2016 Ranking Project

[Frayed Knot]

A little delayed this year, but still time for your 2016 NYM Rankings.
You know the drill; top 30 by whatever method you choose, just be prepared to defend your position.

This past year's cast of characters:

[u:1wuh97j0]Position Players[/u:1wuh97j0] (by most ABs)
GRANDERSON — CABRERA — CESPEDES — WALKER — LONEY
CONFORTO — FLORES — REYES — d’ARNAUD — DE AZA
R. RIVERA — JOHNSON — BRUCE — DUDA — WRIGHT
LAGARES — PLAWECKI — TJ RIVERA — REYNOLDS — CAMPBELL
NIMMO — KELLY — RUGGIANO — CECCHINI

[u:1wuh97j0]Pitchers[/u:1wuh97j0] (by IP)
COLON — SYNDERGAARD — deGROM — MATZ — HARVEY
VERRETT — FAMILIA — REED — ROBLES — LUGO
GSELLMAN — BASTARDO — BLENINS — GOEDDEL — HENDERSON
MONTERO — YNOA — GILMARTIN — SALAS — SMOKER
NIESE — EDGIN

[seawolf17]

We definitely already did this. I remember doing it.

(Didn't we?)

[Frayed Knot]

Not since last year.

[Edgy MD]

30. SYNDERGAARD
29. deGROM
28. CABRERA
27. CESPEDES
26. COLON
25. REED
24. GRANDERSON
23. MATZ
22. WALKER
21. FAMILIA
20. LUGO
19. GSELLMAN
18. BLEVINS
17. JOHNSON
16. LAGARES
15. ROBLES
14. REYES
13. R. RIVERA
12. TJ RIVERA
11. FLORES
10. SALAS
9. KELLY
8. RUGGIANO
7. CONFORTO
6. HENDERSON
5. d'ARNAUD
4. NIMMO
3. REYNOLDS
2. DUDA
1. HARVEY

[Frayed Knot]

Mr. #28 is missing.
Or at least somebody is.

[nymr83]

First draft here trying to see how i feel about it... the dashes are my "tiers" -

a few things that jumped out at me:
-There is no chance I move Noah off #1
-Colon vs deGrom, and where to place Cespedes relative to them, is something i'm pretty unresolved on, but I have my top 4 in some order.
-wow, we had basically 5 full-time players (Syndegaard, Colon, Cespedes, Cabrera, Granderson).
-Harvey - I might replace him with Nimmo or something, he made the first draft just based on innings, but they were BAD innings.
-Reed over Familia. Saved are a useless statistic and Reed was the better pitcher.


RANK Name
-------
30 Noah Syndergaard
-------
29 Bartolo Colon
28 Yoenis Cespedes
27 Jacob deGrom
-------
26 Neil Walker
25 Asdrubal Cabrera
24 Steven Matz
23 Curtis Granderson
22 Michael Conforto
-------
21 Addison Reed
20 Jeurys Familia
19 Wilmer Flores
-------
18 Seth Lugo
17 Robert Gsellman
16 David Wright
15 James Loney
14 Jose Reyes
13 Kelly Johnson
-------
12 Lucas Duda
11 Hansel Robles
10 Jerry Blevins
-------
9 Jay Bruce
8 T.J. Rivera
7 Rene Rivera
6 Travis d'Arnaud
5 Juan Lagares
4 Erik Goeddel
3 Logan Verrett
2 Alejandro De Aza
1 Matt Harvey

[Edgy MD]

Frayed Knot wrote: Mr. #28 is missing. Or at least somebody is.

Fixt.

