Reviewing the Review Process

[Frayed Knot]

This got buried in Wednesday night’s IGT but really should have had its own space
Side note: ** YOU DON’T NEED SPECIAL PERMISSION TO START A NEW THREAD FOLKS. **

Anyway, it was a link to a Jayson Stark article where he looks at “Fixing” replay now that it’s in its third season.


Most of his info seems to come via Braves exec John Schuerholz, the original chairman of the replay committee, and he seems naturally protective of it even while claiming to be open to suggestions for improvement.

High-lights:
- Replay reviews are up 35% this season. The ‘Utley Rule’ additions for this year are thought to be responsible for some of that although it seems to me that managers also feel more secure in challenging the miniscule call early in the game and/or at other non-crucial situations while still being able to talk their way into a review later on even if their challenge quota has supposedly already been burned.
- The average replay is 1:55 but it’s also gone UP every year despite the predictions from within that times would drop as the sport became accustomed to the system. Did the guys who thought that entirely miss the last three decades of the NFL?
- The average “decision time” for managers is 36 seconds, so that needs to be tacked onto that 1:55 ‘headphone’ time. What he doesn’t mention when saying that it's only 2-1/2 minutes is that there are often several times per game that managers eat up time in 36 second chunks when deciding NOT to challenge various calls.
- Supposedly the umps in the studio DO begin reviewing potential replays even before they’re called to by the field umps; other execs, however, claim that this is not the case.
- Umps supposedly like the system while claiming they'd ultimately rather be right than quick.

[Guest cooby classic]

hehe I actually started a thread on opening day denouncing it. I just hate it. I think it's the worse thing in baseball right now.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Frayed Knot wrote: - Umps supposedly like the system while claiming they'd ultimately rather be right than quick.

I like it too. And the amount of time a replay review takes has never, ever been an issue with me. I'm totally fine with it. Get the call right. That's the main thing and there's no way getting around that reviewing a play is gonna add time to the game. To tell you the truth, it wouldn't even register with me that replay adds some time to the game if I weren't a member of this forum. I mean, I know, logically, that replay adds time to the game, but I don't really feel it when I watch a game. There are a heck of a lot of other reasons, discussed to death already, as to why a 3-1 game now typically takes more than three, three and a half hours to complete.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I like the replay reviews too. I think it's an idea whose time has come and although it's not perfect, it's more positive than negative.

[nymr83]

I don;t necessarily think of it as "wasted time" either, unless they start cutting to commercials. Watching a close play a few more times on replay doesn't bore me.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

In a matter of taste I don't like the general way play results have become sort of hypothetical in the replay era. I don't like the way it can interfere with the processing of excitement on close plays. And I only care about them getting it right when its a call that needs to go our way.

Baseball shirley don't need any more game-lengthening delays, whether you notice it or not.

[TransMonk]

I think I've said it before, but I find the challenge system utterly ridiculous (in both MLB and NFL). If replay is that important, add an extra ump up at the press level who has access to TVs for each game. If it looks like the call on the field was wrong, that ump would signal down to the crew chief to hold up while he takes an extra look.

If the goal TRULY is to get the calls on the field right, then the onus should not be on the team manager to have the umps review.

As far as the time taken under this scenario, it would probably add some minutes to the game (like it does during the final two minutes of each half in the NFL). But, if that's a big deal, then scrap it. Pace of the game and replay do not work together and it's hard to have it both ways.

My prime choice is no replay at all.

[Edgy MD]

I just can't stand the fact that the team gets to do their own video review before calling for a video review.

Screw that. If you believe the call was wrong, say so on the field.

[Frayed Knot]

Edgy MD wrote: I just can't stand the fact that the team gets to do their own video review before calling for a video review. Screw that. If you believe the call was wrong, say so on the field.

Which would also serve to cut down (if not totally eliminate) the challenges that are overturned (or not) following 2 minutes (or 5) of intense examination over whether the runner's spikes came off the base by 1/8 of an inch during his pop-up slide - something that NO ONE envisioned as a problem that needed to be corrected by replay.

[Ceetar]

Just because no one realized runners were getting away with popping off the bag doesn't mean that they shouldn't be overturned. They should. They're out. stay on the bag.

[Guest d'Kong76]

I'm generally ok with the way things are. I could be persuaded that the
umpires (one in the sky) should be deciding if a play is to be reviewed or
not but that's not big to me right now. What drives me nuts is when a lengthy
review goes on and on when the video clearly supports something. Umps make
between $100,000 - 300,000, Joey Beerinhand sitting in his living room shouldn't
have to mumble for three minutes what the frig are they looking at?

[Guest themetfairy]

d'Kong76 wrote: What drives me nuts is when a lengthy review goes on and on when the video clearly supports something.

That's the thing - if they can't make a decision in 60 seconds, then it isn't a clear enough mistake to overturn. Move along.

[Diamond Dad]

Reply is supposed to be there to reverse a clear error on the field. If the guys in NYC looking at the video get the slo mo and multiple angles and still can't see a CLEAR error, then the call on the field stands and move on. Should not take so long. It's clearly a reversal, or the call stands.

to speed things up, managers should have 15 seconds to come out of the dugout to challenge or forget it. Teams can still have their own video guy in the press box calling down to the dugout, but do it faster or skip it -- remember -- CLEAR error or nothing.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Guest

[Frayed Knot]

But the problem becomes that once you buy into the notion that "getting it right" is paramount over all other concerns, then there's no delay too long, no margin of error too slim, and no call so minor not to take the process to its furthest limits.


[cross-posted w/DD]

[batmagadanleadoff]

themetfairy wrote: d'Kong76 wrote: What drives me nuts is when a lengthy review goes on and on when the video clearly supports something. That's the thing - if they can't make a decision in 60 seconds, then it isn't a clear enough mistake to overturn. Move along.

Not necessarily. There might be indisputable recorded evidence that the call should be reversed, but that the umps didn't get to the particular decisive replay angle right away. How long the replay umps at command central take to resolve the dispute isn't dispositive of how obvious the error is.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Ceetar wrote: Just because no one realized runners were getting away with popping off the bag doesn't mean that they shouldn't be overturned. They should. They're out. stay on the bag.

Damn right!

[ashie62]

cooby wrote: hehe I actually started a thread on opening day denouncing it. I just hate it. I think it's the worse thing in baseball right now.

Its as fake as the DH.

[Fman99]

Diamond Dad wrote: Reply is supposed to be there to reverse a clear error on the field. If the guys in NYC looking at the video get the slo mo and multiple angles and still can't see a CLEAR error, then the call on the field stands and move on. Should not take so long. It's clearly a reversal, or the call stands. to speed things up, managers should have 15 seconds to come out of the dugout to challenge or forget it. Teams can still have their own video guy in the press box calling down to the dugout, but do it faster or skip it -- remember -- CLEAR error or nothing.

I'm with James Bond over here on both points.

Also, obviously, the worst thing about baseball is the DH. By a long stretch.

[Frayed Knot]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Just because no one realized runners were getting away with popping off the bag doesn't mean that they shouldn't be overturned. They should. They're out. stay on the bag. Damn right!

It's fine with me if umps thumb someone out for coming off the base. I just don't want a 3-1/2 minute break each time while the CSI: MLB squad micro-examines the evidence as to whether he actually came off for a split-sec and was the stray lace from the fielder's glove touching the runner's sleeve at the exact moment he momentarily lost contact with the pillow.
Otherwise, if righting every possible wrong is the ultimate goal here, then let's go to the headphones for every play at which point we can meet here each night at 3 AM to discuss how the 5th inning is going.
And time of game is not the only reason that system would suck.