Harper, Papelbon brawl in dugout

[Frayed Knot]

Up 4-2 heading into the 8th, the Nationals wind up losing 12-5. Nice bullpen once again.

So why should we care about this now? Well we shouldn't really, except that the meltdown was punctuated by an in-dugout brawl between Harper and Papelbon.
I didn't see it first hand, but Harper had just [crossout:c5hvh33q]grounded[/crossout:c5hvh33q] popped out and on his trip back to the dugout Papelbon was mouthing at him the entire time (lack of hustle maybe?). Not long after Bryce got into the dugout itself the two went at it and it certainly wasn't just one of those pushing/shoving type of false fights.

The details, assuming they ever get out, should be interesting, especially since the Nats assumed Papelbon's contract through next season when they acquired him.

Edited September 27, 2015 by Guest

[Edgy MD]

JP got a piece of Harper's neck. Had higher ground, too.

http://thebiglead.com/2015/09/27/bryce-harper-and-jonathan-papelbon-had-to-be-separated-in-nats-dugout/

[Zvon]

I think those two were made for each other. That was just a lovers spat.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Unreal. I cannot believe the Nationals sent Papelbon back out there to pitch the following inning!

[Lefty Specialist]

Wow. Just a complete breakdown on so many levels. Sucks to be them.

[Frayed Knot]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Unreal. I cannot believe the Nationals sent Papelbon back out there to pitch the following inning!

While Harper left the game.

And while it's tough to blame GM Mike Rizzo for not forecasting just how poorly this move would backfire, that's now 13 runs against for Papelbon in just 22 IP (even if only 8 were earned runs).
They needed bullpen help at the deadline, but what a crash and burn that turned out to be! Papelbon makes them promise he'll be the closer but Williams can't seem to get him in to close games or even into tight games against your only division rival. Then, as a result, Storen pouts, gets worse, then punches his way out of the season. And now Papelbon also gets worse and punches the franchise player.

[Edgy MD]

How fired is Matt Williams? What better way to demonstrate how resigned you are than to send Papelbon back out there? Wally Backman is totally brushing up his r�sum�.

Harper, meanwhile, on his way to becoming the first guy since Barry Bonds to be jumped by a teammate in his own dugout on his way to an MVP award. Congratulations Bryce!

Papelbon, amazingly, is under contract for next year. He may be a terrific guy who is misunderstood (I mean, who doesn't want to punch Harper?), but he sure seems to have left behind a long trail of teammates who hate him. I see him going to Miami for dimes on the dollar.

[RealityChuck]

I think the fight started when Papelbon bragged he was a bigger dick than Harper. Harper couldn't let his dickishness be challenged.

[Centerfield]

Awesome.

[HahnSolo]

Harper in his post game comments intimated that he took himself out of the game; also when asked if Papelbon apologized he said Yeah but I don't care.

This is so great.

[Edgy MD]

Not for nothing, but in the second angle, Harper can be seen hitting the back of the dugout pretty hard with Papelbon's hands to his throat. He might well have not been in any shape to continue.

I guess if I'm Rizzo, I'd be sending Bon-Bon home early for the winter.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

Harper popped out to left field and basically walked toward first base with his bat in hand. Papelbon started jawing at Harper (presumably about not running ball out) as he started down the dugout steps. Harper took issue and started yelling at Papelbon, who then went for Harper's throat.

Matt Williams refused to give any detail regarding the incident. He stated it was a "family matter" and it will be dealt with internally. Confirmed that no one was hurt during the altercation.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Q: Where was Werth when this was going down?
A: He was polishing his ring.

[Zvon]

Opposite view from what I saw on TV. Sheesh.

[dinosaur jesus]

It's funny, isn't it? Someone finally dares to suggest to Bryce Harper that a professional should always do his very best, no matter what the situation. Just a gentle admonishment from someone who knows what it takes to be a winner. But somehow, who's the bad guy here? Papelbon! That's the culture in DC in a nutshell. It's not about winning, it's about keeping the superstar happy. Don't criticize him. Don't put your hands around his throat and slam his head against a wall. Back in the day, if a young slugger had dogged it on a popup, do you know what Walter Johnson would have done? No one knows, because they knew not to try it.

[Fman99]

The whole thing is utterly great.

