Cobb, Ruth, Mathewson, Wagner and Johnson

[batmagadanleadoff]

As if you didn't know, that's the Baseball Hall of Fame's inaugural class (1936) -- often referred to as the greatest group of inductees ever. It is, but not because the early 20th century players were greater. It's the greatest class because it's the first class, culled from decades and decades of baseball without a Hall of Fame. If a 50 year HOF moratorium was imposed beginning today, the class of 2065 would be just as impressive as the class of 1936.

Of course, I can't prove this because nobody's gonna put the 50 year kibosh on the HOF, and even if a 50 year moratorium was imposed, I don't think I'd be there to see the 2065'ers make their induction speeches.

But we can pretend some and impose a make-believe moratorium to see how another group of HOF inductees would stack up against the class of '36.
And that's what this exercise is all about. We're gonna pretend that the last HOF inductees were from the class of 1965, and that a 50 year moratorium on HOF voting was imposed right after ol' Pud Galvin was voted in as the lone selection for 1965.

Your job is to make out a ballot for the fantasy post-moratorium 2015 class. Everyone that was eligible for induction beginning in 1966 is eligible for selection in this exercise. Under these rules, you can pick up to seven persons.

Let's see whatcha got.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Guest

[Edgy MD]

It makes sense that history should stop after Pud.

Mays, Mantle, Aaron, Seaver, Carlton, Schmidt, Henderson, Brett. How's that?

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy MD wrote: It makes sense that history should stop after Pud. Mays, Mantle, Aaron, Seaver, Carlton, Schmidt, Henderson, Brett. How's that?

That's eight. You gotta cut one. I got a hunch that Seaver's gonna do real fine on this forum. It's a tough vote, for sure. You omitted, among dozens of top tier HOF'ers, Williams and Musial.

[Edgy MD]

Sheesh, I stupidly guessed they were in by 1965. But Musial was still whacking it when the young Mets came into existence.

Mays, Mantle, Aaron, Schmidt, Henderson, Musial, Williams.

Suck it, pitchers?

[dinosaur jesus]

Stan Musial, Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Hank Aaron, Mike Schmidt, and Tom Seaver. Greg Maddux would be deserving too, but screw him.

[MFS62]

I hope we'll have to wait at least another 50 years before Jeter gets in.

Later

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Just missing out: Bench; Henderson; Koufax; Clemens; Maddux; Martinez; Johnson; Carlton; Schmidt
My list: Mays, Aaron, Williams, Musial, Seaver, Mantle, Bonds

[G-Fafif]

Seaver, Mays, Carter, Piazza, Hernandez, Hodges.

Get this thing started right.

[batmagadanleadoff]

G-Fafif wrote: Seaver, Mays, Carter, Piazza, Hernandez, Hodges. Get this thing started right.

You're obviously one of those hardasses that purposely don't use all of their allotted votes, probably in order to draw attention to yourself. Can't come up with seven HOF'ers, even after a 50 year hiatus?

Me, I woulda voted just like you did, but adding Ol' Case to the ballot.

[Fman99]

Musial
Mantle
Mays
Williams
Aaron
Seaver
Frank Robinson

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Williams
Mays
Seaver
Henderson
Musial
Aaron
Gehrig

[RealityChuck]

Mays
Williams
Mantle
Aaron
Seaver
Banks
Rose

If Rose is ineligible, then put in Bonds
If Bonds is ineligible due to the steroids thing, then put in Yaz.

[G-Fafif]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: G-Fafif wrote: Seaver, Mays, Carter, Piazza, Hernandez, Hodges. Get this thing started right. You're obviously one of those hardasses that purposely don't use all of their allotted votes, probably in order to draw attention to yourself. Can't come up with seven HOF'ers, even after a 50 year hiatus? Me, I woulda voted just like you did, but adding Ol' Case to the ballot.

I had Casey on my first iteration, but figured since he was inducted by Veterans Committee it was somehow outside the spirit of the exercise. Also deeply considered Henderson and Berra (and, after posting, Martinez), but figured we didn't have to grope for Metsian connections. My other totally biased would-be was Koosman, who I've always maintained should have gotten a longer look considering Bunning is in with vaguely similar credentials, but in our new 50 year HOF class, we don't have to think "if he's in, then he's in."

I was going to include Aaron, maybe Musial, but why devalue the Hall of Fame with non-Mets?

