I would now like to hear your WATP

[A Boy Named Seo]

I say let's trade Robert Gsellman and some crapper - say, Tim Tebow - to the Rangers for Jurickson Profar.

Not a firework-y blockbuster, but the Rangers get a controllable 23-year old SP who can slot in as their #5 (MLBTR sez they could maybe be persuaded to trade him for an arm). Plus, there's that southern Christian, jersey-selling gentleman TIM TEBOW.

Mets get a 23-year old switch hitter who played every infield position (and some left field) last season, but is blocked by Roughned Odor and Elvis Andrus in Texas. He might not have a spot with us either right away, but that could change quickly with Wright, Reyes, Cabrera, and Walker all the wrong side of 30, signed for only this season (except Cappy), and getting hurt and shit. I think with his versatility, he could maybe get 350 ABs or more, and be in line to start somewhere in 2018 if he does well.

I think this offer may not be enough, but TIM TEBOW. Then we could be free to trade Wilmer for a hot, young reliever with "upside".

Am I ruining the Mets? Or am I Making Them Great Again??

Give me your thoughts if you have any, and then give me your WATP NOW!!!!

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I think one time I may have dangled a AA Noah Syndergaard for that Purickson Jofar guy and regretted that WATP.

I don;t think we'd want him unless were also trading Cabrera or something

[A Boy Named Seo]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I think one time I may have dangled a AA Noah Syndergaard for that Purickson Jofar guy and regretted that WATP. I don;t think we'd want him unless were also trading Cabrera or something

Yeah, deep in my pitch, I advocated moving Wilmer for a live, bullpen arm. How about San Diego's hulky and boringly-named lefty Brad Hand? Weirdly broke out to the tune of 11.2 K/9 last year, while the previous 5 years he averaged 5.9. Mets get a high-K bullpen arm, and Wilmer gets to live closer to the 'Friends' set on the WB lot in Burbank.

[Edgy MD]

Lucas Duda, Dominic Smith, Marcos Molina, and Eric Goeddel for Joey Votto.

The Mets get the #3 hitter to allow Céspedes to quit pretending and be the cleanup guy he was born to be, and David Wright, God willing, to quit pretending and be that #2 guy. The Reds get their first basemen of the present AND the future, a potential top-of-the-rotation starter, and a reliever that deserves a higher profile than the Mets are giving him.

Power, average, and a devastatingly good eye, Votto would be offer maniacal production in the middle of the Mets lineup. signed for seven more seasons plus an option/expensive buyout in 2024, Votto is expensive enough at the end of that contract that the Reds somehow overlook Duda and Molina being damaged goodniks.

[Guest d'Kong76]

I know you can't trade someone on the DL, but how does that work after
the season is over and the player is expected to be ready for spring training?
I'm not mentioning any names right now *wink wink* *sniff sniff* but a fun WATP
could be made including the guy I may or may not be thinking of.

[Centerfield]

Edgy MD wrote: Lucas Duda, Dominic Smith, Marcos Molina, and Eric Goeddel for Joey Votto. The Mets get the #3 hitter to allow Céspedes to quit pretending and be the cleanup guy he was born to be, and David Wright, God willing, to quit pretending and be that #2 guy. The Reds get their first basemen of the present AND the future, a potential top-of-the-rotation starter, and a reliever that deserves a higher profile than the Mets are giving him. Power, average, and a devastatingly good eye, Votto would be offer maniacal production in the middle of the Mets lineup. signed for seven more seasons plus an option/expensive buyout in 2024, Votto is expensive enough at the end of that contract that the Reds somehow overlook Duda and Molina being damaged goodniks.