[Frayed Knot]

I actually don't think Harper is in the wrong here.
Yeah he jogged down to 1st, but it was a weak pop-up behind 2nd where he wasn't getting to 2nd even if the ball was somehow dropped. And if someone wants to call Harper out for non-hustling it probably shouldn't be a reliever who's been on the team for about 20 minutes. If Werth, Zimmerman, or of course Williams wants to do so then fine. But Papelbon was clearly the aggressor here both verbally and physically and, even if you think he's in the right here, he's certainly NOT right in how he went about it.
Harper could use a comeuppance every now and then, but I don't think this particular incident was the time or the place.

[Frayed Knot]

[fimg=350:1x8yc1rc]https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2015/09/27/Sports/Images/490330798.jpg[/fimg:1x8yc1rc]

Where's you ring? ... Try looking around your collar.

[RealityChuck]

dinosaur jesus wrote: Back in the day, if a young slugger had dogged it on a popup, do you know what Walter Johnson would have done? No one knows, because they knew not to try it.

Johnson was known for his kindly and gentle demeanor so even if he said anything, it would have been just a quiet word, likely in private.

Ty Cobb, however, would have killed him.

[Centerfield]

Bryce Harper should be running out ground balls. Any veteran/coach/manager is perfectly ok to point this out and call him on it. The timing on this one is obviously not great, since, as FK pointed out, even if it was dropped you're not going for 2nd base there anyway.

Papelbon is a dick. It's well documented that he's a dick. His teammates hate him and I have seen enough quotes to understand why. His underlying message might be right, but that's what happens when you're a dick. Even when you're right, you're wrong. He was also wrong, obviously, to go after him in public, then to attack him physically.

I have no idea what Harper is like as a person. Certainly he seems arrogant and dislikeable, but I've never heard him blame his teammates, or disparage anyone. Maybe he's a great guy. Who knows. It would be interesting to see who the other Nationals side with.

The only thing that disappoints me is that this might ensure that Matt Williams will not be back next year. I think this is not fair. Williams is clearly the man for the job and should be given another chance to right this ship. In fact, ten more chances. Sign Williams to a 10 year extension NOW!!!!

[Edgy MD]

The Nats who are going to bother with sides are going to side with Harper. (1) He's their bread and butter. (2) He has been their teammate far longer and can expect to be around far longer. (3) Papelbon started this verbally and escalated it to physical. There's no stock in siding with him. Even the guys in the bullpen aren't gonna wanna sit next to him. Rizzo should just send him home at this point.

That said, Harper's got a track record of being a dick going back 'til when he was like 15. Scouting reports going back to high school were all over it.

The real wonder is that Matt Williams said he wasn't really aware of what happened. (1) It went down in your dugout, where you sit during the game. (2) You had to pull your best player as a result. And you didn't know quite what happened? How disengaged can you get?

[Centerfield]

CUT IT OUT ED. MATT WILLIAMS IS A GREAT MANAGER. SAY IT WITH ME.

[Lefty Specialist]

Not just Matt Williams, but Mike Rizzo as well. The Mets should vote each of them a playoff share.

[Ceetar]

meanwhile Paps officially suspended for 7 games (the original 3+ 4 for this incident) and Matt Williams is 90 minutes late for his pre-game press conference.

[Edgy MD]

So, Papelbon is done as a National. And maybe Williams as well.

Bench Coach Randy Knorr, your moment is now.

[Lefty Specialist]

Wonder who picks him up next year in exchange for some washed-up A-Baller. Because there's no way he's coming back to the Nats next season.

[Edgy MD]

I wonder if they made any attempts to trade him last night. The Angels (for instance) could use a week's worth of an All-Star closer. But he probably hasn't cleared waivers.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: I wonder if they made any attempts to trade him last night. The Angels (for instance) could use a week's worth of an All-Star closer. But he probably hasn't cleared waivers.

doubt it, better off trying to trade in the offseason with more time and clubs to deal with.

[Frayed Knot]

So that Nats nick him for 4 games on top of the league suspension for 3 (although he's still appealing that one) which conveniently adds up to the remainder of the season. Some think they ought to just cut him a check NOW!!!! for next year but I suspect they'll try to see what they can get for him over the winter.
Thing is, they have to remake the bullpen now as it is. Dumping him just makes it that much of a bigger job.

[Edgy MD]

Parnell for Lucas Giolito. Do it, Steve!! Or Omar!! Or whoever!!11!!