[Vic Sage]

30. SYNDERGAARD
--------------
29. deGROM
28. COLON
27. CESPEDES
26. CABRERA
25. REED
24. GRANDERSON
---------------
23. MATZ
22. WALKER
21. FAMILIA
20. LUGO
19. GSELLMAN
18. BLEVINS
17. JOHNSON
-------------
16. ROBLES
15. CONFORTO
14. FLORES
13. REYES
12. LAGARES
11. TJ RIVERA
10. R. RIVERA
--------------
09. DUDA
08. HENDERSON
07. HARVEY
06. BRUCE
05. WRIGHT
04. D'AZA
03. VERRETT
02. d'ARNAUD
01. LONEY

I considered Kelly, Nimmo, Ruggiano, Reynolds, Cecchini, Smoker and Salas, but didn't feel they had enough ABs/IPs to warrant listing ahead of guys who played substantially more (though not as well). I left off Plawecki and Bastardo despite having enough ABs/IPs, due to poor performance, and i considered doing the same to D'Aza, d'Arnaud, Verrett and Loney, but ultimately they played too much to ignore. Goeddel pitched enough to consider, but Henderson just edged him out.

[Ceetar]

oof. you guys are awfully high on Colon.

[Vic Sage]

positively stoned

[Ceetar]

Vic Sage wrote: positively stoned

stones in colon are not good.

[seawolf17]

Frayed Knot wrote: Not since last year.

Man, this season went fast, then.

1. Syndergaard
2. Cespedes
3. deGrom
4. Cabrera
5. Walker
6. Granderson
7. Reed
8. Colon
9. Matz
10. Conforto
11. Reyes
12. Flores
13. Familia
14. Loney
15. Verrett
16. d'Arnaud
17. Blevins
18. Lugo
19. Gsellman
20. Robles
21. TJ Rivera
22. Henderson
23. Johnson
24. DeAza
25. R Rivera
26. Bruce
27. Duda
28. Wright
29. Lagares
30. Salas

I hate to leave Harvey off too, but at the same time, he was mostly terrible.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

see revision on page 3

[crossout:fr8z9kml]As I see it, there are 34 rankable guys for 30 slots, but a lot of room for moving within that last 16-to-(-3) chunk especially. Just a big clump of mediocre but moderately meaningful guys.

30. Cespedes
29. Syndergaard
28. Cabrera
27. Granderson
26. deGrom
25. Colon
*
24. Walker
23. Reed
22. Matz
21. Familia
*
20. Flores
19. Reyes
18. Robles
17. Blevins
*
16. Conforto
15. Gsellman
14. Lugo
13. Loney
12. dArnaud
11. Harvey
10. Duda
9. Wright
8. Lagares
7. Bruce
6. TJ Rivera
5. Johnson
4. DeAza
3. Kelly
2. Henderson
1. Reynolds
0. Salas
-1. Nimmo
-2. RRivera
-3. Smoker
*
-4. Ynoa
-5. Goeddel
-6. Bastardo
-7. Plawecki
-8. Edgin
-9. Gilmartin
-10. Ruggiano
-11. Campbell
-12. Monetro
-13. Niese[/crossout:fr8z9kml]

Edited January 5, 2017 by Guest

[Frayed Knot]

I haven't looked at the pitchers yet, but my thinking on positions players thus far is ...

CESPEDES - the most dynamic even if not the most consistent
CABRERA - when the 2nd best offensive player on the team is also the SS he’s going to be near the top of the list
GRANDERSON - once again another slow start followed by a bigger finish, but his atrocious RiSP hitting keeps him out of the top echelon
WALKER - a power-hitting, switch-hitting, middle-infielder … he led the team in hyphens
REYES - just what the team needed when it needed him
FLORES - if only he’d quit getting injured right when regular playing time is staring him in the face
LONEY - was the perfect fill-in and, for a while anyway, gave more than we could have expected
JOHNSON - a replay of 2015, not a great player but a useful fill-in who seems to get a bunch of timely hits
CONFORTO - was on the verge of stardom in April, then faced Bumgarner on May 1st and hasn’t been the same since
R. RIVERA - that his defensive edge gave him, the spare part, playing time down the stretch over two touted prospects says something although only partly about himself
d’ARNAUD - worst run creator on the team … except of course for all the other catchers
TJ RIVERA - not sure he’ll ever be a regular, but he at least worked his way into the conversation
DUDA - wound up with too few ABs to make much of a contribution
BRUCE - wound up with too few hits to make much of a contribution
DE AZA - turned useful in the 2nd half, now if only that 1st half weren’t so god-swful
WRIGHT - contributed walks & HRs while he was in there … which is something even if not much
REYNOLDS - v - NIMMO - Reynolds wins this battle for 11 XBHs vs 2 and for positional value

