Gwreck

Edgy MD wrote: I certainly agree (and have said so in this thread) that closers encounter unrealistic expectations. No doubt. I'm willing to take it a step further and posit that Mets fans and the media that cover the Mets have those unrealistic expectations in large part due to what Rivera has done in the same City for so long.

Edgy MD wrote: Well, we've looked outside the organization for a closer five times since sunsetting Armando in 2003, counting Putz. Spent a lot of money and pleased nobody. The lack of pleasure is a combination of overpaying for players and comparison to an unrealistic standard across town. Ie. Wagner was a fine player, just not worth the money he was paid. Blows one save in the playoffs, everybody hates him.

Edgy MD wrote: t'll totally put the gay thing to bed. I thought marrying the Playboy model and having kids with her did that already.

Alan Trammell 33.6% Larry Walker 21.6% Fred McGriff 20.7% Dale Murphy 18.6% Mark McGwire 16.9% Don Mattingly 13.2% Sammy Sosa 12.5% Rafael Palmeiro 8.8% Bernie Williams 3.3% Kenny Lofton 3.2% Sandy Alomar Jr. 2.8% Julio Franco 1.1% David Wells 0.9% Steve Finley 0.7% Shawn Green 0.4% Aaron Sele 0.2%

Craig Biggio 68.2% Jack Morris 67.7% Jeff Bagwell 59.6% Mike Piazza 57.8% Tim Raines 52.2% Lee Smith 47.8% Curt Schilling 38.8% Roger Clemens 37.6% Barry Bonds 36.2% Edgar Martinez 35.9%

Ceetar wrote: Woah, someone voted for Bonds and not Clemens? how's that work? Clemens got 8 more votes than Bonds. Of course that makes no sense.

Nobody gets in this year.

Benjamin Grimm wrote: But I suppose my issue with Clemens and Bonds and McGwire is the disgrace they brought to the game, more than the cheating. Not to be unnecessarily argumentative but what's the difference?

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I agree too. Except that I want McGwire, Bonds, and Clemens to never get in. Anyone who has disgraced the game the way that they have should not be enshrined in a Hall of Fame. What's your position on Gaylord Perry?

Vic Sage wrote: I think the Hall is done more damage in the long run by voting in players with impressive but not all-time-great careers like Morris, Lee, McGriff, Mattingly or Murphy Agreed. Since 2001, the HOF has welcomed Kirby Puckett, Bill Mazeroski, Bruce Sutter, Rich Gossage, Jim Rice and Andre Dawson, all of whom are weak to poor choices. No offense fellas, but you're not on the same level. than it is damaged by holding out Clemens and Bonds for a few years. My worry is that with the voters' refusal to elect worthy candidates they become more likely to vote in the fringe/poor candidates, ie. Jack Morris.

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I think that the Wilpons' ascendancy from minority owners to something more is probably the worst event in franchise history. Worse even than the Seaver midnight massacre trade. This is an intriguing theory. I think you might be right, barring some sort of big turnaround in the next 3 years.

1. Jeff Bagwell 2. Craig Biggio 3. Jack Morris 4. Dale Murphy 5. Tim Raines 6. Curt Schilling 7. Lee Smith This would be the ballot of everybody's favorite Mets beat writer working for ESPN. I know he's not very popular around here with some and on this issue, I will agree.

Ceetar wrote: not mutually exclusive. And as has always been the case, the Wilpons getting it together is probably the quickest path to a financial stable Mets organization. There's not a shred of evidence to support that idea, unless by "financially stable" you mean "unable to spend money on free agents." I guess the Mets are stable in their austerity. Nevermind that "the Wilpons getting it together," whatever that actually means, would presumably be basically the same thing as a "financially stable Mets organization." The Mets already gave up on 2013. Would they have done that if the Wilpons had sold at this point a year ago?

