Ralph Kiner

[metirish]

A nice piece on Kiner from the Baseball prospectus: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=22766

I enjoyed that, thanks.

[Centerfield]

"One wonderful man," Tim McCarver once said. "Any group of people is better off if Ralph joins."

Ironic that this comes from Tim. I grew up on McCarver and Kiner. I thought the two were great. After the duo were no longer a team, I couldn't believe how douchy Tim became. (Ralph on the other hand was great whereever he went.) I just assumed Tim had become too full of himself and gotten out of control. Then a few years ago, they had Ralph visit the Fox booth. Joe Buck took a back seat. McCarver switched to play-by-play, and Ralph provided the color. Suddenly Tim was respectful, humble and not at all douchy for those few innings. Just like magic Tim was likeable again.

I know that Ralph accomplished a lot, and everyone will talk about them. Dating Janet Leigh, all the HR's, etc. But for me, it was this. Thanks Ralph for making McCarver not an unbearable douche during my childhood.

[Edgy MD]

If you were a Met fan the sixties and seventies, when every day was a great day for baseball and you had three sharp minds and professional gents to share the scene with, you were lucky.

If you were a Met fan in the eighties, and you had Tim and Ralph deepening the level of analysis for one of the most compelling teams ever, with Bill Webb reinventing the production as they went along, and Steve Zabriskie as setup man, well, you were lucky too.

If you were a Met fan in the aughts onward, with the unfiltered Keith, the unstumpable Ron, and the unflappable Gary, and blessed visits from Ralph that made time stand still, you were real lucky.

If you were a Met fan in the nineties, when an aging and tiring Ralph Kiner found himself between Seaver's pomposity and Healy's jocky backslapping, you were... well, you were probably lucky too, but you didn't know it. Because you had been so very lucky prior.

Keith may never be the gent Ralph is, but in his acumen, his curiosity, his life of baseball stories and connections, and his utter genuineness, he's a great figure to carry on Ralph's legacy.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: Keith may never be the gent Ralph is, but in his acumen, his curiosity, his life of baseball stories and connections, and his utter genuineness, he's a great figure to carry on Ralph's legacy.

Indeed. But will Keith still be willing to pop into the booth in 2041 to tell stories about Lou Brock and the 1970s?

[Edgy MD]

I don't know. He made a point at the end of his career about having no interest in coaching or managing because the game and the lifestyle were just so slow and he has such a restless mind. (Whether this is a product in part of his addiction, or perhaps a factor in it, is a matter of speculation.) He likes being a rich and successful man and he lives far away from the ballpark, but I think he likes the comeraderie, and as he's aging and twice divorced (like Ralph), maybe boredom will keep him coming back.

It's a push and a pull. Baseball may not be enough of a lifestyle solution for a restless mind, but on any given day it's a great solution for a few hours.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

Pete Seeger and then Ralph Kiner. My celebrity grandfather figures are dwindling.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: I don't know. He made a point at the end of his career about having no interest in coaching or managing because the game and the lifestyle were just so slow and he has such a restless mind. (Whether this is a product in part of his addiction, or perhaps a factor in it, is a matter of speculation.) He likes being a rich and successful man and he lives far away from the ballpark, but I think he likes the comeraderie, and as he's aging and twice divorced (like Ralph), maybe boredom will keep him coming back. It's a push and a pull. Baseball may not be enough of a lifestyle solution for a restless mind, but on any given day it's a great solution for a few hours.

Actually the "pop in occasionally when schedules collide and when you feel like it" probably works well for Keith. Maybe he doesn't have 20 more years of GKR every day stuff (not that he doesn't take a good 30 games off a year anyway) but yeah I could see him enjoying popping in every once in a while.

[G-Fafif]

Centerfield wrote: Then a few years ago, they had Ralph visit the Fox booth. Joe Buck took a back seat. McCarver switched to play-by-play, and Ralph provided the color. Suddenly Tim was respectful, humble and not at all douchy for those few innings. Just like magic Tim was likeable again.

Remember that brief reunion well; wrote about it at the time here. Kenny Albert was the announcer who pulled back and let Ralph and Tim be Ralph and Tim. Perhaps never was the phrase "the magic is back" more apropos.

[Guest d'Kong76]

[Ceetar]

Realized I only had crappy pictures of Ralph Kiner Night and none of him actually on the field.

[fimg=600:1hd4skbd]http://www.ceetar.com/optimisticmetsfan/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/KinerNight.jpg[/fimg:1hd4skbd]

[G-Fafif]

Tim on the FAN with Evan Roberts NOW!!!

[Centerfield]

G-Fafif wrote: Centerfield wrote: Then a few years ago, they had Ralph visit the Fox booth. Joe Buck took a back seat. McCarver switched to play-by-play, and Ralph provided the color. Suddenly Tim was respectful, humble and not at all douchy for those few innings. Just like magic Tim was likeable again. Remember that brief reunion well; wrote about it at the time here. Kenny Albert was the announcer who pulled back and let Ralph and Tim be Ralph and Tim. Perhaps never was the phrase "the magic is back" more apropos.

