FAKE NEWS - Payroll 2018

[ashie62]

Jeff Wilpon apparently had a conference call with beat writers and went extensively into the payroll. Says there is a plan. I'm not going to keep giving them free communications advice. Nice to see him doing that.

Here it is. Sounds like he is kinda throwing Dabid under the bus.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mets-coo-defends-payroll-being-top-five-in-payroll-hasnt-won-us-a-world-series/

[Zvon]

Ashie62 wrote: Here it is. Sounds like he is kinda throwing Dabid under the bus. https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mets-coo-defends-payroll-being-top-five-in-payroll-hasnt-won-us-a-world-series/

OMG! I'm gonna end never going to a Mets game again!!! Jeffy is just too damn young!
Well, I'll watch em on MLB.TV.
I'll throw 'em that morsel.

[Centerfield]

It makes me sick.

Mets fans have to separate the team they love from the crooks that own it.

[Zvon]

Centerfield wrote: It makes me sick. Mets fans have to separate the team they love from the crooks that own it.

I wish I could. I want to go out and watch em play. But I can't.....

1jOk8dk-qaU


OE: Also, living way down here makes my stand a little easier. If I lived up in NYC, or even around it, I wouldn't be able to stay away, pretty sure. But instead of going to 15 or so games a season, I'd cut that down to 3 or 4.

[Centerfield]

Sandy Alderson says we should be looking at alternative facts.

https://www.mlb.com/news/mets-owner-jeff-wilpon-discusses-2018-payroll/c-265182534

"You've just got to take another look at the facts from a slightly different perspective," Alderson said. "We've already spent more money than most teams this season. We've had one of the rare big, big contracts in the last couple of seasons. No, we're not running out and signing everybody. But at the same time, in instances, we've stepped up and signed players and made moves in some cases where others haven't. We'll continue to consider those types of things in the future."

You have to figure that Sandy is bright enough to know he is talking bullshit here.

[Zvon]

Centerfield wrote: Sandy Alderson says we should be looking at alternative facts. https://www.mlb.com/news/mets-owner-jeff-wilpon-discusses-2018-payroll/c-265182534 "You've just got to take another look at the facts from a slightly different perspective," Alderson said. "We've already spent more money than most teams this season. We've had one of the rare big, big contracts in the last couple of seasons. No, we're not running out and signing everybody. But at the same time, in instances, we've stepped up and signed players and made moves in some cases where others haven't. We'll continue to consider those types of things in the future." You have to figure that Sandy is bright enough to know he is talking bullshit here.

OH, he does. He is a master of soothing smooth talk. I love the guy tho. We are very fortunate he's our GM. Imagine where we'd be with a GM of lesser intelligence. And IMO Sandy is one of the smartest out there.

[Ceetar]

Zvon wrote: Sandy Alderson says we should be looking at alternative facts. https://www.mlb.com/news/mets-owner-jeff-wilpon-discusses-2018-payroll/c-265182534 "You've just got to take another look at the facts from a slightly different perspective," Alderson said. "We've already spent more money than most teams this season. We've had one of the rare big, big contracts in the last couple of seasons. No, we're not running out and signing everybody. But at the same time, in instances, we've stepped up and signed players and made moves in some cases where others haven't. We'll continue to consider those types of things in the future." You have to figure that Sandy is bright enough to know he is talking bullshit here. OH, he does. He is a master of soothing smooth talk. I love the guy tho. We are very fortunate he's our GM. Imagine where we'd be with a GM of lesser intelligence. And IMO Sandy is one of the smartest out there.

it's factually very accurate.

[Vic Sage]

here are some actual facts:

[u:2b8ha3nb]opening day payrolls[/u:2b8ha3nb]
2011 (pre-Madoff): 120m (7th)
2012: 93.3m (14th)
2013: 73.4m (23rd)
2014: 89m (22nd)
2015: 101.4m (21st)
2016: 99.6m (19th)
2017: 155m (12th)

During these years, we were often outspent by the Twins and Padres, while the Yankees and Dodgers led the league with payrolls in the 200-270m range.

What's true is that the Mets were damaged by Madoff and the debt that now hangs over this franchise like a sword of Damocles prevents us from spending in proportion to our revenue and market size, keeping us in the Minny/SD budget range. So we're competing with 1 hand tied behind our backs, unable to take advantage of our market size to give us a competitive edge. Now every move has to be the right one, every guy we bring up has to be a stud, or we can't win. no margin for error.

