stevejrogers

Yancy Street Gang wrote: I remember how Robinson's desire to be a major league manager was an ongoing story. Sad that he never got the chance. Also, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Steve Rogers posted a 3,000 word essay about Bill Robinson in the "thread of silence."

Frayed Knot wrote: That sounds about right: 40 per/yr x 7 yrs = 280 and he's ~ 250 away, so depending on how many Barry winds up with. Barry claims he's playing next year but that may not be his choice. Of course ARod has to stay healthy which isn't a given (ask Griffey). He's also ahead of where Pete Rose was for hits at age 32 - but that's mainly because he got an earlier start. He gets fewer hits/yr than Pete so he'll eventually start falling behind the pace on that one. Nah Derek Jeter is going to get the Rose record! = Actually thats what a delusional "Jeter is better than ARod" Yankee fan told me. And I really, really think he wasn't joking.

"Jason Tyner is going to be a real special ballplayer"-Suzyn Waldman after Tyner's debut with the Mets. She really saw him as a Bret Butler type of player.

G-Fafif wrote: ="SteveJRogers"]The only reason Glavine came here was because he would be surrounded by veteran pitchers... To say nothing of dead presidents. Heh, oh of course.

Spot on Greg! Glavine was brought in to be the 2003 version of Mike Hampton, to insure that Al Leiter would not have the pressure of being The Ace like he had been in 2001 and 2002. Glavine should get lumped in with the Vaughns and the Alomars, and to a lesser extent the next year with Kris Benson and Victor Zambrano. The only reason Glavine came here was because he would be surrounded by veteran pitchers like Al Leiter and Steve Traschel, if he knew that Leiter would be gone by the end of the 2004 season and Traschel would be at the end of 2006 and that he would front a staff of Jorge Sosa, John Maine and Oliver Perez would he still have come? Who knows, speculation is that he spurnned the Phillies because of the youth on their staff even though the Phillies were in much better shape than the Mets were in heading into the 2003 season.

Knocking on the door Next up, in Milwaukee, and then HOPEFULLY Chicago, when I shall be in the ballpark on 8/3. Though seeing 301, breaking a tie with Early Wynn and Lefty Grove would be nice as well =

The Man of the Hour arrives Yeah Tom did seem quite tipsy that night.

More assorted shots of the friends and family Took shots of Yogi and Tom entering Didn't realize untill after but seeing Glavine in that shot kind of gave me a little goosebump seeing those two pitching legends (well Seaver SO MUCH more greater than Glavine) in the same shot like that.

Yeah its weeks late but finally got around to getting the pics on photobucket Ralph's name flanked the dasis there with a nifty logo The dasis had a backdrop of Kiner in his vintage Pirate days, early 60's and on the set of Kiner's Korner This is what was displayed on the scoreboard

They are already discussed in this thread, as well as our 3.

