General Purpose Winter Meetings Thread

[Vic Sage]

He's an excellent pitcher, but he's on the wrong side of 30, with 7 straight 200IP seasons. a 6-year deal for that kind of pitcher is unlikely to go well. But i guess Theo knows that and figures they're 1 pitcher away from being in immediate contention? I don't see it, but he would know better than me.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

There is some speculation that Lester was lucky to have become the object of a Big Dick contest between the arrogant Red Sox brass and I'll-show-you deposed leader Theo Epstein.

[Edgy MD]

The Cubs think they're a 200-inning pitcher away, they shoulda talked turkey with the Mets over Bartolo Colon.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: There is some speculation that Lester was lucky to have become the object of a Big Dick contest between the arrogant Red Sox brass and I'll-show-you deposed leader Theo Epstein.

Giants, too, no?

[MFS62]

Well, at least they made a few moves at the meetings. I was beginning to think I was going to celebrate Pass-over twice this year.

Later

[Frayed Knot]

Although I checked MLB's bylaws and it turns out that it IS possible to make trades, sign players, and make a myriad of other roster decisions even after the winter meetings are over.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Quotes by team brass about starting season with
Flores and Murphy and they were close on things
but nothing materialized isn't very encouraging.

Cuddyer was a hasty boondoggle or something.

[ashie62]

I'm good until I hear management suggest Ruben Tejada could be in the SS mix.

[Edgy MD]

I've got no problem with Tejada being in the shortstop mix. I hope he hits .450.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

d'Kong76 wrote: Quotes by team brass about starting season with Flores and Murphy and they were close on things but nothing materialized isn't very encouraging. Cuddyer was a hasty boondoggle or something.

I disagree a bit. If they are saying things like "We really gotta move Flores and Murphy, these guys suck" the team appears desperate or the players they are looking to deal have no value. It's like saying, "This pudding tastes awful. Have a spoonful."

They have to say that they are willing to start the season with those guys.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Frayed Knot wrote: Although I checked MLB's bylaws and it turns out that it IS possible to make trades, sign players, and make a myriad of other roster decisions even after the winter meetings are over.

I agree with this! Making deals at the winter meetings to appease columnists who will accuse you of not making moves is how you make bad trades or sign bad free agents.

[ashie62]

Edgy MD wrote: I've got no problem with Tejada being in the shortstop mix. I hope he hits .450.

Tejeda is a dicktease but without the dick.

[Edgy MD]

I don't think we understand the meaning of dicktease the same way.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Don't be so quick to dismiss that, Edge-- in certain penal contexts, that could be accurate.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: d'Kong76 wrote: Quotes by team brass about starting season with Flores and Murphy and they were close on things but nothing materialized isn't very encouraging. Cuddyer was a hasty boondoggle or something. I disagree a bit. If they are saying things like "We really gotta move Flores and Murphy, these guys suck" the team appears desperate or the players they are looking to deal have no value. It's like saying, "This pudding tastes awful. Have a spoonful." They have to say that they are willing to start the season with those guys.

I understand, really I do. We're getting pudding alright,
and never mind a spoonful it's more like a 55 gallon drum
of it, is this off-season has been big for all the big teams.
Small teams settle for Cuddyer and Phillie send offs.

[Edgy MD]

I think they'll be fine. And I don't think anybody's saying they got to move these guys who suck.

And I think they'll even be fine if the end up not moving anybody and going to camp with six starters. Or eight or ten.

Winning the off-season is always an illusion. Win the season.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Edgy MD wrote: I think they'll be fine. And I don't think anybody's saying they got to move these guys who suck. And I think they'll even be fine if the end up not moving anybody and going to camp with six starters. Or eight or ten. Winning the off-season is always an illusion. Win the season.

I understand, really I do. Here, have some pudding.

[Edgy MD]

Mmmm... wait a minute... yuck!

Cosby has totally ruined pudding for me.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

d'Kong76 wrote: d'Kong76 wrote: Quotes by team brass about starting season with Flores and Murphy and they were close on things but nothing materialized isn't very encouraging. Cuddyer was a hasty boondoggle or something. I disagree a bit. If they are saying things like "We really gotta move Flores and Murphy, these guys suck" the team appears desperate or the players they are looking to deal have no value. It's like saying, "This pudding tastes awful. Have a spoonful." They have to say that they are willing to start the season with those guys. I understand, really I do. We're getting pudding alright, and never mind a spoonful it's more like a 55 gallon drum of it, is this off-season has been big for all the big teams. Small teams settle for Cuddyer and Phillie send offs.

Boom! You fell right into the mindset trap! Don't care with the "big teams" did in December, unless spring training becomes winter training and we start playing in January. If there is nothing done to improve the team by April 1, it's a different conversation.

Which free-agent signed so far did you want the Mets to sign? No need for Lester. Hanley's not the Hanley of old. We have no use for the Panda. I don't want to give Thor away for some Didi Gregourious type just because "the big teams" had a couple press conferences during the winter meetings.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: Boom! You fell right into the mindset trap! Don't care with the "big teams" did in December

I'm not trapped ... look, still running around mad. If
the Mets can't afford to operate like a big market team
they should sell the fucking team and be done with this
five-year charade.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

d'Kong76 wrote: Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: Boom! You fell right into the mindset trap! Don't care with the "big teams" did in December I'm not trapped ... look, still running around mad. If the Mets can't afford to operate like a big market team they should sell the fucking team and be done with this five-year charade.