That contract is ridiculous. I think you wouldn't have to give up all that much for Votto.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Centerfield wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Lucas Duda, Dominic Smith, Marcos Molina, and Eric Goeddel for Joey Votto. The Mets get the #3 hitter to allow Céspedes to quit pretending and be the cleanup guy he was born to be, and David Wright, God willing, to quit pretending and be that #2 guy. The Reds get their first basemen of the present AND the future, a potential top-of-the-rotation starter, and a reliever that deserves a higher profile than the Mets are giving him. Power, average, and a devastatingly good eye, Votto would be offer maniacal production in the middle of the Mets lineup. signed for seven more seasons plus an option/expensive buyout in 2024, Votto is expensive enough at the end of that contract that the Reds somehow overlook Duda and Molina being damaged goodniks. That contract is ridiculous. I think you wouldn't have to give up all that much for Votto.

Yeah it is, but that's a goddamn Wild-Ass Trade Proposal right there! Entering his age 33 season and owed $172M for the next 7 years (!), plus that option Edgy mentioned. I would think that $24.5M per year would scare us away, rightfully so. Reds be crazy.

[Edgy MD]

d'Kong76 wrote: I know you can't trade someone on the DL, but how does that work after the season is over and the player is expected to be ready for spring training? I'm not mentioning any names right now *wink wink* *sniff sniff* but a fun WATP could be made including the guy I may or may not be thinking of.

The DL is closed right now, and all players are treated as active.

I figure, yeah, crazy contract, but he's still productive, so it hasn't particularly depreciated yet (look what Fangraphs thinks he's been worth from year to year), AND it's not backloaded, so his cost in real dollars goes down toward the end of the contract, AND I'm trading them damaged goods.

AND his brand has receded in the Harper/Trout era, even if he's still pretty devastating in his batsmanship. AND he's the perfect guy for this lineup, even if we have little idea how long that would last.

Scared by $24.5 million per season over seven years? Sure, life is perilous, but it looks like they're about to offer north of $30 million to Yoenis Céspedes and his hinky leg and golfer's tendons over five, so who's crazy NOW, playa?!! Big time baseball management is a game fraught with RISK!

It's wild, and it's ass, but it's my trade proposal to do with as I see fit.

[Edgy MD]

And you know what I think of when I think of trading with teams desperate to get out of an overzealous commitment to their lefthanded firstbaseman who bats third? I think of John Olerud.

I mean, yeah, I also think of Mo Vaughn, but still.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

We might need to surrender Doodoo and Matz, but I'm listening.

Question is what if Votto tanks? He's apparently a sensitive guy

[Edgy MD]

If Votto tanks, then I get fired. Simple as that. Two sluggers in a row from the Reds come to Flushing and eat it? Along with George Foster? They'd never deal with the Reds again.

But I'm betting on his skill set having better potential to grow old gracefully than Céspedes'. But you know, put them both in the same lineup, taking the psychic heat off of one another, and mercy! It's Keith and Gary. It's Olerud and Piazza. It's Buster Stookey and Mike Jaffe. Print me some playoff tickets.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Only someone with Votto on their roto team would be pushing this UWATP.

[Centerfield]

Also has a full no trade clause. So you'd have to overcome that.

I don't know. Even if the Reds just handed him over, you'd have to pause given that contract. He's 33 years old. You get three good years tops. Then four bad ones. Do you take a deal knowing, even before day 1, that more than half the deal is probably a money drain?

Still, his performance is pretty sick. 3 Hole hitter. That is exactly what this team needs.

[Edgy MD]

d'Kong76 wrote: Only someone with Votto on their roto team would be pushing this UWATP.

How dare you suggest I have a roto team.

[Centerfield]

I logged on with the intent to post that if you are going to go with an expensive 33 year old first baseman, go the "cheap" route and sign Encarnacion. He is looking for 5 years, $125 million. Similar production, but fewer years and you get to keep your prospects. But the numbers don't bear it out.

After digging a little, points to consider:
*Votto is 9 months younger, so he is going into his age 33 year, Encarnacion will be 34 on Opening Day
*Votto hits, like, a lot better. 100 point differential in OPS. Almost all of due to a much higher OBP. So he's not only a better hitter, he's the type of better hitter this team needs
*Oh yeah, defense

Still. You're going to pay him until he's 40!