Greg, wow thanks for linking that. That was spot on. I think that's why that day resonates with us. That was the last time (and first time in years) we had the pleasure of listening to real Ralph. Thanks for capturing that moment for us.

Man it must be nice to be a good writer.

[G-Fafif]

So nice of you to say, CF. It's great to have those thoughts of Ralph and Tim come back today.

I came to eventually cherish the cameos Ralph made with GKR in the years that followed. That SNY and the Mets treated Ralph as an heirloom rather than a relic is to their eternal credit...and just good sense.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Then a few years ago, they had Ralph visit the Fox booth. Joe Buck took a back seat. McCarver switched to play-by-play, and Ralph provided the color. Suddenly Tim was respectful, humble and not at all douchy for those few innings. Just like magic Tim was likeable again. Remember that brief reunion well; wrote about it at the time here. Kenny Albert was the announcer who pulled back and let Ralph and Tim be Ralph and Tim. Perhaps never was the phrase "the magic is back" more apropos. Greg, wow thanks for linking that. That was spot on. I think that's why that day resonates with us. That was the last time (and first time in years) we had the pleasure of listening to real Ralph. Thanks for capturing that moment for us. Man it must be nice to be a good writer.

I remember that FAFIF piece because of the bit about Greg in a Delgado Mets jersey. I remember trying to visualize the lunch(?) date and to guess which Mets style jersey Greg was wearing (I guessed the pinstripe-less home whites).

P.S. To all you fathers out there: "Happy Birthday".

[G-Fafif]

Then a few years ago, they had Ralph visit the Fox booth. Joe Buck took a back seat. McCarver switched to play-by-play, and Ralph provided the color. Suddenly Tim was respectful, humble and not at all douchy for those few innings. Just like magic Tim was likeable again. Remember that brief reunion well; wrote about it at the time here. Kenny Albert was the announcer who pulled back and let Ralph and Tim be Ralph and Tim. Perhaps never was the phrase "the magic is back" more apropos. Greg, wow thanks for linking that. That was spot on. I think that's why that day resonates with us. That was the last time (and first time in years) we had the pleasure of listening to real Ralph. Thanks for capturing that moment for us. Man it must be nice to be a good writer. I remember that FAFIF piece because of the bit about Greg in a Delgado Mets jersey. I remember trying to visualize the lunch(?) date and to guess which Mets style jersey Greg was wearing (I guessed the pinstripe-less home whites). P.S. To all you fathers out there: "Happy Birthday".

It was a DELGADO 21 t-shirt or, in the current vernacular, "shirsey". I'm too "cheap" to buy jerseys.

[Edgy MD]

Centerfield doesn't give himself enough credit as a writer. Look around at what's on the internet, and you realize we're particuarly blessed here. Most of us can write at least a little. A lot of good voices here, and Centerfield is certainly not the least in that regard.

Know what I can't do? Draw.

[Benjamin Grimm]

You probably know it by now, but you (Greg) were quoted in the Daily News today, on the second-to-last page.

[G-Fafif]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: You probably know it by now, but you (Greg) were quoted in the Daily News today, on the second-to-last page.

I did not know that. Isn't the second-to-last page the TV listings or a furniture ad?

[Benjamin Grimm]

That's right. You were quoted as saying that an educated consumer is the best customer.

Actually, for a while now the second-to-last page has been something called "The Big Picture" which includes a large photograph, and then a collection of tweets and other quotes sometimes, but not always, related to the large photo.

Today it was all about Ralph Kiner. You were quoted as saying, "There has never been the Mets without Ralph Kiner. There will always be Ralph Kiner with the Mets. RIP." You came right between Gary Myers and Don Lagreca.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Love that cartoon!

[G-Fafif]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: That's right. You were quoted as saying that an educated consumer is the best customer. Actually, for a while now the second-to-last page has been something called "The Big Picture" which includes a large photograph, and then a collection of tweets and other quotes sometimes, but not always, related to the large photo. Today it was all about Ralph Kiner. You were quoted as saying, "There has never been the Mets without Ralph Kiner. There will always be Ralph Kiner with the Mets. RIP." You came right between Gary Myers and Don Lagreca.

I Tweeted that, which certainly cuts down on the News's need for reporting. (A more accurate quote than the time they man-on-the-streeted me about Willie Randolph's firing.) Thanks for letting me know.

[G-Fafif]

Centerfield wrote: This is really a sad day for the Mets and all of baseball. I don't care that he was 91. He should have lived to 250 if it were up to me.

Damn straight. Might have curtailed his innings to like three a year, but deep down I trusted Ralph to defy standard human chronology indefinitely.

[Edgy MD]

Did he outlive all three of his wives?

Life on the road and a taste for cigars may cut down ordinary men. Ralph Kiner was no ordinary man.

