Callaway Seeds (split from Who will manage the Mets?)

[Guest 41Forever]

I finally was able to listen to the Meet the Mets podcast from MetsBlog where the three hosts were talking about Callaway. One of them, I think it was Steve Hofstetter, said, "And he'll be wearing No. 36" and rattled off some older Mets like Dean Florence, finishing with something like, "And I don't think the Mets have ever had someone really good wearing that number before."

I'm yelling "Jerry Koosman! He's in the team's Hall of Fame, for goodness sake! C'mon guys!" but since I was in the car and they recorded it last month, this had no discernible effect other than me spitting up a little of the morning Monster.

A couple minutes later, Cerone or Brender said, "I looked it up, and Jerry Koosman wore that number."

Hopefully they had a copy of the essential "Mets By the Numbers" -- both editions -- so they don't make such a mistake again.

Dean Florence?

[Vic Sage]

how do you present yourself to the public as having some expertise on the Mets (and if you're blogging about them, you're presenting yourself as an authority on them), and NOT know #36? Do they not know #41, too? #internetdeathofjournalism #opinionslikea_holes

[Ceetar]

because numbers aren't really important?

[Benjamin Grimm]

Well, they're not really, but someone who doesn't think they're important shouldn't talk about them like they're an expert.

[Vic Sage]

Ceetar wrote: because numbers aren't really important?

Then why do they get retired? Why are they on the HOF plaques? enshrined in museums? Why are they painted on a team's scoreboard or OF wall? Why are they so iconic, they can be used as the title of a movie?
A player's number can become an iconic symbol of the game and take on mythic proportions. 42 anybody? anybody? Buehler?

[Edgy MD]

Numbers identify a player. They are part of the brand that signifies him. For many players, they are as intimately as much a part of the story as the guy's name.

They don't know the number NOT because it isn't important to them (they were talking about numbers!), but because they've forgotten or never knew much of the Koosman story.

If they knew Koosman like they knew (say) Piazza or Leiter, they'd know his number.

[Guest 41Forever]

Ceetar wrote: because numbers aren't really important?

Blasphemy.

[Ceetar]

Leiter was... 22?

I don't think I knew Koosman was 36.

See, his number isn't on the wall, retired, prominent anywhere. So when we talk about Koosman we don't talk about 36. If you'd like to argue, that's fine. I'd say it's on the older fans/historians/team that are neglecting spreading his story over browbeating us with Seaver over and over again.

for some players it's part of the brand. For others it's just a way to be marked in the scorecard.

[G-Fafif]

It's fine to not care about who wore 36 if numbers don't count for you. Those who don't know the one outstanding Met to wear 36, however, probably shouldn't bring up who previously wore 36 on a podcast in the first place. Callaway is such a blank slate to date that I guess there's only so much to bring up.

BTW, it was Don Florence, not Dean. He went 3-0 and was let go, which still perplexes me.

[Ceetar]

G-Fafif wrote: It's fine to not care about who wore 36 if numbers don't count for you. Those who don't know the one outstanding Met to wear 36, however, probably shouldn't bring up who previously wore 36 on a podcast in the first place.

well yeah, agreed on that.

also maybe look it up first?

[G-Fafif]

Ceetar wrote: G-Fafif wrote: It's fine to not care about who wore 36 if numbers don't count for you. Those who don't know the one outstanding Met to wear 36, however, probably shouldn't bring up who previously wore 36 on a podcast in the first place. well yeah, agreed on that. also maybe look it up first?

Preparation rocks!

[seawolf17]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: "...But not the kind of strikes that wind up on table 14 of the Acela Club"

"Because we don't really have money to replace windows."

[batmagadanleadoff]

I figuratively if not literally, pop a blood vessel whenever I hear talk of Gary Carter deserving to have his Mets # retired, because whatever Carter did for the Mets, Koosman did 10 times over. 20 times over! But for every time I hear someone advocating for retiring Kooz's #, I probably hear it 100 times for Carter.

[Guest cooby]

I'm with you. Jerry was terrific too!

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Preaching to the choir here but numbers needn't be retired to remembered, if you're the kind of fan that remembers those kind of things. And I agree they aren't in and of themselves important which speaks to the whole conceit of knowing them and celebrating them: It's how the mind of a fan works. For many guys the number is *all* people remember of them like me with Roy Staiger. I knew he was an infielder, and I knew wore No. 2. Did he bat right, left or both? No clue. So the number for me became an avenue to greater understanding.

[G-Fafif]

Preaching to the choir here but numbers needn't be retired to remembered, if you're the kind of fan that remembers those kind of things. And I agree they aren't in and of themselves important which speaks to the whole conceit of knowing them and celebrating them: It's how the mind of a fan works.

If Callaway is somewhat successful (winning records, limited embarrassment on his watch), he automatically becomes the second-most significant 36 in franchise history. The gap from Koosman to whichever 36 you'd currently rank behind him -- Tracy Stallard, Ed Lynch, Greg McMichael -- has to be the largest within the realm of widely circulated Met numbers.

I've enjoyed every time a 36 has been issued to an inevitable journeyman that the tendency among announcers and fans (who care about such things) is to instinctively remember and mention/tweet Jerry Koosman's name. In its own way, it's as valuable to his legacy as 36 being up in the rafters.

[Guest d'Kong76]

#36 is retired in my mind. #8? No, and not #17 either.

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: For many guys the number is *all* people remember of them like me with Roy Staiger. I knew he was an infielder, and I knew wore No. 2. Did he bat right, left or both? No clue. So the number for me became an avenue to greater understanding.

I better remember his acting career. He was great in Jaws.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I know. As soon as I saw that Mickey was getting number 36, the first thought that came to my mind was "Jerry Koosman".

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I think Marty Noble said 36 was always given to a "nice guys" He is a big fan of Kooz and Ed Lynch.

Did I ever show you guys my Ed Lynch bio?

http://sabr.org/bioproj/person/48fa15f1

[Guest cooby]

I must remember to explore this website

[bmfc1]

Per this article, https://nypost.com/2018/01/30/mets-being-closer-less-is-more-than-a-tactic-its-an-attitude/
Mickey sent this book to his staff. https://www.amazon.com/Legacy-James-Kerr-ebook/dp/B00OGUP7RQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1517413586&sr=8-1&keywords=legacy+book
Has anyone read it?

[Benjamin Grimm]

If we weren't so terrible at doing book clubs here, this one would be an interesting choice.

[bmfc1]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: If we weren't so terrible at doing book clubs here, this one would be an interesting choice.

For $1.66, I'm in.