stevejrogers

Philly leads 1 zip in the 4th Check that, Braves up 2-1 thanks to a Brian McCann homer. Seattle up 5-1 (3 in the top of the 4th) in the Bronx, also in the 4th.

Elster88 wrote: Actually it was Harang. Hopelss, HOPELESS personnel-Howard Cosell

Mission Accomplished! Aaron Harang is the victim ending the 2nd inning. OE: Don't ask...

A Boy Named Seo wrote: Steve, we need to get you laid. Apparantly I'm not geeky enough to go through two months of scoreboards to see how many times the Mets have won on the same day the Braves and Yankees both lost before Friday. So I do get out.

="Elster88"]You really can't do anything quite right huh? ]Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:03 am Post subject: Not at that time, after coming home from the Devil Ray win apparantly. Note to self, wait untill the next day to do proper research and THEN post...

K About TE's great run in the '70s Great book, encompasses the entire Big Red Machine era, before and even the last attempts at glory in the early 1980s. And that era boasted probably one of the finest starting 8s in baseball history Perez, Bench and Morgan are in Cooperstown, Rose would be if not for his gambling habits. Concepcion is a borderline HOFer and that trio in the outfield weren't too shaby (except when the left fielder played in New York) Concepcion joined Bench, Morgan and Perez as retired number honorees, and all except for Rose (obvious reasons) and Geronimo are in the Reds Hall of Fame. Others from that era in the Reds HOF are: Pitchers: Jack Billingham, Gary Nolan, Tom Seaver (read Mets Guy In Michigan's feelings on that subject), Don Gullett, Clay Carroll, Wayne Granger Infielders: Lee May, Tommy Helms, and Manager Sparky Anderson (also a retired number honoree) and GM Bob Howsam round out that era's Reds HOFers.

="Gwreck"]Yeah, there were a couple missing. #17 July 20 Mets 4, Dodgers 1 St. Louis 4, Atlanta 2 Tampa Bay 14, MYFs 4 #18 August 2 Mets 12, Brewers 4 Houston 12, Atlanta 11 White Sox 13, MFYs 9 #19 August 8 Mets 4, Braves 3 Toronto 15, MFYs 4 #20 August 21 Mets 7, Padres 6 Reds 8, Braves 7 Angels 18, MFYs 9 And the two this weekend were #21 and #22. Catching up

23 19 to make the Braves current streak 2 straight years without a divisional title and 10 to call it a season for the Nats and Fish.

Apparently he was drafted as the compensitory pick for Pedro Martinez!

25 21 to knock the Braves out of divisional contention. 11 each for the Fish and Nats

Monday, GAB in Cincy. Lets get this sucker over with quickly huh Peety? Since last a post was made: Roger Clemens returned and looked like he and Randy Johnson would have what Carlton and Ryan had for a couple of years. A good old fashioned race of flip-flop during the year. But Johnson's injury has him stalled at 4,616. Currently Rocket has an appropriate total of 4,666 Greg Maddux now sits 11th all time with 3,258 and Curt Schilling is knocking on Bob Gibson's door at 3,101 John Smoltz is next in line for 3,000, currently at 2,933.

# 17 Mets 7 Braves 1 Devil Rays 9 Yankees 1

Willets Point wrote: ="Vic Sage"] My favorite kind of game is a crushing victory, where we score 12 runs in the first inning... and then slowly pull away. Its my favorite kind of pennant race as well. MetMaven, is that you? (sorry for the unflattering comparison, but he expressed similar sentiments) Actually, it sounds more like the sentiments of Yankee fans, though that can also be an unflattering comparison. =

Edgy DC wrote: "I can't remember being this disapointed in the regular season ever..." I can, 20 years ago now that I think of it. Specifically the night of 9/11/1987. Still have nightmares

I'm going to be in Atlanta on the weekend of October 12th. If the Mets aren't playing, even if the Braves are or not... I may need some legal representation for what may happen to Turner Field one night! = In all seriousness though, it looks like Fred Wilpon is finally getting meaningfull games in September for the first time since 2001!

seawolf17 wrote: I believe there are other board members (and semi-former board members) in there as well... but I'm pretty sure their review of the book was that it was crap (there were a ton of errors in their articles). Different book, I think you are thinking of For Met Fans Only which took an article Scarlett Knight wrote, without permission (or any attribution to the publishing holder which was either KCMets.com or Inside Pitch) and insinuated basically that Diamond Dad and KC are one and the same!

Willets Point wrote: ="SteveJRogers"] Entertaining book about the relationship the city and the team had, specifically that year's squad who puts the "Bad Guys" of 1986 and the Bronx Zoo to shame in terms of internal strife. I don't think the '86 Mets were torn by internal strife. They partied hard, did drugs and executed cats but got along with one another for the most part. They just fought everyone else. Well not specifically in '86, but Straw had his bouts with Hernandez and others through the years, which is what I was thinking about. Also that 1980 Phillies team seemed like a tough team to warm up to, even if you were a life long Phillie fan. I could see a non-Met fan loving the '86ers, likewise the '76-'81 era Yankees for non-Yankee fans (who weren't predesposed to hating them of course)

K About TE's lone World Championship Entertaining book about the relationship the city and the team had, specifically that year's squad who puts the "Bad Guys" of 1986 and the Bronx Zoo to shame in terms of internal strife.