[Lefty Specialist]

From the comments was one thing that leapt out at me:

My favorite part was when Tim was going on and on about Ralph's popularity on both coasts, and Ralph said, �What about Pittsburgh?�

That was vintage 80's Ralph, right there. He was a Hall of Famer back then too, but he wasn't treated with too much deference by his broadcast partners, and he gave as good as he got.

While it was good to see him later in the aughts and teens, he was treated so much like an icon (which granted, he was) and not enough like a broadcaster (which he was a lot longer than he was a ballplayer). You could see sometimes he'd want to jump back into it, like that day with McCarver, but age and the Bell's palsy wouldn't let him do it. So while I was glad to see him, I was always a little sad about what time had done to him.

When my wife and I were watching Ralph in the last game of last season, we both wondered out loud if it'd be the last time we'd see him. It was.

[G-Fafif]

Ralph really was the best. When I first encountered Jayson Stark in the 80s he was doing the Philly Inquirer's baseball columns I could barely believe how he'd call out "Kinerisms" as though Ralph were some kind of clown like Bob Uecker or an idiot jock who couldn't communicate, when Ralph was neither of those things. His malaprops were relatively few even among actual broadcasters. I mean, he was a real knowledgeable baseball guy with a sense of humor who could call a close game or tell a funny story. Fucking up phrases was barely a part of him. Was it or was it?

Stark insists Ralph was in on the fun.

I never got to see the late, great Ralph Kiner swing a bat. But I was lucky enough to spend many summer evenings listening to him speak into a microphone. And it was hard to think of a better way to pass a few hours than that, on many levels. Ralph Kiner was a beautiful man. Try to find anyone who ever met him who didn't love him, or love being around him. Anyone. He had a story for every occasion. He saw the game on levels a lot of people didn't. And he had one of life's special gifts -- the ability to laugh at himself. I'm especially grateful for that last gift because, as anyone who read my old Week in Review column in the Philadelphia Inquirer could tell you, I somehow became America's foremost collector of Ralph Kiner malapropism classics. It became, after a while, a weekly feature of that column, because, let's just say, there was never a shortage of those pearls to choose from. Collecting them was a labor of love, and it didn't require much labor. I heard many of them myself. And Kiner fans sent them to me by the hundreds. They were true treasures of American broadcasting. And the reason I felt free to relay them to the world was simple: Ralph didn't mind. Not one bit. His good friend and old Mets broadcast partner Tim McCarver used to assure me of that on a regular basis. And, at one point, I got a phone call, out of the blue from Danny Peary, an author who was writing a book with Ralph Kiner. Peary's question (of course): What were my favorite Kinerisms? After I relayed a few, I couldn't help but ask: "If you're writing a book with Ralph, why'd you call me?" "Ralph told me to call you," he said, "because you have the best collection of these of anyone." So before I start reminiscing about some of the greatest Ralph Kiner gems of all time, I needed to make that clear. Ralph Kiner understood those Kinerisms were part of his legend. And he was totally cool with that.

[Benjamin Grimm]

That may or may not be true, but to anyone reading Stark's columns back then, the impression was that Kiner was a buffoon.

Also... I watched Daily News Live on SNY last night. (It apparently preempted Mets Hot Stove) and Bill Madden horribly botched the famous Choo Choo Coleman anecdote.

Ralph: What does your wife call you?

Choo Choo: She calls me Mr. Coleman.

Apparently Bill Madden conflates Choo Choo Coleman with Sidney Poitier.

[Edgy MD]

That's exactly what he's doing.

Bill Madden, showing his Hall of Fame form.

[Zvon]

Id usually shrink an image this big down in size but maybe one of you guys want this for your files. Excellent picture.
It would be quite a project, but I'm thinking about colorizing this.

[Edgy MD]

Sports Illustrated put up that photo today, saying it was from Ralph's second season in a September 13 game against the Red Sox. I didn't have the heart to be a dick and let them know that the Pirates didn't play the Sox in 1947, and that the Indian head on the catcher's sleeve probably indicated that the "BOS" on the label the caption writer found probably meant Boston Braves."

It would be an ugly move, I thought, to mark Kiner's death by getting some poor kid fired. He or she probably doesn't even remember the world before interleague play.

[G-Fafif]

For the sake of the historical record, don't be shy about letting them know -- nicely, of course. The very able Ted Berg did a wonderful piece for USA Today about his Kinerrific experiences from SNY, but in the rush to get it posted, a picture of Ralph with Stan Musial and Yogi Berra identified his photomates as Bob Murphy and Lindsey Nelson. I courteously let Ted know and it got fixed (albeit not before there were several "what kind of dopes...?" posts circulating around).

And honestly, I don't think SI would fire anybody for not recognizing the Boston Braves...though it might be a more accurate world if that sort of thing was was considered a serious internal offense. Every day for at least a year I've received an email from SI letting me know I can order a framed copy of the 2012 "Sportsman of the Eyar" cover.