[Guest d'Kong76]

Edgy MD wrote: How dare you suggest I have a roto team.

[fimg=350]http://www.kcmets.com/CPF/bugs.jpg[/fimg]
Ain't I just a little stinker?

[Vic Sage]

i'll take that Votto deal, WATP or no. With our projected rotation over the next 3 years, he'd be the perfect fit to get us over the hump (with Cespedes). After that, its a rebuild anyway.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Centerfield wrote: Also has a full no trade clause. So you'd have to overcome that.

Prospect of reuniting with Jay Bruce ----->>> WIN

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Matz and Grandy for Chris Sale and David Robertson.

I'll hang up and listen.

[Vic Sage]

you won't be able to hang up faster than the White Sox GM.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Yeah, but I like the idea. If we had a Michael Fulmer still, that might help kick it over the top. I would add Gsellman, Nimmo, and TEBOW and see if he still slams the phone down.

[Zvon]

I like Gsellman alot. Lugo too, but I think I'd dangle him out there first.
I have no interest in Votto playing in NYm (unless we get him for nothing).

I like what we have brewing so far. This GM would try and hold on to the arms as long as possible.

Id be thinking "catcher" and if we move in that direction Trav or Plaw can be part of the deal.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Votto, if he hits like Votto, would be awesome in this lineup. You could hit Walker 8th if you wanted.

[Edgy MD]

Yeah, huh? No interest in Votto? He wins the OBP crown like every year. This is Joey Votto we're talking about, not Joey Cora. I mean, he's pie in the sky. But it's my sky. And he's sweet pie.

Want to know why Bruce was on his way to an RBI title until he came to the Mets, at which time he proceeded on his way to Stoogeville?

Joey Votto, that's why.

[Zvon]

Edgy MD wrote: Yeah, huh? No interest in Votto? He wins the OBP crown like every year. This is Joey Votto we're talking about, not Joey Cora. I mean, he's pie in the sky. But it's my sky. And he's sweet pie.

To each their own.
I think Votto in NY, at this point in his career, is not worth any of our pitchers (for position players I'd be more enthused). It's what I call an opinion.
Personally I don't think he has the makeup to play in The Big Apple.

Edgy MD wrote: Want to know why Bruce was on his way to an RBI title until he came to the Mets, at which time he proceeded on his way to Stoogeville? Joey Votto, that's why.

Do please explain that one. All Bruce had to do was continue producing. He is also a player I fear cannot handle playing in NYC. I will happily eat my words if he is still here in 2017 and puts up Jay Bruce type numbers for a whole season in NY.

[Edgy MD]

Well, my WATP included Lucas Duda, Dominic Smith, Marcos Molina, and Eric Goeddel, so there was very little taken from the pitching side of the roster. It was very WA that way.

As for Bruce, there was some hyperbole involved, but obviously, RBIs come much more frequently when the guy in front of you is winning an OBP crown, which Joey Votto did for the fifth time in seven years, while playing in 159 games.

I hate trades and don't really advocate for this, but as long as we're being encouraged to be WA, I figured that a lefty who plays every day and gets on base like nobody's business is really what seems to be missing from the team's feast-or-fast offense.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Jay Bruce -> Blue Jays for CF prospect Anthony Alford, + LHRP Aaron Loup

Nimmo / Gsellman / TEBOW -> Pirates for one year of downtrodden Andrew McCutcheon. Sounds like the Nats are already moving on some McCutch deal but we can beat those bastards with the inclusion of TEBOW.

[Edgy MD]

The Reds are up a creek on catching. Sign Matt Wieters for two years and add Travis d'Arnaud to the Joey Votto package they're secretly building.

[MFS62]

Edgy MD wrote: The Reds are up a creek on catching. Sign Matt Wieters for two years and add Travis d'Arnaud to the Joey Votto package they're secretly building.

At first read, this was a WATP. But after thinking about it, the WA drops off. Pretty good.

Later

[Edgy MD]

This was actually meant to be in the WATP thread. Moving now.