Centerfield

I don't know that what you're saying is correct. My understanding is that the "team" cannot sell any shares in itself. The team, the Mets are the asset, not the owners. The Wilpons sold minority shares in the Mets. And the Wilpons (Fred and Jeff) sold them to other Wilpon family members, SNY and Dave Einhorn. The cash infusion that such sale generated went toward paying down the loan from MLB, and paying down some of the debt to Bank of America. The reason that there was a loan from MLB and a crippling loan from Bank of America is because the Wilpons leveraged the Mets. They took out loans against the revenue the team derives. If they lost $70 million, as Fred claimed at the time, it's because of the crippling debt he placed upon the Mets when the Wilpons took out loans. Those proceeds of those loans were used to make Madoff payments.

Sandy has done a terrible job with the farm system. I don't see how anyone can really refute this. In this recent ranking, it was ranked 27th out of 30. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2731819-re-ranking-all-30-mlb-farm-systems-at-the-end-of-2017s-milb-season Now, of course this is subjective, but the low rating is pretty well accepted across the board. And sure, it's easier to have a better farm system when rebuilding, but that hasn't stopped the Yankees, Dodgers, Nationals and Cardinals from being much stronger than us. And that's not just this year. The Dodgers just graduated Bellinger, and that hasn't slowed them down at all. Simply stated, these clubs are just better at developing players. It's not hard to see why. Look at the number of impact players Alderson has drafted and developed. It's Michael Conforto. That's it. The jury is still out on Rosario and Smith, but that's a terrible track record for someone who went through a rebuild and is now in his 7th year. Of the players he traded away, only Michael Fulmer has found success elsewhere. By contrast, the Minaya years produced Harvey, deGrom, Matz, Murphy, Duda, Dickey, Familia, Mejia, Parnell and Flores. Also, Sandy only gets production from the 1st Round (or supplemental first round). Conforto and Fullmer were both first round. So was Smith. Nimmo and Cecchini are role players, but they were also first rounders. He gets nothing after that. No gems like deGrom or Murphy. And yes, 2015 was nice, but that team won only 90 games. The only reason we won the division that year is because the Nationals happened to stumble in 2015. If they had reached the mid-90's win total they typically reach, we would have been WC winners. And that post-season might have been very different. Seven years, two winning seasons. Highest win total is 90. Terrible farm system. The only good thing you can say about Sandy is that he fosters more faith than the Wilpons.

Sounds fair. This part hits home. It’s easy to look at what the Marlins are doing with regard to their payroll and call it an embarrassment. What the Mets are doing is arguably worse. The franchise put out a winning product for a couple years and now appear willing to pocket the goodwill the fanbase has shown. The team has been outspent by the Kansas City Royals over the last four seasons and it looks like that won’t change in 2018, either, even as Kansas City enters what’s likely to be a rebuilding phase.

I think on that I can agree with you! But I'm glad that there is conversation. Maybe this will spur some spending. Plenty of time left in this off-season to do some damage.

Steve Phillips comes to the defense of the Wilpons. In doing so basically admits they diverted Mets money to private debt. https://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/mets/steve-phillips-fred-wilpon-1.15531742

Lefty Specialist wrote: Well, no harm in kicking the tires, but I have to believe he goes to an AL team. Or you know, a contender.

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Who the hell even cares? I mean, what the hell is the point of all of this? The point of all this is that I’m seeing how much control the Wilpons have over the conversation. They started SNY and suddenly they have control over the message from the TV media. That station partners with the Daily News and suddenly that outlet is compromised. They bought Metsblog, gave the 7 Line a kiosk and a license, and now those previously outspoken critics all fall in line.

Nymr83 wrote: Centerfield wrote: And it really is amazing how your reaction to everything is to justify and spin. You see liars and you’re drawn to them. You have this irresistible urge to give them a cover story. Me, I just see a guy who hated the Wilpons, got a licensing deal and shut the hell up to protect his bottom line. OR he never hated the Wilpons, saw anti-Wilpon merchandising as his foothold into the T-shirts marketplace, and pivoted into the more stable "team approved" market when he saw the chance. In other words, maybe he is just a guy trying to make $$ and his 'views' on the Wilpons are just whatever is convenient. So self-serving whichever way the wind blows? Lol. I think my characterization is actually kinder.

And it really is amazing how your reaction to everything is to justify and spin. You see liars and you’re drawn to them. You have this irresistible urge to give them a cover story. Me, I just see a guy who hated the Wilpons, got a licensing deal and shut the hell up to protect his bottom line.