For comparison sake, lets look at other retired unis Angels kick us off with 5. 26 for �The Singing Cowboy� in honor of his being the 26th man for Anaheim in 1982. If Autry wanted to honor himself then why the heck not. 29 Rod Carew and 30 Nolan Ryan (while Ryan was still active as a Ranger) were put into mothballs in advance of their HOF enshrinements. Certainly Ryan�s Angel career was probably more important than Carew�s was, Ryan blossomed in California and was the anchor of the staff while Carew brought his legend there and helped lead the way to two AL West crowns. 50 Jimmie Reese in honor of the coach�s 50 years in pro ball. Again its hard to quibble as its not like the Angels have gone overboard with numbers and it is so high up that it is a coach/Spring Training number. 11 Jim Fregosi. Huh? Okay he was a very popular player, and did net a future HOFer and managed the team to their first AL West Crown but I guess I�ll have to know more about Angel history, maybe he was the first genuinely big star in Angel history. Astros go a bit of an overload with 34 Ryan being the only HOFer of the bunch. Offensive stars like 24 Jimmy Wynn, 25 Jose Cruz and 5 Jeff Bagwell (he�ll probably make the Hall though) and of course Craig Biggio (who defiantly will be in Cooperstown) when he hangs them up. Also pitching standouts like 33 Mike Scott and 49 Larry Dierker (who did lead them to multiple NL Central crowns as skipper) Also two RIP uniform retirements for 32 Jim Umbricht and 40 Don Wilson. Back to just the Hall of Famers with the Athletics For reasons unknown no Philadelphia A is so honored (a number of the Oakland honorees played in KC but no genuine KC A really should be honored) but the A�s have 4 numbers retired, all 4 played the majority of their careers or at least built their legacy as A�s. 27 Catfish Hunter, 34 Rollie Fingers, 9 Reggie Jackson and 43 Dennis Eckersley. Also all 4 were retired after gaining entry into Cooperstown. They also have honored the late owner during the 80�s run, Walter Hass. None for the Blue Jays as they have a �Level Of Honor� as a Hall of Fame for great players and other personnel Same holds for the Braves� 5 with the exception of Dale Murphy�s # 3, though all would be retired before they were enshrined. 21 Warren Spahn, 41 Eddie Mathews, 44 Hank Aaron and 35 Phil Niekro (while Knuksie was still active!) Wouldn�t be surprised to see at least 47 for Glavine, 29 for Smoltz and 10 for Larry. Brewers also honor the Hall of Famers, though one will quibble 44 Aaron as he only played 2 seasons. Ditto with 34 Rollie Fingers, but again the only other two are Brewers in the HOF, 19 Robin Yount and 4 Paul Molitor. Skipping ahead to the Cubs who also are quite skimpy on the numbers and with the exception of 10 Ron Santo, which was probably done with an eye towards getting him into the Hall, the honorees are all Cubbie HOFers. 14 Ernie Banks, 26 Billy Williams and 23 Ryne Sandberg Devil Rays� 12 for Wade Boggs is an absolute joke and a waste of time to even discuss. Their expansion brothers the Diamondbacks have yet to retire a number, though I�d expect 51 for Randy Johnson to be put aside. Cardinals and Dodgers have 10 each (and one �name� for the Cardinals honoring Rogers Hornsby) but at least the majority are all HOFers who are known for their days in St. Louis and Brooklyn/LA Cardinals: 6 Stan Musial, 17 Dizzy Dean, 45 Bob Gibson, 20 Lou Brock, 1 Ozzie Smith (all except for �Ole Diz done in advance of Cooperstown) as well as 2 Red Schoendienst, who is a long time Cardinal employee, 9 Enos Slaughter and 42 Bruce Sutter. Cards also have honored 14 for an ill Ken Boyer and 85 (hard to quibble with that high of a number) for the 85 year old owner August Busch. Also the Cardinals honor Jack Buck with a microphone. Dodgers: All except for Alston after their inductions, 32 Sandy Koufax, 39 Roy Campanella, 42 Jackie Robinson, 24 Walt Alston, 4 Duke Snider, 1 Pee Wee Reese, 53 Don Drysdale, 2 Tom Lasorda and 20 Don Sutton. Lone exception is honoring the sudden death of long time player and coach, 19 Jim Gilliam. The Giants also have a bloated list with 12 honorees, 8 players and 4 names, but all are Hall of Famers though. The names are broadcast legends Russ Hodges and Lon Simmons along with New York legends Christy Mathewson and John McGraw. The players; 11 Carl Hubbell, 4 Mel Ott, 24 Willie Mays, 27 Juan Marichal, 44 Willie McCovey, 3 Bill Terry, 30 Orlando Cepeda and 36 Gaylord Perry. Probably the only quibble is Perry in terms of his Giant career as opposed to his time in Cleveland and San Diego, but hey he is still a HOFer and in as a Giant. All except for Terry, Cepeda, Perry and the names were done before their inductions into Cooperstown. Cleveland has 7 numbers on the wall, though 6 players as they honored their streak of 455 consecutive sellouts from 95 to 01 with a �retirement.