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Williams Mays Seaver Henderson Musial Aaron Gehrig

Just because he's the Luckiest Man on the Face of the Earth doesn't mean he gets two induction ceremonies, man. Also, Rose, or Yaz, Chuck? I can think of at least twenty I'd rather have over either.

Bonds is the second or third best player of all-time, people. Search your feelings. You KNOW it to be true. (Killed me to leave off Henderson, though.)

[MFS62]

Fman99 wrote: Musial Mantle Mays Williams Aaron Seaver Frank Robinson

I like that list.
Frank, not only for his playing, but then breaking the color line in the dugout AND the GM seat, he might be the most historically significant person in baseball since (and maybe including ) Jackie.

Later

[batmagadanleadoff]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Bonds is the second or third best player of all-time, people. Search your feelings. You KNOW it to be true. (Killed me to leave off Henderson, though.)

I like your list. I got Bonds on my preliminary list too, but I'm struggling with objectivity. My problem is that I hate Clemens but I'm struggling to objectively justify keeping Clemens off a ballot that's got Bonds. I think it's tough to make a case for Bonds while omitting Clemens.

[Edgy MD]

I don't think so. It depends on which timeline you buy.

One popular timeline, and the one I tend to ascribe to, is that Clemens started using following his exile from Boston, at which point he became the best pitcher on the planet with two straight Cy Young Awards and 162 wins in his post-Boston career. If he's the pitcher Boston thought he was at that point, he has (generously) 50 wins left in that arm. He's a Hall of Famer, perhaps, but a borderline one.

A similar popular timeline has Bonds beginning his juice diet following the 1998 season. He's got an incredible streak going of seven straight four-digit OPS seasons, but he's grown bitter with the attention received by the home run record chase between juicemongers Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa. He's already a clearcut Hall of Famer. And he's still at a lofty perch to amass some further great seasons during his decline.

Bonds has a much stronger case by this measure.

Conveniently, both these changes occur at the age 33-34 border, but... Barry Bonds through age 33 has a best comp of Frank Robinson, and it's not even that strong, with a similarity score of 868 out of 1000. Roger Clemens through the same timeline has a best comp of Dwight Gooden (944 out of 1000), who ain't in no Hall of Fame. It's only from that point forward he starts turning into Tom Seaver.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy MD wrote: I don't think so. It depends on which timeline you buy. One popular timeline, and the one I tend to ascribe to, is that Clemens started using following his exile from Boston, at which point he became the best pitcher on the planet with two straight Cy Young Awards and 162 wins in his post-Boston career. If he's the pitcher Boston thought he was at that point, he has (generously) 50 wins left in that arm. He's a Hall of Famer, perhaps, but a borderline one. A similar popular timeline has Bonds beginning his juice diet following the 1998 season. He's got an incredible streak going of seven straight four-digit OPS seasons, but he's grown bitter with the attention received by the home run record chase between juicemongers Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa. He's already a clearcut Hall of Famer. And he's still at a lofty perch to amass some further great seasons during his decline. Bonds has a much stronger case by this measure.

Or one can just ignore the whole steroid thing altogether and just look at the stats. That's another option.

[Edgy MD]

Of course.

[Vic Sage]

by WAR:

top 6:
Bonds
Mays
Aaron
Clemens
Musial
Williams

then there is a little drop off to
Seaver
Henderson
Mantle
F.Robinson
Maddux
Schmidt
R.Johnson
J.Morgan

with another drop off to
Yaz
Carlton
Brett
P.Martinez

Then:
Glavine
Ryan
Carew
Rose
B.Robinson
Bench
Ozzie

with a final level of
Carter
Banks
Piazza
Koufax

The top 6 makes sense to me, except i'm not emotionally equipped to vote for Clemens. so for the last 2 slots, it would be between Mantle, Seaver and Rickey. So first, i'll go with our guy.

Bonds
Mays
Aaron
Musial
Williams
Seaver

Then for the 7th slot, do i go for Rickey or Mickey? I gotta go with the ex-Met.

FINAL BALLOT
Bonds
Mays
Aaron
Musial
Williams
Seaver
Henderson

...with Mickey, Frank Robinson and Mike Schmidt rounding out the top 10 for a regular HOF ballot, and Clemens off somewhere, sucking cock for heroin.