Centerfield

Boobird's Failsafe: "If a player is booed, and then fails, the ire of fans is shown to be justified. If the player is booed, and then excels, then the ire of fans is again shown to have been justified, because the ire and the fear of ire is what motivates him." You don't find anything self-serving in Vic's post? His tone seems to suggest he's fully aware of the absurdity of in the reasoning. He knowingly leaves himself wide open and seems to take joy in it. I don't call anybody "clueless," but I do disagree with it. And I do and did disagree that Curtis Granderson sucks. And that Michael Cuddyer sucks. I'm not sure we need or needed to return to Granderson, though. Let's start with the distinction between booing and criticizing. Booing a player, who is trying his best, at the game where he can hear it, is different than being critical of a player on a fan forum, designed with the intent to discuss said player (and his teammates). There is also a difference between a fan who is critical of a player, then acknowledges and praises that the player when he turns it around, and the fan that boos a player, then takes credit when the player turns it around. Your post is an attempt to lump me in with self-serving boobirds. That that is my objection. I think it is fairly clear that both Vic and I are joking on the Cuddyer "absolutely no chance to do well" stuff.

The Boobird's Failsafe returns. You've used this phrase before. I'm not sure what this means, but I suspect it's meant to undermine my points about Granderson and Cuddyer. And now I feel constrained to reply. I was happy to eat crow in the other thread because, although it was not the point of the "Sucks" thread, I didn't think that Granderson was going to improve. But he did. A lot. And so, for that reason, I'm happy to to be wrong. But don't take that to mean that somehow my original post was wrong (or that you were correct). On the day I posted the Granderson thread, my points were: 1. Granderson sucks (as of May 6, .690 OPS). 2. Granderson sucked last year too. (.714 OPS) 3. He makes a lot of money. ($16 million) 4. Because he sucks and makes a lot of money, this hurts the team. 5. Despite hurting the team for a year plus, he gets very little criticism. All of those points were and are still, correct. The main arguments offered against my thesis by you and others were (as I interpreted them) as follows: 1. He doesn't suck. He has a good OBP True. He had a good OBP of .364. He also had a slugging PCT of .326. Which means overall he sucked. Shaun Marcum had a great strikeout to walk ratio. But overall ended up 1-10 with an ERA over 5. Suck. 2. I don't care about Granderson. I care about the aggregate of the team. This is just idiotic thinking. And doesn't really contest the fact that Granderson sucked. 3. You can still win with average guys on your team. True. But you would hope highly paid corner OF'ers would not be the "average guys" the other players have to carry. 4. I don't think you should release Granderson. Agreed. Never condoned releasing him. Condoned criticizing him. None of these arguments successfully challenged any of my above points. Curtis Granderson played poorly, and warranted criticism. Then an amazing thing happened. Granderson turned it around and had an OPS over .840 the rest of the way, resulting in a final OPS of .821. Suddenly, Curtis Granderson was great, even carrying the team at times. And though there were lots of reasons for the Mets turnaround, Granderson was right in the middle of things. I suspect that it is your belief that this turnaround undermines my original point. It does not. Granderson with a .690 OPS sucks and hurts the team. Granderson with an .840 OPS is great and helps the team. Now, to address your phrase. You say "Failsafe", with the implication that I say things in a way where I can never be proven wrong. I absolutely agree with this. And the reason this is true is my point was not a prediction. It was a statement of, what I believed to be, very obvious facts. You, and others, chose to contest those facts. Why? I'm not sure. Again, to me, this all seemed very obvious. But that is your right. Your prerogative. But it is very hard to argue against statements of fact backed up by the appropriate numbers. And one should expect resistance when one contests those facts with selective data and ancillary points. And finally, you say "Boobird". And the only intent I can read into this is to apply judgment to my way of thinking. We seldom disagree when I have positive things to say about the team or a player. The arguments we have are when I am critical. That's fine. I understand we have different philosophies on what it means to be a fan. You seem to be more supportive and positive. I like to believe I am more even handed (positive when warranted, negative when warranted). But some may say I lean more to critical. That's fine. The difference here is I don't feel the need to undermine your philosophy with, simply-stated, name calling. I can sit here and say "The Clueless Optimists' Failsafe" or something of the like. But there is no point in doing so. When resorting to name-calling or altering another's point, to further your interests, you are likely on the losing end of the argument.

G-Fafif wrote: All teams and their associated cities that stand in the way of Met destiny and/or density invite animus. Screw the Royals. Let's Go Mets. This. Fuck Kansas City. Go Mets. (I also heard that Duaner Sanchez's cab driver was wearing a KC Royals hat. Can't give away my source here but it's rock solid.)