That's exactly the trap! Just because the teams you perceive as big market teams hold press conferences during the winter meetings to sign contracts with players we had no interest in doesn't mean w're not acting like a big market team. We've been through the "Blow money on over-priced players we didn't need" phase. It causes long-term damage and depletes your farm system.

It seems to me now they are building from the bottom up for the long haul.

Which of the players signed during the winter meetings did you want them to sign? About the only one I think we had any use for would be Robertson. If the Red Sox want to blow up their infield for guys in decline, let them. Opening day roster> winter meetings roster.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Dude, I know all that. You eat your pudding, I prefer to
throw mine up at their doorstep this morning.

Hope they have a good first class flight home... and their
pudding has worms in it.

[Centerfield]

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: Boom! You fell right into the mindset trap! Don't care with the "big teams" did in December I'm not trapped ... look, still running around mad. If the Mets can't afford to operate like a big market team they should sell the fucking team and be done with this five-year charade. That's exactly the trap! Just because the teams you perceive as big market teams hold press conferences during the winter meetings to sign contracts with players we had no interest in doesn't mean w're not acting like a big market team. We've been through the "Blow money on over-priced players we didn't need" phase. It causes long-term damage and depletes your farm system. It seems to me now they are building from the bottom up for the long haul. Which of the players signed during the winter meetings did you want them to sign? About the only one I think we had any use for would be Robertson. If the Red Sox want to blow up their infield for guys in decline, let them. Opening day roster> winter meetings roster.

If the Mets were acting like a big market team, they would have been in on the Cuban guy. He's young, got potential and costs less than Granderson. Take a flyer on him and eat the contract if it doesn't work out. Big market teams try out Matt Kemp, or Jose Reyes and scoff at the contracts they carry with them. They are big market teams. They can take the hit.

Small market teams sign Michael Cuddyer, and forfeit a first rounder draft pick in the process.

[Centerfield]

Put it this way, the Mets payroll was $88 million last year. If you raised their payroll to be in the top ten in baseball (Toronto was 10th with $118 million), you would automatically add $30 million to the budget.

If you added $30 million to payroll, even Omar could have put a playoff contender on the field in 2013.

Money doesn't ensure winning, but it makes it a hell of a lot easier.

[Edgy MD]

Sure, but we now know all along that they were spending money they didn't have, drawing from an account of future windfalls that never came, because of Madoff's perfidy, certainly, but also because of the championships that never came between 2006 and 2009.

So now they're forced to live within their means, and still try and produce an awesome team team that expands their means. Either they do it well or they don't.

Whether the team is rich or poor, I can't help but view Tulowitzki with anything but suspicion. I bet he's the one who pushed Clint Barmes down the stairs.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Mets Guy in Michigan wrote: Which free-agent signed so far did you want the Mets to sign? ... Hanley's not the Hanley of old.

Hanley might not be what he used to be, but that's not the point and besides, who is? Hanley's about a gazillion times better than Tejada is -- he'll hit more HR's in two weeks than Ruben'll hit in five or six years. And Hanley's exactly the kind of FA a big boy franchise from a big market goes after if they think that SS is their biggest hole. I don't wanna beat a dead horse any more than I have to, but the idea that today's Mets would sign a quality SS FA that's as good as peak Hanley if only that SS were on the market is ludicrous.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy MD wrote: Sure, but we now know all along that they were spending money they didn't have, drawing from an account of future windfalls that never came....

If it turns out that the Mets were spending beyond their means even before the Madoff scandal broke, then the owners are even more incompetent that I would have ever imagined. If the owners couldn't leverage their New Yorkness market advantages in order to compete financially with the Yanks and Red Sox and Phillies, then the Wilpons needed to get run out of town like 10 years ago.

[Edgy MD]

I'm sure you've imagined the failures of the regime. It's all out there in black and white.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

If the Mets were acting like a big market team, they would have been in on the Cuban guy. He's young, got potential and costs less than Granderson. Take a flyer on him and eat the contract if it doesn't work out. Big market teams try out Matt Kemp, or Jose Reyes and scoff at the contracts they carry with them. They are big market teams. They can take the hit. Small market teams sign Michael Cuddyer, and forfeit a first rounder draft pick in the process.

With Granderson, you know what you are getting and we reasonably got what we expected, at least for some stretches of the season. The Cuban guy is a total crap shoot, and the Mets' track record with international players with no MLB experience has not been especially good. I'd be gun shy after Kaz Matsui, too.

It doesn't make sense to me to throw gobs of money at a player who is a complete unknown or one that is in his declining years just to prove to sports writers that you are a big market team. MLB is littered with players who sports writers belittled the Mets for not signing who turned out to be a waste of money -- Bourne, Choo are two recent examples.

Seriously did you want Matt Kemp at that salary? Or even Jose at what he's signed for?

If the rotation led by Harvey, Wheeler, de Grom and friends is kicking butt and we're in contention, no one is going to care that we didn't feel big market in December.

[Guest d'Kong76]

I wonder if Alderson, et al fly home commercially or if
they have use of a private jet flying into Westchester.