� For the most part they are HOFers, 3 Earl Averill, 5 Lou Boudreau, 19 Bob Feller, 21 Bob Lemon and 14 Larry Doby. The lone exception, 18 Mel Harder who after a fine career was a coach with the Indians for a long time as well. The Mariners have no retired unis, however 24 has yet to be used since Ken Griffey Jr. was traded to the Reds prior to the 2000 season. The Marlins have one uni retired, #5 in honor of the late Carl Barger who was named the Team President in July of 1991, died suddenly before the Fish ever played their first game. The Marlins chose the uniform of Barger�s all time favorite player, Joe DiMaggio. For what its worth the Expos put 3 numbers, honoring 4 players in mothballs. All three have appeared on the backs of Washington Nationals. 8 for Hall of Famer Gary Carter, 10 for fan favorites Rusty Staub and Andre Dawson, and 30 for fan favorite Tim Raines. Baltimore with 6 also continues the trend of just the no doubt future HOFers with 20 Frank Robinson, 5 Brooks Robinson, 4 Earl Weaver, 22 Jim Palmer, 33 Eddie Murray and 8 Cal Ripken Then we have the Padres. While only 4 retired jerseys they do seem to be all over the map. 6 for Steve Garvey and 35 for Randy Jones would indicate some sort of honoring great Padres, but then they have only honored Dave Winfield�s 31 after his induction and Tony Gwynn�s 19 after he retired. Both Pennsylvania teams have a bunch. Phillies with 5 numbers and 2 names, all HOFers though. 4 were done in advance of their enshrinement, 36 Robin Roberts, 1 Richie Ashburn, 32 Steve Carlton and 20 Mike Schmidt while 14 Jim Bunning was not. Also when Bunning�s was retired it gave the Phillies the opportunity to honor Philly legends before there were numbers. So Grover Alexander and Chuck Klein have their names on the wall. With Waner�s 11 being retired the Pirates count is 9 numbers. All but two honor HOFers. Both honor popular managers who passed on before hand, 1 Billy Meyer and 40 Danny Murtaugh. The others, 33 Honus Wagner, that was his number as a long time Pirate coach, 20 Pie Traynor, 21 Roberto Clemente, 8 Willie Stargell, 4 Ralph Kiner, and 9 Bill Mazeroski. All but Mazeroski, and Stargell were retired after their inductions. The Rangers have just two, 34 for Nolan Ryan and 26 for Johnny Oates who managed the team to their postseason appearances. As we know the Red Sox are even stricter than just Hall of Famers with their 10 year rule which means just 9 Ted Williams, 4 Joe Cronin, 1 Bobby Doerr, 8 Carl Yastrzemski and 27 Carlton Fisk. The Reds for a lot of years just had 2 retired uniforms, 1 Fred Hutchinson the manager of the 1961 NL Champs who died suddenly in 1964 and 5 for Johnny Bench. Then in 1998 the retired numbers started to balloon. 13 for Davey Concepcion will be the 8th number retired, following 8 Joe Morgan, 18 Ted Kluszewski who was a long time coach after his playing days, 20 Frank Robinson, 24 Tony Perez, and 10 Sparky Anderson. Bench is the only one of the 5 HOFers who the Reds retired the number in advance of their induction into Cooperstown. None for Colorado. The Royals only have 3 retired numbers. One is a bit of a Gil Hodges tribute to 10 Dick Howser who died in 1987. 20 Frank White to one of the most popular players in Royals history and of course 5 George Brett. The Tigers honored 4 Hall of Famers, all years after their inductions with the exception of 6 Al Kaline, as well as a popular player in 23 Willie Horton. The others are 2 Charlie Gehringer, 5 Hank Greenberg and 16 Hal Newhouser. They have also honored the names of HOFers Ty Cobb, Heinie Manush, Hughie Jennings, Sam Crawford, George Kell, Mickey Cochrane and Ernie Harwell. The Twins are also a team that has both honored popular greats and future HOFers, with their 5 retired unis. 3 Harmon Killebrew, 29 Rod Carew and 34 Kirby Puckett being the HOFers with 6 Tony Oliva and 14 Kent Hrbek being the non-HOFers. And finally, the White Sox with 8, also a mix of HOFers and non HOFers. 4 Luke Appling, 2 Nellie Fox, 11 Luis Aparicio, 16 Ted Lyons and 72 Carlton Fisk are in the Hall while 9 Minnie Minoso, 19 Billy Pierce and 3 Harold Baines are not. Looking at the sheer numbers, 157 different men (Jackie Robinson (by the other 29 teams), Ryan (3 times), Reggie, Carew, Fisk, Fingers, Frank Robinson, Aaron, and Stengel are the only multiple honorees) have been honored in this fashion, either with a number or a name alongside the other retired numbers. Out of that 157 112 are in either the regular HOF or Ford C. Frick winning broadcasters, which leaves 45 who are not in one way or another honored in Cooperstown, of that group. 15 are either memorialized after their passing or the recipients of a tribute before their passing (I�m leaving Roberto Clemente, Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig out of this category, as their numbers should be retired by their respective teams anyway despite the circumstances surrounding their number retirements) Which leaves 30 numbers for either long time owners (Autry and Busch), a tribute to fans in Cleveland and a tribute to long time franchise favorites even if they fell short (or way short) of Cooperstown.

