Or when he sends young Evan Longoria to the plate as a pinch-hitter as the potential tying run with one out and a man on third in the eighth -- without warning. Shane Victorino was set to bat when, suddenly, Johnson told Longoria -- a kid who just joined the team and had not yet batted in the WBC -- to go get 'em. "He probably had a gut feeling," Victorino said. It is difficult to take this tournament seriously when Team USA players shuttle in and out like it's a country club, guys canceling at the last minute before the start of the WBC or abandoning ship midstream because of injuries. And then, in the case of Boston second baseman Dustin Pedroia, they're healthy enough to play in a Grapefruit League game a few days later. It's difficult to take it seriously when Team USA is playing guys out of position -- Mark DeRosa was at first Sunday against Japan, Adam Dunn in right field -- or playing guys based more on reputation than skill -- Jeter was at shortstop and Jimmy Rollins at designated hitter when the other way around clearly would be more conducive to winning. Team USA committed three errors Sunday, and four of Japan's nine runs were unearned. It is difficult to take it seriously when so many elite players, especially pitchers -- CC Sabathia, Josh Beckett, A.J. Burnett and Jonathan Papelbon, to name a few -- continue to pass. Especially noticeable is the lack of pitching provided by the Yankees and Boston (outside of Daisuke Matsuzaka, who started for Japan on Sunday), who remain politically correct publicly regarding the WBC but privately, obviously, prefer to put winning above anything else and not take any chances with their meal tickets. And can you blame them? "I know we have some general managers who are somewhat reticent. I'm going to be as kind here as I can," Commissioner Bud Selig was saying the other night. "Look, the clubs hear this all the time, but I'm going to say this to you as directly as I can: This is a time in life where I know how important your individual club is -- this is a time to put the best interests of the game ahead of your own provincial self-interest." So what's left is Japan-Korea for a fifth time in this WBC, a title game that is sure to be crisp and riveting -- and put much of this country into a deep slumber. What's left is for Jeter to return to the Yankees, and Wright to the Mets, and Ryan Braun to Milwaukee, and for them probably to answer several more stray questions along the lines of whether America's game really is America's game anymore. Which ignores the premise, of course, of what might happen if Team USA truly fielded a team on which all of its elite players played. Jeter, to his credit, wouldn't bite when asked about that. "I'd love to get another crack at [Japan] with the same team tomorrow," he said. "That's just making excuses. You can't sit here and say if we had this person or if we had that person. They played good." True. But as for what Selig says is the greater good, the growth of the WBC, until Team USA gets serious about installing a manager who isn't past his prime and fielding a truly elite team, this tournament is never going to be anything more than an interesting novelty in this country. metirish Mar 23 2009 11:03 AM ] "He probably had a gut feeling," Victorino on being pinch hit for........ouch LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 23 2009 01:09 PM "... until Team USA gets serious about installing a manager who isn't past his prime... " Davey was let go by Schott after a .543 win percentage over parts of three years because she disapproved of his living with his fiancee before their marriage. He was let go in Baltimore because Angelos disliked him personally, not because he was ineffective-- despite early exits, his Orioles made the playoffs in both years he managed them, and he took the AL Manager of the Year award the day he was fired. He was let go in LA after one losing season-- his ONLY full one as a manager-- and finishing in second place the next. He stayed away because of family issues-- among other things, his own throat cancer, and his daughter's death in 2005. Thanks to the preponderance of LOOGYs and ROOGYs and the accompanying short benches, the game today-- with fewer real creative opportunities for strategy-- is MUCH less complicated, save for bullpen overmanagement. There's a reason why Lou Pinella-- who never really stood out as a creative problem-solver or master switch-puller among peers like Whitey, Sparky, Davey and the like-- shines brightly among the current crowd (see: use of DeRosa/Fontenot/Theriot in covering for Soriano's absence last year). I'm not a huge fan of most Sportsline stuff-- the editors apparently encourage their columnists (whether explicitly or implicitly) to take strong opinions and "mix it up" (see: Gregg Doyel, Ray Ratto) rather than offer well-considereded analysis that might come off as wishy-washy. It's like the nightmarish inverse of ESPN.com, or talk radio in online text form. This seems more of the same. smg58 Mar 23 2009 01:25 PM Could somebody explain to me why you're more likely to get hurt in a WBC game than in a spring training game? LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 23 2009 01:40 PM ="smg58"]Could somebody explain to me why you're more likely to get hurt in a WBC game than in a spring training game? From the Out of My Ass Reckonin' Department: Is there any increased likelihood of the actual incidence of injury? Probably not much, if any. The likelihood of oplayers' pushing their recovery time (see: Chipper) or playing through an injury (see: Youk, Wright, Choo) when the games' results "mean something" is probably a good deal greater, though. Benjamin Grimm Mar 23 2009 01:50 PM ="smg58":3i5xg2vu]Could somebody explain to me why you're more likely to get hurt in a WBC game than in a spring training game?