Center Solutions

[Edgy MD]

Maybe crazier than the Puig proposal, maybe not, but I'd like to see Reyes play some center, at least against some lefties.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Maybe crazier?

[soupcan]

Wasn't that a part of the plan with him when they got him?

I jus hope these guys can hold it together until Reyes and Cespedes can join Bruce in the lineup.

[Guest d'Kong76]

There was some outfield talk, I lose track of where it comes from these days.
Everyone knows everything, and the quicker they can tell us the better.

[Frayed Knot]

Center Solutions?

Is Bryan Trottier available?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

De Aza be like, I got this.

[Edgy MD]

And none too soon. I'm just looking at part-time alternatives.

There's been plenty o' precedent for veteran shortstops playing some center. Yount, Dunston, Ian Desmond.

Get 'em while they still got the arm and flat speed, but the quickness and flexibility are failing. Maybe play De Aza and others against righties, with Reyes at short, but Reyes in center against lefties, with Reynolds or Flores or Cecchini at short.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

When I think about playing Reyes in center, I get Juan Samuel flashbacks and those are not good to have.

[Edgy MD]

I don't know why such moves should be judged in the context of it's worst possible precedents, but the real problem of Samuel in center was the same one he had at second, and that was that he was done as a hitter. If latter-day Reyes hits like latter-day Samuel, yeah, you don't want him playing much center, but then you don't want him playing much shortstop or third or anywhere else either.

But the real question is whether you can reasonably hope he'll make more plays out there than the collection of corner outfielders that are the current alternatives.

[MFS62]

Casey Stengel believed that the skills necessary to play short (speed, quickness, arm) were transferable to center field. He converted many shortstops to centerfielders while managing the MFYs. The most notable example was Mickey Mantle. Others included Tom Tresh and Tony Kubek and maybe Bobby Murcer.
In one World Series, the Tiger manager moved centerfielder Mickey Stanley to shortstop because of injuries to his regular infielders. IIRC he had never played short before, and he played well.

Who knows how long it would take Jose to learn the position? But if he takes to the position, why not?

Later

[Lefty Specialist]

How many times have the Mets played someone out of position? How many times has it gone well?

[seawolf17]

Lefty Specialist wrote: How many times have the Mets played someone out of position? How many times has it gone well?

"You say 'E7' like it's a bad thing."

[Frayed Knot]

I'm not against the idea of trying Jose in CF, but I don't think it's going to happen now - 'now' meaning whenever he gets back from the DL.
The problem is that this dearth of legit CFs comes at the same time we have a glut of corner OFs so every AB he takes in CF is one that someone from the Bruce, Granderson, Cespedes, Conforto, and, yes, even De Aza [.375/.500/.531 in July] crew doesn't get and it's not at all clear that he's an offensive upgrade to any of them even before you consider whether he's a defensive upgrade over a group where all have already played some CF.
I think it's more likely that he combines with Reynolds & Flores to form a three-headed SS/3B platoon for the rest of the season or at least until if/when Cabrera gets back (news last night on Asdrubal seemed somewhat encouraging ... or at least less dis-couraging.

[Edgy MD]

Lefty Specialist wrote: How many times have the Mets played someone out of position? How many times has it gone well?

Well, "well" is relative, as is "out of position." These things aren't imprinted on their DNA.

Elliot Maddox at third worked fine. He just wasn't much of a hitter any more.

Moving Clint Hurdle to third and then catcher, that really helped also.

Daniel Murphy was good enough at second. He was better than good enough at first.

Kevin Mitchell was good enough wherever they played him.

Lee Mazzilli did a perfectly defensible job at first base.

Jim Fregosi did fine at third, but he was hampered by injuries and partying and unfamiliar with the league and that kept him from hitting.

Moving Kaz Matsui from short to second was almost doing him a favor.

Melvin Mora, minor league shorstop, called up and made into a big league outfielder. Worked out like the dickens.

Ditto Jordany Valdespin. Nice arm. Weird routes, but sure got there.