out of the running: LAGARES, CAMPBELL, PLAWECKI, KELLY, RUGGIANO, CECCHINI

[Frayed Knot]

30 - SYNDERGAARD
29 - CESPEDES
28 - CABRERA
27 - COLON
26 - deGROM
25 - GRANDERSON
24 - WALKER
23 - REED
22 - FAMILIA
21 - MATZ
20 - REYES
19 - FLORES
18 - LONEY
17 - LUGO
16 - GSELLMAN
15 - CONFORTO
14 - JOHNSON
13 - ROBLES
12 - R. RIVERA
11 - d'ARNAUD
10 - BLEVINS
9 - HARVEY
8 - T. J. RIVERA
7 - DUDA
6 - BRUCE
5 - HENDERSON
4 - VERRETT
3 - GOEDDEL
2 - DE AZA
1 - WRIGHT

[nymr83]

FK - Wright gets a 1? I think you have him mis-ranked below our other less-successful part-time hitters
Wright - 164 PA - 110 OPS+
Duda - 172 PA - 89 OPS+
Bruce - 184 PA - 82 OPS+
TJ Rivera - 113 PA - 117 OPS+ - you have him all the way up at 16 - he needs to move up my next rankings, but not 15 spots higher than David!

[Frayed Knot]

Yeah, I have to rethink a few things. I wanted to get a list together and put it up there but may have rushed things a bit.

The part-timers are always the toughest call and we as a group are all over the map with some of them.

- Conforto is a high as 9th place and as low and 24th
- Gsellman is 12th to 22nd (although that 22 is the PotY results which tend to vary from opinion votes)
- Johnson: 14th to 26th
- Loney: 13th best on one ballot but also dead last in one and off the board entirely in another
- d'Arnaud: anywhere between middle of the pack down to 29th
- Rene Rivera is off the board in one case
- Lagares is off the board in several cases and middle of the pack in others
- Wright is not on a couple lists yet as high as 15th
- ditto Verrett
- and we have a couple of Ty Kelly, Ruggiano, and Salas votes that are considerably higher than the pack

[Edgy MD]

Yeah, I don't know how he fell off of my list. He must be the original player missing from my set.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Here's my list. I had a hard time organizing the bottom half of the list.

[list:zwcxuu2a]Noah Syndergaard
Yoenis Cespedes
Asdrubal Cabrera
Curtis Granderson
Neil Walker
Bartolo Colon
Jacob deGrom
Steven Matz
Wilmer Flores
Jose Reyes
Jeurys Familia
Addison Reed
Hansel Robles
Robert Gsellman
Jerry Blevins
Michael Conforto
Seth Lugo
James Loney
Kelly Johnson
Lucas Duda
David Wright
Alejandro De Aza
Rene Rivera
T.J. Rivera
Jay Bruce
Matt Harvey
Juan Lagares
Brandon Nimmo
Fernando Salas
Travis d'Arnaud[/list:u:zwcxuu2a]

[nymr83]

Grimm - Familia over Reed? why? Saves are a crap stat - Familia was very very good this year - Reed was otherworldly

[nymr83]

one more thing on relievers - these are the strand percentages for some of our primary guys. they dont show up in the box scores but they matter. Reed wasn't so great here. Familia was bad and didnt have too many chances (ie those "save situations" are usually easier than coming in mid-inning as others are asked to do)
[league average is about 27%]