I think Rizzuto's number was also retired simply because Steinbrenner wanted to do what Cooperstown was not doing. 3, 4, 5, 7, both 8s, 10 (this I'll give them though), 16, 37 Those are the Yankee numbers that meet Bret's criteria. As I said 1, 9, 44 were primarily ego-f**ks to keep the players that they were honoring "happy" and part of the Yankee family for the rest of their days. 15, 23, 32, 49. As I said Howard was more paying tribute to a long-time employee of the team, Thurm was honoring a great player cut down, Mattingly, despite lacking the WS rings and the HOF status is a freaking GOD in this town, and Guidry, like Paul O'Neill now, was one of those "When are they retiring his number?" guys that sports radio and internet message boards would be filled with. I think an original plan was to retire 30 as well the same day as 49 right around the time Willie Randolph finally called it a career, but something happened on Gator's end that he had to drop out. Still odd that they never followed up (assuming it was true) on retiring 30 while Randolph was still there.

Frayed Knot wrote: btw, the Yanx have cheapened the "honor" IMO by over-doing it for good but not great, or for short-term great players: Guidry, Howard, Martin, Nettles; as well as for those who were non-Yanx longer than they were ever pin-stripers: Jackson, Maris, Winfield, etc. Nettles wasn't, it was only retired for Maris and Winfield's 31 has not been retired. Howard at least was a "pioneer" for the Yanks and a longtime employee as a coach for the Yanks who died suddenly. Martin, Reggie and Maris were probably all done in a way to keep them "in the Yankee family" Hey JD, where is that column you wrote on the Yanks retiring Guidry's number? Its because of the bloating that Yankee fans have come to want Paul O'Neil's number to be retired as well.

Okay, he may be a fictional big shot, but the star of the short lived fantasy show Viking Quest. current star of NBC's Five Towns and known for countless of bit parts through the years, Johnny "Drama" Chase (of HBO's Entourage played by real life Met Loving Big Shot Kevin Dillon) was seen at a sports memorabilia auction sporting a 1986 Len Dykstra jersey.