Swan Swan H wrote: Good news If your name is Wilpon or Katz? or bad news, depending on your perspective. Every living person who wants the Mets to return to a championship-caliber ballclub?

I didn't. Nice find.

metsguyinmichigan wrote: ...and where the league doesn't even have a team in the nation's second largest city -- in part because owners are allowed to up and move in the middle of the night! The NFL has made good use of LA as leverage to get new stadiums built (ie. "if you don't, we'll move the team to LA").

seawolf17 wrote: I'm really surprised that the Braves would go there. Disgraceful, really

Fman99 wrote: The idea that we're already selling off pieces at the 2013 deadline makes me sick. Quit being a bunch of defeatists. How did selling off pieces in December 2012 make you feel?

Toronto as small market is a total myth. There are 2.6 million people in the city. It is the largest MLB city with only one team.

Edgy MD wrote: I don't know about words like "serious" or "misjudged." I just think Sandy had his ceiling and was willing to take the team's money walk away when another team went higher. What's for us to judge, I think, is whether or not he was right to walk away. I wasn't really interested in relitigating the issue of whether he was right to walk away (I suppose we may not know for a few years). The point is -- and I did choose my words deliberately -- is that the Mets were either not seriously interested in retaining Reyes OR misjudged the market for his services. Their contract negotiation strategy illustrates just that. I said "misjudged" specifically because that is the logical conclusion drawn from assuming that the Mets (truthfully) had an interest in retaining Reyes. As stated above, if Sandy had a ceiling but other team(s) were going above it, it certainly speaks to his not having an accurate understanding of the market.

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Gwreck wrote: Edgy MD wrote: is why Charlie Samuels needed to be thrown in prison. NO team dressed like that deserves to win. Bud Selig, too. Those white caps were the truly horrendous "Stars and Stripes" model that they made everyone wear for Independence Day weekend (among other occasions). You guys know the whole stars-n-stripes hats was a Fred Wilpon Thing. It is tied somehow to the veterans charity he was (is?) trying to get going with Seaver as the spokesman. Goes without saying that Fred Wilpon should be in prison too, charitable work for Veterans notwithstanding

Edgy MD wrote: is why Charlie Samuels needed to be thrown in prison. NO team dressed like that deserves to win. Bud Selig, too. Those white caps were the truly horrendous "Stars and Stripes" model that they made everyone wear for Independence Day weekend (among other occasions).

I suppose it only matters in this context as to whether the Mets were serious about keeping Reyes (to refer back to why this was brought up in the first place). Regardless of the nature of their offer -- whether "formal" or "written" or a "discussion" -- the takeaway is that either 1. Sandy very much misjudged the market for Reyes' services OR 2. The Mets weren't interested in making a serious bid for Reyes' services.

My Dickey memories go back to a spring training 2008 article that Alan Schwarz wrote in the New York Times about Dickey. Dickey was pitching for the Mariners and it struck me as a fascinating story at the time. He would later throw 7 shutout innings against the Mets that June when the Mariners visited. I remember attending Dickey's first home start against the Phillies with KC. Faced Jamie Moyer, "no pitch above 85 MPH or your money back." My recollection is that it was the first of three straight shutouts of the Phillies. I too attended that now-infamous July 3, 2010 game in Washington. My standout memory of R.A. -- aside from his being better than Strasburg that day -- was his post-game quote about facing Strasburg as a batter: how he was happy that he could see the ball, given all the hype. I was fortunate to be there for the first of the 1-hitters, against the Phillies in August 2010. It was then that he had me really hooked. I think I only attended one Dickey start this past year, the pitchers-duel-that-wasn't against CC Sabathia. Still, at a time when the Mets had no shot to contend, Dickey was the one player who kept me interested all year. Those back-to-back one hitters were magical.

Am I missing something? My understanding of the circumstances was that the Mets made no formal offer because once Reyes actually hit the open market, the Mets (astutely) realized that Reyes would be getting a deal that was longer and for more money than they wanted to spend.