Possible. But not likely. But I'll humor this. Let's say over the last six years his eyes were opened to the truth and his views did change. If that were true, and he wrote "Hey guys, I know what I said in the past, and it turns out I was dead wrong. The Wilpons are great guys. Here's why..." then I'd listen to him. Hear him out. Maybe he really did have a change of heart. But that's not what he did. Instead, he: 1. Never acknowledged his "Sell the Team" past. Completely ignored it. Pretended that never happened. 2. Attempted to re-write his philosophy as if he felt this way all along. We're a group that's devoted to the Mets, and that's not going to change. Call it blind devotion if you will. That's sports fandom in general. Blind devotion? Really? Look, there are tons of guys out there who view fandom that way. None of them start a brand with "Sell the Team" shirts. None. 3. Characterized any attempts at change as fruitless. Would I love for the payroll to rise and more superstars to land in Queens? Absolutely. Sadly, some things are just out of our control Would I like mass shootings to stop? Do I think it's bad our children are getting shot in school? Absolutely. Sadly, some things are just out of our control 4. Re-cast blame on a much safer target. There is still time for Sandy to make some moves. Let's hope he does more of that, and less of his comic relief with reporters. Why are we even mad at the Wilpons? It's Sandy. He's been too busy working on his comic routine. That's the dude who needs to get his shit together. 5. Shirked responsibility... Not once have I claimed to be the "voice of Mets fans." No one should tell you how to spend your time and/or money. Wait, what's your tagline? For the fans, by the fans Right. 6. ...then just flat out lied. No one should tell you how to spend your time and/or money. SELL THE 7 LINE

A few guys on twitter are trolling the 7 Line retweeting his stuff from 2011. He brags about wanting to fill the stadium with Sell the Team shirts. Laughs about seeing Jeff Wilpon while wearing one. You know, if you’re going to come out defiant and claim you are a fan that follows blindly and that nothing can be done about it, you better hope that there is no evidence online exposing you as a bullshit artist.

What I like about that lineup, illustrated as such, is that it reminds us that our incumbent 2B has posted OPS's of .788 and .795. He's hit 16 and 18 HR's respectively, on a part time basis. And he's only 26. I am all for upgrading this offense, especially if it costs only money. But before we start giving away valuable chips in a trade for Cesar Hernandes, let's make sure we are actually upgrading first.

Also, I think the whole concept of "gambling" centers around the ability to make a conscious decision. Sandy is holding his cards instead of playing them. Sure it's a bit risky, but you know Sandy, he's wild and crazy. This is a much better public perception than "Hey look at poor broke-ass Sandy, waiting around hoping prices fall. Man, someone buy that dude a drink. He looks like he needs one."

Yes, but she heavily colors the situation to make it seem far less egregious, and more like a calculated decision. According the Carig, the Wilpons are cheap and disconnected. According to Ackert, the Mets are shrewd, calculating, gambling that their bet will pay off. After all, they have had success before. It’s not out of the realm of possibility it could pay off this season as well. Her message, hey we did great last year, it's the same thing this year. Everything is fine. And when it comes to spending money: Though the Mets won’t say it publicly or on the record, it is obvious they are not going to go out and spend big money on free agents this winter. They spent their big money last year bringing back Yoenis Cespedes, they are betting that with him being healthy next season, their offense isn’t as bad as it looked in 2017. The undertone there is unmistakeable. It's the "Mets" that won't spend money, not the Wilpons. And by the way, just remember, we spent "big money" last year. And we still have Cespedes, so there's reason to be optimistic that the offense will be better. This is spin at its finest. It's the Wilpons that won't spend. Not the "Mets". I'm sure Sandy would spend if you gave him the money. I'm sure Mickey Callaway wouldn't say no to Wade Davis. I'm sure Noah and Jacob and Steven wouldn't kick Yu out of bed. The force that's preventing this from happening is the Wilpons. And they did not spend "big money" last year, on Cespedes or anyone else. Their payroll ranked 12th in baseball despite being top 5 in revenues. They collected insurance on David Wright all season long. This is an outright lie. And it is folly to think the offense will be better if Cespedes is healthy. They lost Bruce, Duda, Granderson and Walker. No player can offset four. And that's why it's a shill job.

Back on point, Craig Calcaterra at NBC joins in. http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2017/12/18/marc-carig-mets-owners-are-cheap-unaccountable-unconcerned/

Fair point. Didn’t realize Yelich was subpar in CF. Let’s get JD Martinez!

Red Sox out on Hosmer per multiple reports. Speculation now is he might go back to KC. Maybe Sandy kicks the tires? I wonder if one of these big names will end up being a bargain like Encarnacion.

Doesn’t he play CF? Did I make that up?