6f5b0H7If7I

Right in the middle of a pennant race, Hubie Brooks became the regular shortstop for the first time since college. No animals were harmed or killed. I think he carpeted his stairs that season also.

[fimg=350]http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.448548.1314597259!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/amd-brooks-now-jpg.jpg[/fimg]

Here's the thing about centerfield. It's not a refined position. You need athletic skills more than studied baseball skills to play it. And if you've got the athletic skills, you can learn the baseball side of it on the job.

Frayed Knot wrote: I'm not against the idea of trying Jose in CF, but I don't think it's going to happen now - 'now' meaning whenever he gets back from the DL.

I agree, especially since (1) Terry has a long history of deference to veterans and not putting them in an unfamiliar position, and (2) it looks like the team's starting shortstop is going to be out for a bit.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Earlier in his career, mebbe. But the top-end speed and hand-eye-coordination are ebbing, as are the reflexes. I can squint a bit, and still not see it.

[Edgy MD]

But, again, compared to the alternatives?

Genenerally, for a more-or-less pedually healthy dude, it's not the high-end speed that fades so much in the thirties, so much as the shuttle-run quickness, the instant acceleration and stopping, so center can be more viable during this decade than shortstop, thus the precedents cited above.

[Vic Sage]

de Aza has hit his way into the conversation, and he's probably the most experienced CF currently on the roster, except for Granderson. But Granderson hasn't hit for shit this year (there's a shocker) and he doesn't help us by playing CF everyday. Meanwhile, Conforto is busy trying to remember how to hit and Nimmo is the least of both worlds. And all these guys (including deAza) are LHed with big platoon splits. So, if Cespedes is really not going to play CF anymore, then we need a RHed bat that can play CF to platoon with one of these guys, and Ruggiano isn't it. Reyes? Hell, yeah, why not? We're not going to win this without taking some chances. How about Herrera? We could move him to... oh, wait. nevermind.

[RealityChuck]

MFS62 wrote: In one World Series, the Tiger manager moved centerfielder Mickey Stanley to shortstop because of injuries to his regular infielders. IIRC he had never played short before, and he played well.

Not for injuries, but because their regular shortstop, Ray Oyler, had a slash line of .135/.213/.186. To be fair, that year he was batting 40 points lower than his lifetime average...

[Frayed Knot]

RealityChuck wrote: In one World Series, the Tiger manager moved centerfielder Mickey Stanley to shortstop because of injuries to his regular infielders. IIRC he had never played short before, and he played well. Not for injuries, but because their regular shortstop, Ray Oyler, had a slash line of .135/.213/.186. To be fair, that year he was batting 40 points lower than his lifetime average...

Ah yes, the old mid-'60s defense-first model of shortstops: 5' 11" / 165 (and that might have been generous), a lifetime slash rate of .175/.258/.251 while K'ing nearly 30% of the time against 15 career HRs. Only once did his BA top .200 (.207) in a season.
Even by the standards of that day he was a really, really bad hitter and yet he managed to snare just shy of 1,500 ML PAs across six seasons with that bat.

I often think of guys like him (and Mark Belanger, Dal Maxvill, etc.) when fans start talking about how today's pitchers can't hold a candle to Gibson, Seaver, Palmer, etc. -- and I'm like, yeah, but today's guys have to face 225 pound middle infielders who can take them out of the park to the opposite field and far fewer accountant-sized dudes hoping to get their bat on the ball and make a productive out.
Much less setting it to 'cruise control' for hurlers during the 7-8-9 portion of the lineup these days.



Looking at Oyler's stats, after playing for the expansion Seattle Pilots in 1969 (BALL FOUR readers will remember his name) and then very briefly for the Cal Angels in '70, he continued to hack it out in the minors for two more seasons hoping to catch another break but it was not to be. Not sure what the details were for the rest of his life but Oyler was dead by the age of 42 just 10 years after leaving baseball.

[Edgy MD]

Oyler fell to a heart attack. Denny McLain describe him as an overt alcoholic, which you can take as you will.

[Vic Sage]

well Denny would know.

[ashie62]

Vic Sage wrote: well Denny would know.

Denny bet on it.