But technically, Sandy was correct when he said that "we've already spent more than most teams this season," if he means by that the Mets payroll last year was 12th (better than 18 other teams!). Of course that was the first time that was true over the past 5 years, while the other NY team (and the LA team) were spending more than double the Mets payroll in the same size media markets. But if he is referring to the upcoming season, we have no idea what he'll have spent by the time the season begins; so far, its Bruce and Swarzak, while almost none of the major free agents have been signed. so again, his accuracy is hanging on a technicality of timing. We'll see where we end up by opening day. If we've signed Darvish, Cain and Moustakas, i'll be impressed. If we sign Lynn and Frazier, at least we'll have some leeway. If its Colon and Nunez, the rotation will have to come back awfully strong, along with Conforto, and Rosario will have to take a big step forward. If its Reyes and a bucket of balls, we're fucked.

[Zvon]

Ceetar wrote: Sandy Alderson says we should be looking at alternative facts. https://www.mlb.com/news/mets-owner-jeff-wilpon-discusses-2018-payroll/c-265182534 "You've just got to take another look at the facts from a slightly different perspective," Alderson said. "We've already spent more money than most teams this season. We've had one of the rare big, big contracts in the last couple of seasons. No, we're not running out and signing everybody. But at the same time, in instances, we've stepped up and signed players and made moves in some cases where others haven't. We'll continue to consider those types of things in the future." You have to figure that Sandy is bright enough to know he is talking bullshit here. OH, he does. He is a master of soothing smooth talk. I love the guy tho. We are very fortunate he's our GM. Imagine where we'd be with a GM of lesser intelligence. And IMO Sandy is one of the smartest out there. it's factually very accurate.

Of course it is. Sandy would never be caught lying. < No joke or sarcasm there.

[Centerfield]

here are some actual facts: opening day payrolls 2011 (pre-Madoff): 120m (7th) 2012: 93.3m (14th) 2013: 73.4m (23rd) 2014: 89m (22nd) 2015: 101.4m (21st) 2016: 99.6m (19th) 2017: 155m (12th) During these years, we were often outspent by the Twins and Padres, while the Yankees and Dodgers led the league with payrolls in the 200-270m range. What's true is that the Mets were damaged by Madoff and the debt that now hangs over this franchise like a sword of Damocles prevents us from spending in proportion to our revenue and market size, keeping us in the Minny/SD budget range. So we're competing with 1 hand tied behind our backs, unable to take advantage of our market size to give us a competitive edge. Now every move has to be the right one, every guy we bring up has to be a stud, or we can't win. no margin for error. But technically, Sandy was correct when he said that "we've already spent more than most teams this season," if he means by that the Mets payroll last year was 12th (better than 18 other teams!). Of course that was the first time that was true over the past 5 years, while the other NY team (and the LA team) were spending more than double the Mets payroll in the same size media markets. But if he is referring to the upcoming season, we have no idea what he'll have spent by the time the season begins; so far, its Bruce and Swarzak, while almost none of the major free agents have been signed. so again, his accuracy is hanging on a technicality of timing. We'll see where we end up by opening day. If we've signed Darvish, Cain and Moustakas, i'll be impressed. If we sign Lynn and Frazier, at least we'll have some leeway. If its Colon and Nunez, the rotation will have to come back awfully strong, along with Conforto, and Rosario will have to take a big step forward. If its Reyes and a bucket of balls, we're fucked.

Yup.

And though every statement that Alderson makes is fact, the overall inference, (Hey, we are spending) is false.

[Ceetar]

It's not though. They did in fact commit more money near the top last offseason, and have again this offseason, though this offseason doesn't actually count. But if they did indeed sign a free agent infielder and especially if they also get another starter, then it'll remain true.

[Edgy MD]

Yeah, the Mets added the third most last off-season and the fifth-most so far this off-season. According to spotrac, anyhow.

There's plenty of reason to be encouraged by those numbers, if you're of a mind to. But there's plenty of reason to see it in such context as (1) hey, they started from an abnormally low baseline a few years back, (2) they had something of a selloff in the interim (though mostly of players in the last year of their contracts), and (3) that chart doesn't include salary added through trades, such as the Yankees took on when adding Stanton.

I'd certainly say what Sandy said if I was in his loafers.

[Centerfield]

I would too. But then I'd go home and realize that smart people aren't buying my bullshit.

At the end of the day, everyone knows the Mets don't spend enough. There is no way to spin it or to cover it up, or to soften the blow. You either spend or you don't. The Wilpons will get a reprieve when, and only when, they spend like a big market team.

The problem is really self-inflicted. With no leaks or rumblings coming from the Mets, the trend is very encouraging. Low payroll during the rebuilding years, steady increase as the team gets competitive, and you figure, high-priced free agents will be added during the window of contention. Even during this offseason, the Mets could plausibly be waiting out the market for Darvish and JD Martinez, with money to spend at their disposal.

It's the reports that the 2017 payroll was over budget, and the rumblings that payroll is getting slashed in 2018 that have fans in an uproar. You wonder why that information leaked. Did the Wilpons think that doing so would soften the blow when we ultimately ended up not spending? Or was it to test the waters, and now they're saying "Holy shit, we better spend". I have no idea.

