Gwreck

Edgy MD wrote: McNeil is not only the oldest and operating without a contract beyond 2026, he also doesn't really have a clear position going forward. I doubt that's an issue. Take 2019 for an example: McNeil did not lead the team in innings at any of his defensive positions, but was still fourth on the team in plate appearances. And that was before the DH slot.

Frayed Knot wrote: Diaz's NYM (to-date) career hardly needs rehashing It probably needs a little more as we can't overlook the truly awful 2019 season Diaz had, on an 86 win team that ended 3 games out of the playoffs. There were of course a lot of flaws on that team, etc., etc. but it's not an overstatement to point out that if Diaz was merely “ok” that year it could have been the difference. Then there were 2 good seasons and a third that was of course incredibly good. And as for the Cano money? As it was the pre-Cohen days, that money could have instead have been much better used to retain Zach Wheeler, who of course wanted to remain with the Mets but wasn't given a competitive contract offer. Also, since Cano keeps coming up, I am compelled to point out again that the Mets actually got more WAR from Trevor Williams than they did from Cano. Again, the point is not that the Kelenic trade was good (it was not) or the Crow-Armstrong trade was good, but the absolute certainty that one was worse than the other is to my eyes unsupported.

Edgy MD wrote: I tend to think taking on Canó's bad contract was the price of taking on Diaz' benevolent one. At least that's the way the Mets front office were looking at it as they chose to swallow that pill. Doesn't necessarily make it wise, of course, but that's probably a big part of the thinking. The problem in the trade was that they both took Cano's contract and gave up the prospect. One of the other should have been good enough.

Frayed Knot wrote: Completely different situations though. Kelenic was dealt for a mid-20s top notch closer with four years of team control, plus the gamble on how much Cano had left (good while he was available before ultimately washing out). Even if the Baez trade was worse (TBD), it shouldn't go overlooked here how colossally stupid it was to trade for Cano, a 35-year old on the downside of his career coming off a PED suspension with an albatross contract. And this was before the Mets had a billionaire owner! Calling it a “gamble” on Cano is far too charitable. Also calling Cano “good” is not really accurate either. He had a middling 2019, and a good 2020 (all 49 games of it), and then was so bad/a clubhouse cancer that they had to release him with almost 3 years left on the contract. As for Baez, when he was acquired, the Mets were up 5 games in the division, and Lindor was hurt (he didn't return until August 24 that year).. Baez played very well down the stretch, and the Mets also got Trevor Williams who was a not insignificant part of the 2022 team. It may well have still been a dumb trade but it's far from clear if it really was that bad.

I'm absolutely, positively, shocked to find this out. David Wells is a jackass? Who could have known?

Frayed Knot wrote: I don't want a set of rigid rules governing number retirement. But I'd like there to be some sort of guidelines and mine would look something like this: 1) a career NYM or at least a solid majority of his career as one 2) HoF inductee or at least pretty darn close to it 3) Was a member/citizen of good standing while a NYM … - Mookie, HoJo, Krane, Beltran, Cleon, etc.: Please stop You might need to recheck your criteria on Beltran. Take another look at those numbers: #1: a little short, but he ranks much higher than you think as a Met. Better Mets career than Piazza, certainly. #2: yes #3: yes I'm not sure I'd retire Beltran's number either but he's a very close call.

Retiring so many numbers dilutes the significance. The Mets' Hall of Fame is for Doc and Darryl and Koosman. Retired numbers should be strictly limited to individuals who make the Baseball Hall of Fame as a Met. You could maybe make an exception for a beloved player who played an entire career with the team.

For Doc and Darryl, next year. (Gwreck take: this is not needed).

Don't forget the DUI. Class guy all around

First walk-off balk since DJ Carrasco in 2011? Third base umpire John Tumpane is the same guy who called 3 balks in one inning against the Marlins last September.

This sucks.

=bmfc1 post_id=129786 time=1687715586 user_id=73] The starting pitching isn't going to improve as Peterson is starting on Tuesday. He was awful for the Mets, he's been awful for the Syracuse Mets but the timing works for him to start. Timing over quality.

I got a 0.02% one today and feeling pretty proud, notgonnalie.

This is my new favorite website (after the CPF). https://www.immaculategrid.com/https://www.immaculategrid.com/

Edgy MD wrote: Well, your point seemed to say that there wasn't any trade market. Beyond that, "robust" is an ambiguous and relative term. I think, if the Mets want to deal, precedent suggests that they can find a partner for many or most of them. Frequently, those deals may yield little besides clearing a roster spot for another player, but if that's the way forward they want to take, it's certainly a possible one. I think we may be talking past each other. I think we agree that of course they “could” make a deal for one of those players, but it's not likely to be a good deal, and it's also unclear what better alternative exists if a Marte/Canha/Escobar/Vogelbach gets removed from the team.

I think the overall point holds. There can't be a robust trade market for the players on that list except Robertson. As tonight showed, the issue isn't the offense. It's the 4.94 ERA from their starting pitchers (25th in MLB).

Johnny Lunchbucket wrote: =Gwreck post_id=129154 time=1687179289 user_id=56] What are you tearing down? Verlander, Scherzer, and Senga aren't going anywhere. Neither are Nimmo, Lindor, or Alonso. I'm in favor of getting rid of Carrasco and Megill but who do you use in their stead? You could probably trade Baty or Alvarez but do you really want to do that? Robertson, Ottavino, Escobar, Pham, Vogelbach, Narvaez, Canha, Marte

What are you tearing down? Verlander, Scherzer, and Senga aren't going anywhere. Neither are Nimmo, Lindor, or Alonso. I'm in favor of getting rid of Carrasco and Megill but who do you use in their stead? You could probably trade Baty or Alvarez but do you really want to do that?

It's all about the pitching. Yes, several offensive players are underperforming but without competent pitching it's not getting better. There have been 7 losses alone this month during which the Mets scored 4 runs or more. To fix this season: they need 3 competent starting pitchers. They currently have one (Senga). If Verlander and Scherzer can pitch somewhere close to what they're capable of the season might be salvegable. I'm fully in favor of releasing Carlos Carrasco. Maybe Lucchesi is worth another try?

They had Vientos as well. Even if Vogelbach wasn't available, Buck made the wrong call.

Sounds like they can't do that. Will Sammon of the Athletic reported that Smith's spot counts as one of the maximum 13 pitchers that can be on the active roster.

Top 8, down 1 run, leadoff batter in the 9 hole, rightly reliever with traditional splits and Buck had: -Vientos (as scheduled) -Vogelbach (problematic, but he does still walk a lot, and down 1 run a leadoff walk isn't a bad thing) -Escobar -Marte And instead of any of them, he goes with Guillorme? He's not making this any easier with dumb moves like that.

Not sure I knew that Roger had a kid in the majors and that said offspring was with the Phillies. Hope he has a terrible game.

=TransMonk post_id=126192 time=1684708954 user_id=71] Not a fan of black jersey Sunday nights. I'll be glad to see the camo go, too.

Odd call to pull Scherzer at 86 pitches on doubleheader day. Also odd to go Raley for only 9 pitches. Very aggressive baserunning all around. Not just on Sanchez getting thrown out at the plate, and McNeil out (after replay) stretching for a double, but also Pete going first to third on a single to short center. I do like the aggressiveness, but combined with Marte getting picked off first, 3 outs on the basepaths is a lot.