[/quote:3i5xg2vu] The theory is that, in a game that "counts" the player is more likely to push himself than in a spring training exhibition game. metsmarathon Mar 23 2009 02:16 PM ="G-Fafif"]]"There is a time in life to put the best interests of the game ahead of your provincial, self-interests." I get the good of the country, good of the team, good of the game, et al, but I'm a baseball fan because I have provincial self-interest in baseball. Anything left over after that stems from the provincial self-interest. Bud's overseen some positive developments in his job. But he gets on my nerves. but that statement is not spoken to you, the fan. it is spoken to the owners, who bud feels should look at the bigger picture - widening the scope and draw of major league baseball - which is intended to increase business and revenues for the league, and all teams. the health of the league as a whole should be in the interest of each owner. incur a slight risk this year in exchange for a greater reward in subsequent years. metsmarathon Mar 23 2009 02:18 PM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":2z0lbidl]="metsmarathon":2z0lbidl]i'm surprised nobody (to my knowledge) has looked at how the participants in the last WBC fared in-season vs their prior and subsequent years. i mean, there's all this hullabaloo about how the WBC simply sheds the players in it, and how its gotta be just awful for them, and how much it surely will ruin their season and the hopes of their paying fans. yet there's been no objective attempt that i've seen to prove or disprove it.[/quote:2z0lbidl] A little more follow-up on the question, courtesy of the Times' Dan Rosencheck/PECOTA. (In brief: over an admittedly tiny sample size-- we'll have better numbers after this year, naturally-- pitchers seem to deteriorate a bit, while hitters seem to show a marginal increase in giddy-up.) http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/22/sports/baseball/22score.html?_r=2&sq="Nate%20Silver"%20AND%20"World%20Baseball%20Classic"&st=cse&adxnnl=1&scp=1&adxnnlx=1237825385-LcX8RqYR39YBg+bH8EnSYw[/quote:2z0lbidl] i read that too. the one thing that it skipped over was how did pecota do for those players in other year, or how did pecota do for other players in the wbc year? does pecota tend to undervalue hitters and overvalue pitchers? probably not, on the whole, but the article left it unsaid. metirish Mar 23 2009 02:19 PM One day when the WBC is a big deal and MLB Network is the exclusive carrier the owners will love it. Edgy DC Mar 23 2009 02:22 PM All that about Johnson is true. Plus add to this ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr":o8pqbeb3]He was let go in Baltimore because Angelos disliked him personally, not because he was ineffective-- despite early exits, his Orioles made the playoffs in both years he managed them, and he took the AL Manager of the Year award the day he was fired.[/quote:o8pqbeb3] the fact that his Orioles were screwed over as the eventual World Series champs and their Beacon benefited from cheating. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 23 2009 02:44 PM The really oversimplified answer is that PECOTA relies on fitting a given player's past stats to the performance of comparables (fetched using the Bill James concept of similarity scores); it then bases the future perf forecast on the historical performance of these comparables (like a "prediction of best fit"). [it's the current statistical crux of Baseball Prospectus' annual season previews-- damn good, oughta-be-required reading.] It tends to be a bit conservative-- wins aren't nearly as evenly distributed as its models predict-- but generally VERY good at predicting both individual and team-- via guessing at depth chart/playing time for the coming year-- performance (for instance, forecasting the Rays' rise last year, minus a handful of wins). Not only that, but the margin of error-- which was best last year among major projection systems like Marcel, CHONE and Vlad (and Vegas betting odds)-- has decreased steadily in every year between its inception in 2003 and today. In short, I heart PECOTA. metsmarathon Mar 23 2009 03:04 PM oh, i do too. but as far as using it to compare the WBC participants expected outcomes versus their actual outcomes leaves me wanting a control group.

="seawolf17"]Who's looking at her boots? I was. Oh, wait, that said boots. Nevermind. PS I'd do everything to her. Ruined!

Holy hell. This is saccharine enough to give even Steve J. Rogers diabetes.

You get credit for enthusiasm in posting this 17 days shy of first pitch. I approve. I am pondering taking a half day that day, to go home and watch the game on my big-ass-TV.

Beating the Astros is popular these days. They suck.

willpie wrote: Turned up to 11! Thanks for the assist, Fman99. Sure. I suspect we'll get one more too -- most leagues that get posted only will get you prizes if you buy in. This is a sweet deal, you're a good egg to put up the booty.

Attaboy. I posted the link on another FBL forum site that has a "classifieds" board. Up to 9 owners...