Dang nabit, just can't get what I want to be done, someone please take over Jose Reyes for me? Thanks

Valadius wrote: Eckersley is in a class all by himself, though, having done all that time as a starter and winning nearly 200 games during his career. Thus I consider Hoffman the first modern closer on his way to the Hall. Eck won 145 games as a pure starter though (1975-1986). Thats a lot, plus the no-hitter, couple of ASGs, one 20 game season and yes there was a time where you could have called him the best in the league, but he really wasn't anything you could say "he's a future HOFer" over though. Eckersley became a HOF soley on his work in the pen, his starting career did not augment it at all, the way John Smoltz's time as a closer will augment his HOF chances.

Valadius wrote: Regarding Pedro, that's not what I mean. What I merely was saying was that we currently have a guy wearing #45, so retiring it would be more than a little bit weird right now. If the Mets were ever serious about honoring Franco/McGraw in such a manner, they would have kept it out of circulation, even if Pedro is a legend. They kept Seaver's 41 out of circulation, despite both of his leavings being very messy. Probably worse than Franco's who just has innuendos of being a power broker with the team. Nothing has ever been alleged more than just the ramblings of message board posters, talk radio callers, and newspaper columnists who never really were on the inside of the Met clubhouse to know what really went on.

Frayed Knot wrote: One more from the 'Overdoing it' file: The Yankees - that would be the Staten Island Yankees - are retiring Robinson Cano's number, His time spent on that team? -- 22 games. Heh, to be fair (and I'd have to check the records) it might just be honoring those who eventually made it to the bigs. The other two are Ching-Meng Wang and ex-Met Jason Anderson

="Valadius"]I am arguing for it, though not to the degree the Astros have. I'd retire #8 for Carter immediately. Then comes the conundrum of how to approach #31 and #45. We'll end up retiring #31 once Piazza hangs up his cleats. But what about John Franco's contributions while wearing that number? And of course, once Piazza came over here, Franco switched to #45, a number I wish we'd retire for Tug McGraw. But Franco might possibly merit retiring a number too - and how would you go about it? Can you honor two players with one number? Or three players with two numbers? And what about Pedro Martinez, who currently wears #45? So I would retire more numbers, but for more significant contributions to this ballclub. For what? Being essentially the Ed Kranepool of the bullpen? We aren't retiring Eddie K's # 7. He (along with Tug) are in the Mets Hall, and maybe if certain feelings die down Franco maybe in so honored as well. What has Pedro done to merit the Mets honoring him? Made an impact his first year sure, but essentially his Met career has been on the same level of Mike Vail (save for him being a future HOFer who was one of the main factors in changing the culture of the clubhouse as opposed to a hotshot rookie).

="Valadius"] There are no true numerical indicators of greatness for a closer - not yet, anyway. I suspect that there will someday be a 500-save club that would be that milestone, but as of now it only has one member - Trevor Hoffman. But the 400 save club was just as exclusive. Should Lee Smith (who got there first) and John Franco be inducted? Plus there are actually more 300 game winners (Glavine is the 23rd) right now than 300 save closers. (an even 20) Yes I know 23 over the entire history of MLB, as opposed to 20 really since the save rule went to effect in 1969 (interestingly enough, Rollie Fingers played in 1968, the only member of the club to do so, but never recorded what would be considered a "save" ) ]How are we going to evaluate closers in the future? And how should we evaluate the closers of the past? Where is the dividing line between the modern era of closers and the past, and how should we consider closers from each? I personally think the modern era of the closer began in the early 1990's. How should we judge the closers of the 70's and 80's? Trevor Hoffman is likely going to be the first modern closer inducted into the Hall of Fame. Nope, using your criteria that is right in HOFer Dennis Eckersley's prime. -MVP & CY year in 1992 -Switches to full time closer in 1987, yeah not the 1990s, but close enough. -Modern bullpens are greatly inspired by LaRussa's A's pens with Honeycutt, Nelson and a cast of thousands filling in the bridge to Eck in the 9th. Oh sure the setup guy had existed before, but LaRussa really got the ball rolling in terms of how bullpens are set up and used today. For better or worse depending your point of view. ]Who else seems likely to join him? Rivera and Wagner stand out in my mind. But who else can we include with them? And who should we consider from the past who have been neglected? Rivera yes, Wagner? Never really thought of it that way. Tell you the truth I'm lukewarm on Hoffman for the same reasons Lee Smith and Jeff Reardon (both of whom enjoyed time being the All Time Saves leader) aren't getting in. Nothing that says "You are watching a legend" the way you do with Rivera. Like you did with Eck, Rollie Fingers, ect. Rich Gossage pretty much is the last of the pre-90s closers IMO who is not in the HOF but should be.

Valadius wrote: Jeff Bagwell's number 5 was retired by the Astros today. This brings our co-expansionees up to eight retired numbers against our three. Bagwell, Jimmy Wynn, Jose Cruz, Mike Scott, Larry Dierker (I'll assume its for his managing years combined with his pitching), Jim Umbricht and Don Wilson as RIP entries. And of course Hall of Famer Nolan Ryan. I hope you aren't arguing that we should be retiring more uniforms, because the Mets seem to have the right approach. Lets see, 37 as kind of a "Thank you for getting us started on the right foot, and please enjoy your role in our front office." 14 as a RIP to the man who guided the Mets to their first ever championship. And of course some guy who happens to be the only "true" Met (You could make an arguement for Carter though) in Cooperstown has 41 retired in his honor. A team HOF seems like a better way of honoring players of distinction the way a Bagwell, Cruz, Wynn and Scott had been for the Astros. FWIW, we did have this discussion a couple of months ago