PITCHer	Inherited	Stranded	Score%
Familia, Jeurys	11	5	54.50%
Reed, Addison NYM	33	21	36.4%
Robles, Hansel NYM	48	33	31.3%
Smoker, Josh NYM	12	10	16.7%
Henderson, Jim NYM	19	16	15.8%
Salas, Fernando NYM	20	17	15.0%
Edgin, Josh NYM	20	17	15.0%
Blevins, Jerry NYM	55	47	14.5%
Salas, Fernando NYM	25	22	12.0%
Goeddel, Erik NYM	18	16	11.1%
Montero, Rafael NYM	7	7	0.0%
Salas, Fernando	5	5	0.0%

[Benjamin Grimm]

Nymr83 wrote: Grimm - Familia over Reed? why? Saves are a crap stat - Familia was very very good this year - Reed was otherworldly

Well, I put them right next to each other. I essentially gave them a tie. I agree that saves are a crap stat, by the way.

[Frayed Knot]

I'm going to say the end of January for this one.
So if you still want to contribute and/or change/update an existing submission, do so by the close of January or forever hold your peace.

[nymr83]

very little interest this year?

can we post the high/low/avg for each player so we can have a frame work for some debate?

[Ceetar]

I intend to do this but I keep forgetting.

today. it's not like I have literally anythign to do at work. maybe I'll get software today.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I'm the only dummy with Cespedes over Syndergaard. I'm gonna double check that, and insert Cecchini somewhere in there because I overlooked him.

[Ceetar]

Reserve the right to tweak this later.

30 - Noah Syndergaard
29 - Neil Walker
28 - Yoenis Cespedes
27 - Jacob deGrom
26 - Asdrubal Cabrera
25 - Curtis Granderson
24 - Bartolo Colon
23 - Steven Matz
22 - Addison Reed
21 - Jeurys Familia
20 - Robert Gsellman
19 - Kelly Johnson
18 - Michael Conforto
17 - Jose Reyes
16 - Matt Harvey
15 - Seth Lugo
14 - Wilmer Flores
13 - Hansel Robles
12 - Juan Lagares
11 - David Wright
10 - Alejandro De Aza
09 - Travis d'Arnaud
08 - Jerry Blevins
07 - T.J. Rivera
06 - Lucas Duda
05 - Jay Bruce
04 - Rene Rivera
03 - Brandon Nimmo
02 - Fernando Salas
01 - Jim Henderson

Lol. I almost put Matz twice because I combined the pitcher and hitter lists of players and sorted by fWAR and Matz as a batter comes in 29th. Syndergaard comes in at 17.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Walker over cespedes?

[Frayed Knot]

can we post the high/low/avg for each player so we can have a frame work for some debate?

Like I said earlier, most of the variation is among the part-timers, those in the middle/bottom of the list. The top is more or less consistent.


As of now, compared to the existing consensus:

- EDGY is coming in high on Lagares, Salas, Ruggiano, and Kelly; low on Flores, Conforto, and is off the board on Loney & Wright

- Nymr: high on Bruce & Wright; low on Reyes & Harvey

- Vic Sage is high on (well we won't know for sure until the lab comes back with the results) but also Lagares, Salas, Henderson, Kelly; low on Loney, Wright, Conforto, Flores, Reyes

- Seawolf is high on d'Arnaud, Henderson, Verrett; low on Gsellman, Harvey, Duda

- JCL is a bit up on d'Arnaud & Harvey; low on R. Rivera (off the board) & Johnson

- Grimm is high onDe Aza; down on d'Arnaud

- Ceetar is up on Walker, Harvey, Lagares, De Aza; low on Blevins, Loney (off the board), Flores



None of that means you're wrong about those listed, only that you're higher or lower than the pack on those particular guys.

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Walker over cespedes?

need to think about that one. Seems like Cespedes might be getting dinged a bit too much for the CF play when it was more of a desperation thing.