Ceetar wrote: .287/.330/.425 for a 112 wRC+ since his DL stint. If you buy that a lot of his problem was his knee injury (and he reportedly was hurting more and more as a game went on, and his numbers heavily reflected this) then he's basically Michael Cuddyer, career 12% better than average guy. Or you know, slightly better than Daniel Murphy guy. He's a better hitter than Juan Lagares. He might be better in the platoon split than Granderson and is at least a safer bet than Conforto in that regard. He's almost definitely better than Uribe, Plawecki and Johnson. Plawecki yes, but Uribe and Johnson? Both had OPS's in the mid 700's. (Johnson .750, Uribe .737). I'd go with either of those guys over MC at this point (so long as Uribe is healthy). I agree about a Granderson/Cuddyer platoon. I think that is probably the way to go for RF in 2016. But there's no way I'd play him in the field during this WS. It's probably his injury but he's looking bad out there.

Edgy MD wrote: Centerfield wrote: Michael Cuddyer sucks. Your track record in these declarations is less than strong. Yet surprisingly consistent. Like I said. Michael Cuddyer sucks. There is no chance he will get any big hits in the World Series.

Edgy MD wrote: Well, he acknowledged September. October is scarcely relevant, as small sample as it is. At this point he's not a corner outfielder, but a reserve. And not sucky. You will sing of him before all is said and done. Why not sing now? Wait. Not sucky for a corner outfielder? Or not sucky as a reserve? He certainly sucked as a corner outfielder. Which is why he is now a reserve. And I (or WP) can justifiably criticize him since he was signed to be a good, run producing (starting) corner outfielder. I'm glad you have confidence that he will do something good. I am saying unequivocally that there is no chance in the world he will get a big hit in the World Series. None. Zero. Michael Cuddyer sucks.

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Well, there's what seems, and what actually is. He undeniably had a bad September, but in July and August he was a valuable role player: July, 10 games: .310/.355/.510 August, 17 games: .375/.423/.583 Sure. But what were his numbers in April, May, June, September and October? (Don't bother to look, they are not good.) He had a good stretch in July and August, but he's not been good otherwise. He has a .699 OPS for the season. That is terrible for a corner outfielder. And it is about 125 to 150 points lower than I was hoping for when we signed him. He is extremely lucky that the two balls he misplayed in Game 1 of the NLDS never came back to bite them. Michael Cuddyer Sucks. And because he sucks, there is absolutely, positively no way he does anything good during the World Series. Now way he gets a big hit late to win a game. Mark this down. You can take this to the bank.

I don't think Kevin was a jinx. I think Steve Gelbs is just that awesome.

1985 vs. 1986. It's on!

Ceetar wrote: El Segundo Escupidor wrote: They were mismanaged sure. But at the end of the day losing Pedro and El Duque was the difference between winning and losing a 7 game series against a team who had a starting rotation of Weaver, Suppan, Carpenter and somebody else not worth remembering. I don't really think the '06 team was particularly mismanaged. It was those injuries that really did them in, and the timing of them. The timing of Wagner's blown saves (did it come out that he was hurting afterwards? I forget). Hell, if Perez wasn't a throw in in the deadline trade, do they have to go back to Trachsel for game 7? Alay Soler? Mike Pelfrey? That team had no pitching. Even if Pedro and Hernandez were healthy enough to pitch they weren't difference makers at that point. If that team had any one of deGrom, Harvey or Syndegaard, they win the Cardinals series easily and win the WS. I know that the pitching was pretty solid in Game 7, but in a do or die game, anything can happen. I get that Valentin got a hit in the 9th, but if the Mets had the lead, Wagner pitches the 9th instead of Heilman. But who knows. Maybe Billy fucking blows it.

Two Broke Girls: It's kinda like Laverne & Shirley and kinda like The Mary Tyler Moore Show, except neither of those shows sucked. LOLOLOL

Elster88 wrote: Johnny Lawrence??? @WilliamZabka: you're alright @ralphmacchio good game @RealMartinKove is choking me out in the parking lot. congrats @Mets take it all the way!! Edit I got it wrong Johnny is a Dodgers fan he was earlier giving Macchio the business as Macchio rooted on the Metd with a clever tweet comparing the Utley slide to "sweep the leg" This whole exchange is amazing. I can't believe this is not front-page news. For guys around my age this is the greatest thing ever. The only thing I can imagine being better is a Mets-themed Millenium Falcon.