Careful there BretSalaDocRa, Greg does have a soft spot for Keith and his Metness From April of 2007: ] The team will also honor its 1967 and 1982 World Championship teams in recognition of their 40th and 25th anniversaries, respectively, with such standouts as Lou Brock, Bob Gibson, Whitey Herzog, Keith Hernandez and Bruce Sutter scheduled to attend. Which of those Cards is not like the other? Right. There's a Cardinal in there who became a Met on June 15, 1983 and we're not giving him back. I know it's just for an evening, for festivities' sake, for milestone purposes (and who wallows in a good milestone anniversary more than me?). I know we're not swapping him out retroactively for Neil Allen and Rick Ownbey. I know The Baseball Encyclopedia doesn't come with disappearing ink for everything he accomplished once his paychecks weren't signed in Bud. But no sir, I don't like it. I don't like that Keith would forgive the Cardinals when a measly quarter-century has yet to pass. I don't like the way Keith yammers on a little too fondly about his Cardinal days during Mets telecasts. I'm a little worn by his yammering on about his Met days during Mets telecasts, actually, because I could use a touch more yammer about these Met days during Mets telecasts, no matter what kind of hammer Atlee Hammaker dropped on him for strike three when the world was young, but that's another story. Keith the Cardinal was outstanding. Keith the Met remains iconic. Keith the Cardinal won a World Series. Keith the Met won the World Series. Keith was a Most Valuable Cardinal. Keith was The Indispensable Met. Keith was their star. Keith was our Captain. If Keith were entering the Hall of Fame (if only petitioning made it so), then which cap do you think he'd be wearing? Which cap do you think he should be wearing? Keith is Ours as few have been even if we keep issuing 17 to every Dae-Sung and Lima that comes down the pike (pending massively wonderful revelations to the contrary, David Newhan ain't worthy either). The Redbirds renounced their Keith rights when Ratzog discarded him not eight months beyond that '82 championship they're suddenly intent on marking. St. Louis turned on Mex. Mex turned on New York and we were totally plugged into Mex. For all his Keithfoolery on the air, it doesn't take much to close one's eyes and picture in his prime the Second-Greatest Met of the First Forty Years � fielding, hitting, leading...always leading. Leading us in '84 and '85 and '86 as he targeted the gray at Shea and replaced it with sunny bursts of blue and orange. Those colors, like Keith, were Just For Mets. Keith Hernandez invited back by the Cardinals? On one of his myriad days off from the booth, I wouldn't blink because I understand the concept of completism and squaring circles and players honoring their pasts because they are the fans' pasts, too (Ozzie Guillen would scoff at such sentimentality, but when doesn't Ozzie Guillen scoff?). That he's throwing out the first ball for our Home Opener makes me feel somewhat less queasy, but trotting out Keith Hernandez as their own on the night they raise their flag in our face after having secured it at the expense of us...pass the Pepto.

Barroid is still stuck on 753, could not do it on the same general site that Aaron launched # 755 and most likely a great majority of his 755 homers so he will attempt to do so at home vs the team Aaron hit the great majority of those 755 homers for. Ken Griffey Jr is at 587, 13 away from 600 now while Sammy Sosa is on 602. Sosa is 4th all time and Junior is 5th Little lower on the list, Frank Thomas has stalled a bit and is at 501, while Alex Rodriguez is knocking on the door after crushing # 498 this afternoon. Both are #s 21 and 22 all time. Unless ARod goes into a massive slump or has a horrific injury he will surpass Jimmie Foxx as the youngest to 500, Foxx was 32 years and 337 days old, ARod is just a week shy of his 32nd birthday. Uninteresting to note is that Derek Jeter is just 10 homers shy of 200 for his career. Oh but I guess those 190 were all clutch and ARod's 498 were all stat padding Jim Thome 488, Manny Ramirez 485, and Gary Sheffield 478 should be the next three entrants to the 500 club, if not late this year then defiantly early next. Currently they occupy slots 25, 26 and 27 respectively Carlos Delgado and Mike Piazza are the other current active 400 HR guys, both at 39 (423) and 40 (420) respectively. The next to 400 should be Larry Wayne Jones (61st) at 373, and Andruw is at 361, tied with Joe DiMaggio for 64th all time.

="Gwreck"]It's already retired in Pittsburgh. Greg, who exactly did you have in mind for the Mets to retire? Greg is thinking 24 for Willie Mays, Something inneresting though from the Beaver County Times article ]The Pirates haven't retired a number since putting away Ralph Kiner's No. 4 in 1987. That was a no-brainer and something that should have been done far earlier. Kiner remains arguably the most-popular Pirates player in history as he led the National League in home runs for seven straight seasons from 1946-52 despite playing in Forbes Field, a longball graveyard. Hmmmm. More popular than any of the HOF members of the championship squads of 60, 71 and 79? Oh yeah I know "Donnie No Rings" is very popular here in NYC and gets the loudest ovations at Old Timers Day but thats generally in part because Mattingly has been retired for only 10 seasons and the majority of the other more popular MFY are either dead, their fanbases for whatever reason are not in the ballpark for OTD any more, and certain players since 1996 are yet to show up to Old Timers Day.