Statements like this are really what I'm alluding to: 41Forever wrote: Teach him to pivot if the questions go to places where you don't want to go. Have Jeff sit with the Seven Line for an inning. Shake hands and pose for some selfies at the old Home Run Apple. Anything that shows the fans that the owners are listening. Never do you say that Jeff Wilpon should address the payroll. Explain why the Mets are hamstrung. Be honest, and provide the fans with an X year plan out of this mess. Pivot off the tough questions. Kiss a few babies and shake a few hands. That should appease the unwashed masses. They won't even notice Jose Reyes starting at 2B.

41Forever wrote: 41Forever wrote: If I were advising them, I'd make Jeff available to a couple of the higher-profile writers. Not sure, but I think I just had one of those aneurysm things. Not saying it would be easy. But if he's going to be the guy running the team, he should be out there a little. When the Cubs had a new owner -- and his name escapes me -- and the team was still awful, the new owner walked around the upper deck talking to fans and handing kids little spongy baseballs. I spoke to him briefly and he was nice. Certainly gives the fans a nice impression. It wouldn't hurt the Mets to have the Wilpons do something along those lines. Have Jeff sit with the Seven Line for an inning. Shake hands and pose for some selfies at the old Home Run Apple. Anything that shows the fans that the owners are listening. M. Donald Grant supposedly once said something like, "They players aren't the Mets. Mrs. Payson and I are the Mets." The Wilpons need to show that they aren't the current version of M. Donald Grant, who didn't realize that the game had long passed him by. I feel like this is a very Republican approach to a real problem. Do nothing to solve the problem, but engage in some PR to make it seem like you care. Appease them a bit. The public is too dumb to notice that nothing changed.

Benjamin Grimm wrote: And six years later, that sentiment is as valid as ever. Not if your Darren Meenan. Today, he feels like this is an issue that should be decided by the voters of Alabama.

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I don't really pay any attention to them. Have they never made a shirt that's at all snarky or sarcastic about the Mets? I'm guessing they haven't. It's funny you should ask. Way back in 2011, before their nice cozy deal with the Mets, the 7 Line became famous for this t-shirt. I'm sure it's just a coincidence that they are fine with the Wilpons now.

G-Fafif wrote: Darren Meenan, not endeavoring to be the Voice of the Fan: https://the7line.com/blogs/the-7-line/im-not-the-voice-of-mets-fans-root-how-you-want-to Nor would anybody in his Wright mind. Rooting for the same team does not (as we continually and colorfully remind one another here) confer agreement on its details. Their motto is "For the Fans, By the Fans". They sell merchandise under the premises that they are not MLB, or the Wilpons, but rather, one of us. The fans. And whether you think the Wilpons are right, or wrong, the payroll issue is front and center to this team. When they ignore it, it's no accident. Have an issue with the Wilpons? Say so! Think the Wilpons are totally justified? Happy to hear them explain why. But ignore the issue completely because they get a nice little kiosk in CitiField? Sure, no one can tell them what to do with their blog or their business. But just as they are not obligated to do anything they don't think is appropriate, I am free to draw conclusions about them. And no, no one has to address any one particular issue, no matter how pervasive. But they danced ever so close with the Brian Erni "I'm frustrated" article last week. He vented his frustration and directed it at Alderson. The name "Wilpon" never showed up. That was intentional, and self-serving. Personally, I think they should change their motto to "For the Fans, By Fans Who Have a Financial Interest in Staying in the Good Graces of Ownership"

Yankees trying to put a package together to get former Met prospect Michael Fulmer. Would be a huge addition to the staff and maybe the piece that puts them over the edge. They have the prospects to make the move. You get the feeling the Yankees will outperform the Mets this winter even if you don’t count Giancarlo Stanton.

I think the article accomplished a lot. Sure, there is plenty of offseason left and there are plenty of good options still on the board. But that's why the article needed to come when it did. To have any chance to spur activity. It may not amount to anything, but at least he (and we) tried. You may not have learned much, but at least the message is out there. The Wilpons are at fault. It's something we all knew, but it's different to put that message out there in black and white. It also served to show who supports that message, and who elects to turn a blind eye. It was, by far, the single most popular Mets column written this post season. And it wasn't even close. You either rallied around it, or ignored it. There are so many guys out there that purport to be the voice of the Mets fan. Metsblog. The 7 Line Army. All the beat writers. After Carig's article, if a reporter/blogger/fan group leader ignores this, it's intentional. And we learn something about that individual. It's just one article and by itself it won't accomplish anything. But maybe it spurs another article, or a movement on Twitter, with more voices joining in. And maybe those voices become a chorus, and maybe that chorus becomes deafening until MLB has no choice but to do something. Who knows. But I have to try.