More: 1. Holding onto the Pitching: Sure. No way you give up Harvey and Wheeler. But having the sense to hold on to lesser names like deGrom and Matz when others may now have known how good they were going to be. JCL made the point that if a lesser GM were running things, they might have been traded. I agree with this. Imagine if we unloaded deGrom a few years ago for Fernando Fucking Rodney. 2. Holding out Harvey until 2015: And resisting the lure of selling more tickets by having the return of Harvey in September of 2014. 3. Niese/Gee: Not unloading them for junk just for the sake of making a trade. Gee didn't do much for the team this year, but he was still at least available. Niese, though not my favorite, was certainly a worthwhile contributor.

I'm looking forward to the Billy Crystal movie where his character wears a neon yellow arm sleeve.

seawolf17 wrote: You know, there's definitely bandwagon backlash. But really, screw that. You want on? HOP ON and join the ride. The more, the merrier. I actually listened to Francesa for the first time in forever yesterday; he made the point that there's a set of people who will always be MFY fans, and set of people who will always be Mets fans, but there's a set of people in the middle who will waffle. And honestly, I'm okay with welcoming those folks back. This.

Getting back to the original topic: Terry Collins No crow for me here. I have always liked Collins. I have never understood the sentiment that he is just a placeholder. And I certainly didn't understand the clamoring for Wally Backman. The only mistake I can remember Collins making was failing to throw a fit in Game 2 of the NLDS. I love that he was out there arguing the ivy play. Hopefully he's learned his lesson. Maybe I like him because I'm comparing him to Willie and Jerry before him? And Art Fucking Howe? I don't know, but I like Collins. I get a pass here. Sandy Alderson Big heaping pile of crow for me on this one. I was ecstatic when they hired Sandy. I was so frustrated that we had Minaya, a really nice guy and an excellent scout, but a guy who seemed not all that bright. It felt like we were being run by a C student. When Sandy came, I was thrilled that we finally had the smartest guy in the room. But last winter left me disappointed. We had built to that point and had a chance to go for it, and Alderson played it like Safe Sandy Small Balls. The offense sucked and I had little faith Sandy could fix it. But then in July, Sandy went big. He turned into Spectacular Sandy Big Balls. Plus that story about Jeff Wilpon saying "Go for it". Wow. There isn't enough crow to be eaten here. The Mets of May and June No crow to be eaten here. The Mets of May and June sucked. If we ran those teams out in August and September, we'd be in full off-season mode. A few more to round out this list... Curtis Granderson Open mouth. Insert crow. Michael Cuddyer Still sucks.

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: El Segundo Escupidor wrote: *shrugs* If Beltran made that catch i guarantee you he would not have been vilified for his AB the way he was. But nobody remembers Endy's AB (against an ailing Jeff Suppan) because of what he did the inning before. What Endy giveth, Endy taketh away. My unsung goat in that game was Valentin. He whiffed with one out and a guy on third I'm pretty sure. Exactamundo. If Valentin gives the Mets the lead there we win that game. Far too much is made of the Beltran at-bat. That was the game right there.

I started the thread "Curtis Granderson Sucks".

So not "purity" as they don't eat assholes?

I think his nickname here was Dolphin Face.

What a strange series. Even after 4 games, I'm not sure I really got to know this Cubs team. And weird that after a playoff series, I have no ill will against any of them. I mean, I hated Turner, I dreaded Adrian Gonzalez, was petrified of Kershaw and Greinke, and wanted Utley's head. But I'm pretty cool with all the Cubs. Especially Schwarber. I guess that's what happens when you never trail during an entire series. Will probably feel a lot different when we face them a year from now.

I would love to meet Sell the Team NOW!!!!. I mocked him in the late 90's/early 2000's. But these last few years have shown me this man was ahead of his time. I'd love to tell him that I agree with him and that I was wrong. As to the original post: 1. Agreed that crying over anything on your list was silly. They were silly complaints. 2. Disagree that the winter produced a league champion. I think years of rebuilding, being able to unload veterans for prospects, and the maturation of Minaya era prospects put them in a position to go for it. I think last winter they failed to accomplish that task. The end result was a predictable .500 level team that could not score. 3. The difference maker happened in July. During that 10 day stretch Alderson changed course and made the necessary moves and they have paid off as well as we could have possibly hoped.

"Sure. As soon as Cal is done."

You know those fantasy lineups where you say I'd start '85 Gooden, followed by '69 Seaver? '15 deGrom '15 Syndegaard '15 Harvey '15 Matz

Benjamin Grimm wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I just got a pretty fantastic, pretty f�cking classy congratulations gift from an unexpected source. That's really nice! I'm so happy that David Wright is going to get to play in a World Series. I'm glad he's being rewarded for that leap of faith that he took in resigning with the Mets. I have to admit, I had my doubts it would happen during his remaining time with the Mets. What are you talking about? You're the guy who said Colon was going to pitch in the 2015 World Series.