Frayed Knot wrote: ="Iubitul"] ... allowing the pictures to say the words for about two minutes, should be required viewing for any broadcasting candidate. This concept is so foreign to announcers these days since most have the idea in their heads that they need to turn prominent games into their signature moment to be preserved for all eternity. After all, how would we and future generations know whether it was an exciting or momentus game without them there to tell us so? Perfect example, Charley Steiner calls the Aaron Boone ALCS clinching homer in the 10th then John Sterling runs into the booth to start his "Ball game over..." schtick, and I guess Steiner was so aggravated that he stepped right on Sterling doing "The Yankees Win" I guess thats part of the reason Sterling does the final innings alone now! HA!

Stealing this from another board, ironcially the poster also stole it from another board: ]Totally stealing this info from another board, but Peter Gammons was on ESPN radio today and remarked that the Red Sox now blame Scott Boras for fucking Craig Hansen's mechanics to high heaven. According to Gammo, Boras keeps his own staff of coaches who advise his clients to keep deliveries that will prolong their career even if it alters the player's ability. Jayson Stark has remarked that the same thing has happened to former stud Mike Pelfrey and that it is a situation that is now permeating throughout the league. If this is true, then wow. I've always supported Boras' negotiation tactics because he always had the interests of his clients at heart, but I don't think he should be tweaking the players or interfering with the team's coaching. Ugh! So the most highly touted Met pitching prospect to make it to the Mets (Kaz of course never made it) since GenK is done in because his agent had him tinker with his delivery? His agent?

G-Fafif wrote: Rookie of the Year voting is not necessarily an indicator of things to come. Not that it's supposed to be anything but an indicator of who was the top rookie in a given year, but it's interesting to see who beat who when and how much you would have lost investing in futures if you based your bets purely on the voting. To further illustrate: Jackie Robinson, Willie Mays, Frank Robinson, Luis Aparicio, Orlando Cepeda, Willie McCovey, Billy Williams, Tom Seaver, Rod Carew, Johnny Bench, Carlton Fisk, Eddie Murray, Cal Ripken. 13 out of 110 winners are currently (or in Ripken's case about to be) inshrineed into Cooperstown. Granted the rest does include guys who are on the outside looking in and could be through various means ala Pete Rose, Thurman Munson, Dick Allen, and Mark McGwire and of course guys who now have "If They Retired Today They Are Getting In" labels like Mike Piazza, and Derek Jeter and you can throw the recently retired Jeff Bagwell into that category. To say nothing on the fact that many of those ROYs actually did have or are currently having some fine big league careers, but the current 12 percent of winners being actual, real future HOFers is quite telling.

="cleonjones11"]Joe Charbonneau...Don Bosch...Sal Bando...Stan Bahnsen...Mike Vail Captain of the Swinging A's, very soild big league careers, why are you lumping him with these other One Hit Wonders (Or in Bosch's case a never was)? Ditto with The Bahnsen Burner whose career lasted into the early 80s as well. I mean a very pedestrian career, but comparing him and Bando to Charbonneau? Bosch?

="Centerfield"] 7/14/07 - Ralph Kiner Night and Ryan's first night at Shea. Not a bad game to make your debut. By my count there were in the house: 4 Hall of Famers Ralph Kiner Tom Seaver Bob Feller Yogi Berra 3 Future Hall of Famers Rickey Henderson Tom Glavine Ken Griffey Jr. Am I missing any? I wish Pedro had been there. Nice CF!

="Nymr83"]Giants have 3 on the road with the Brewers before returning home Monday, does Bonds sit? does he play until he hits one and then sit? theres a million dollar souvenir and tons of publicity and ticket sales here, do the Gianrs make sure it happens at home? The Atlanta Braves actually tried to do that with Hank Aaron at the start of the 1974 season. With Aaron just 1 short of Babe Ruth's record, the Braves wanted to sit Aaron out of the opening weekend in Cincy and to tie and break the record in Atlanta. Bowie Khun sensed the funny business and forced the Braves to play Aaron in Cincy. He ties the record there and of course on April 8th in Atlanta vs the Dodgers, well you know the rest

G-Fafif wrote: Milwaukee, eh? Not a long hike for Commissioner Selig. Also the same neighboorhood that 755 landed as well where many of the 755 were hit.

Nymr83 wrote: that is indeed scary, especially since the government holds the individual, not the tax-preparer, responsible for mistakes. Don't worry, I only make mistakes doing quick, off the cuff internet posts!