Jeff Wilpon could have put this whole thing to rest. "Look, we've heard the reports about cutting the payroll and we have no idea where these guys are getting their info. The payroll is fluid. If we see a deal, we'll take it, but we are not going to bid against ourselves. We know our payroll has been low for NY. But it's on the rise, and we do not expect payroll to restrict our ability to improve this team and field a championship contender. I'm also here to put to bed the rumors that we are cash strapped or in debt because of Madoff. We have the ability to fund a big market payroll. Once we see the right fits, we see no reason we can't get back there."

Now the fans are confident.

Instead, his words basically confirmed what we have long suspected. That the Mets would like to fund a top tier payroll, but are unable to do so.

Did he really pull the WFAN caller logic of "Payroll doesn't guarantee championships"? Come on. He must think we are idiots.

[Ceetar]

Centerfield wrote: Jeff Wilpon could have put this whole thing to rest. "Look, we've heard the reports about cutting the payroll and we have no idea where these guys are getting their info. The payroll is fluid. If we see a deal, we'll take it, but we are not going to bid against ourselves. We know our payroll has been low for NY. But it's on the rise, and we do not expect payroll to restrict our ability to improve this team and field a championship contender. I'm also here to put to bed the rumors that we are cash strapped or in debt because of Madoff. We have the ability to fund a big market payroll. Once we see the right fits, we see no reason we can't get back there."

He did say most of that. And a lot of the reports about their payroll have already been proven false. It just so happens it's an easy narrative to hit when someone gives you an anonymous quote that kinda fits.

YOu know what would've shut up the fans? if they'd won last year. Even if they'd won 84 games. Instead they executed a pivot, dumped some guys, grabbed some relievers, and shut some guys down earlier than they might've. They lost a lot more games that way. But it gave them some reliever depth, and a slightly higher draft pick. The payroll HAS been steadily increasing most years and they have acquired players every year lately. You could certainly argue for them doing more, spending more, making bigger gambles each year, but I don't see any justification that they're doing the bare minimum by far.

[Centerfield]

Ceetar wrote: YOu know what would've shut up the fans? if they'd won last year. Even if they'd won 84 games.

Maybe dumb fans. Smart ones can separate out results and preparation.

Good results can happen to anyone. Good luck can strike at any time. Simply because someone or something had a good result does not mean that the person was well prepared.

On the other hand, well-prepared folks are not guaranteed success. Just as there is good luck, there is bad luck.

Individual results should not affect anyone's judgment in determining how to best prepare for the next event. Whether you fail or succeed, going forward, all participants should take actions to best maximize their chance of success at the next opportunity. Over time, the well-prepared folks, the ones who maximize their chances of success, will see sustained results over the one-off, random success of the lucky ones. This is why mothers do not implore their children to buy lottery tickets.

Even if the Mets had won the World Series in 2017, I would be advocating for them to field the best possible team in 2018. And that means spending money.

[Guest 41Forever]

Even if the Mets had won the World Series in 2017, I would be advocating for them to field the best possible team in 2018. And that means spending money.

Let me fix that: And that means spending money wisely.

[Ceetar]

Centerfield wrote: Ceetar wrote: YOu know what would've shut up the fans? if they'd won last year. Even if they'd won 84 games. Maybe dumb fans. Smart ones can separate out results and preparation.

Well, there's been a lot of talk about the Mets 2017 record. Here and on the Internet at large.

[Zvon]

Vic Sage wrote: If its Reyes and a bucket of balls, we're fucked.

I read this last night and cracked up. Just read it again and it might be even funnier.

I think I can hear you actually saying it even though I have no idea what your voice sounds like.

[Vic Sage]

Zvon wrote: Vic Sage wrote: If its Reyes and a bucket of balls, we're fucked. I read this last night and cracked up. Just read it again and it might be even funnier. I think I can hear you actually saying it even though I have no idea what your voice sounds like.

My voice? A shot of Jim Morrison, a jigger of Bob Seger, a dash of Andrew Dice Clay, shaken well (not stirred). And then i wake up and realize I'm Streisand on testosterone.

[Zvon]

Vic Sage wrote: Vic Sage wrote: If its Reyes and a bucket of balls, we're fucked. I read this last night and cracked up. Just read it again and it might be even funnier. I think I can hear you actually saying it even though I have no idea what your voice sounds like. My voice? A shot of Jim Morrison, a jigger of Bob Seger, a dash of Andrew Dice Clay, shaken well (not stirred). And then i wake up and realize I'm Streisand on testosterone.

OMG, I think the world itself is becoming a comedy zone!

*takes off tie, puts on a dickey