Mike & The Mikettes: 2014 HOF Ballot

[G-Fafif]

Eight wore the Mets uniform, though none quite like Mike.

Moises Alou
Jeff Bagwell
Armando Benitez
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Sean Casey
Roger Clemens
Ray Durham
Eric Gagne
T#m Gl@v!ne
Luis Gonzalez
Jacque Jones
Todd Jones
Jeff Kent
Paul Lo Duca
Greg Maddux
Edgar Martinez
Don Mattingly
Fred McGriff
Mark McGwire
Jack Morris
Mike Mussina
Hideo Nomo
Rafael Palmeiro
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Kenny Rogers
Curt Schilling
Richie Sexson
Lee Smith
J.T. Snow
Sammy Sosa
Frank Thomas
Mike Timlin
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

Let the unnecessarily overheated discourse begin!

[Frayed Knot]

My gut reaction says: Piazza, Maddux, Glavine, Raines, Biggio

I could be talked out of Glavine.
I could be talked into Frank Thomas, Schilling, Bagwell, Mussina, Kent, Trammel, and of course the Bonds, Clemens, Sosa triumvirate

[Ceetar]

None. screw 'em all, steroid cheating bastards, every last one of them.

[Edgy MD]

Guyz I'm surprised have been out of the game long enough to qualify:

Sean Casey
Ray Durham
Eric Gagne
Paul Lo Duca

Gagne is a double whammy, as I'm also surprised he was in the game long enough to qualify.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Frayed Knot wrote: My gut reaction says: Piazza, Maddux, Glavine, Raines, Biggio I could be talked out of Glavine. I could be talked into Frank Thomas, Schilling, Bagwell, Mussina, Kent, Trammel, and of course the Bonds, Clemens, Sosa triumvirate

You have to go for Frank Thomas -- 500+ homers, two-time MVP, never a hit of the bad stuff.

Trammell is qualified, but I'm afraid his time has passed in too many voters' minds.

[seawolf17]

My ten, on gut alone:

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Greg Maddux
Edgar Martinez
Jack Morris
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Frank Thomas
Alan Trammell

I'll give Morris one more shot.

[batmagadanleadoff]

What's the rumor with the voters? Are they gonna keep out their steroids suspects for another year?

[Ceetar]

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Greg Maddux
Edgar Martinez
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa
Frank Thomas

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

These are the players who should get serious consideration:

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
T#m Gl@v!ne
Jeff Kent
Greg Maddux
Edgar Martinez
Don Mattingly
Fred McGriff
Mark McGwire
Jack Morris
Mike Mussina
Rafael Palmeiro
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Lee Smith
Sammy Sosa
Frank Thomas
Alan Trammell

Eliminate the ones with known and serious steroid taint, because the writers are clearly not going there, at least yet:

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
T#m Gl@v!ne
Jeff Kent
Greg Maddux
Edgar Martinez
Don Mattingly
Fred McGriff
Jack Morris
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Lee Smith
Frank Thomas
Alan Trammell

It's Jack Morris's last year, and you never know what will happen in the last year. And every other person who has finished second has eventually been enshrined. So, leave in Morris and eliminate the guys writers have passed on for more than a few years and have not made great upward strides:

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
T#m Gl@v!ne
Jeff Kent
Greg Maddux
Edgar Martinez
Jack Morris
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Frank Thomas

I think this is a bad year to be a borderline guy, given the presumably clean and overqualified people this year:

Craig Biggio
T#m Gl@v!ne
Greg Maddux
Jack Morris
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Frank Thomas

I think Maddux is a shoe-in, and Mr. "Disappointed but Not Distraught" will get votes so they can go in together. I think the general consensus was the Biggio got screwed last year, as did Piazza. Raines deserves it and has been slowly gathering steam, but will probably fall short this year.

Craig Biggio
T#m Gl@v!ne
Greg Maddux
Jack Morris
Mike Piazza
Frank Thomas

That's an extraordinarily large class for the Hall, so maybe Morris has to wait for the vets.

Craig Biggio
T#m Gl@v!ne
Greg Maddux
Mike Piazza
Frank Thomas

That's still a huge class, but last year's debacle hopefully awakened enough people.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

The writers who tried to make a statement with their last non-vote really created some problems for future votes and of course did nobody any favors or justice.

I think the whole let's-punish-the-steroid-users attitude helps less worthy guys like Jack Morris at the expense of guys who ought be considered light years ahead of him, and will create a huge logjam that will take years to clear out and likely cost a few worthy guys their due.

Here's what I wanna say:

Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Greg Maddux
Edgar Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Roger Clemens
Curt Schilling
Tom Glavine
Frank Thomas

Do the writers have a limit on how many they cast votes for? They act like they do. If you're gonna take some from me it'll be Kent, Clemens and Glavine in that order though all 3 prolly deserve.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Do the writers have a limit on how many they cast votes for? They act like they do. If you're gonna take some from me it'll be Kent, Clemens and Glavine in that order though all 3 prolly deserve.

I believe the limit is 10.

[TransMonk]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Here's what I wanna say: Craig Biggio Barry Bonds Greg Maddux Edgar Martinez Mike Piazza Tim Raines Roger Clemens Curt Schilling Tom Glavine Frank Thomas

I like this list.

[metirish]

TransMonk wrote: Here's what I wanna say: Craig Biggio Barry Bonds Greg Maddux Edgar Martinez Mike Piazza Tim Raines Roger Clemens Curt Schilling Tom Glavine Frank Thomas I like this list.

Yes

I just know Ray Durham is a HOF player in your heart.

The Met that never was.

[Frayed Knot]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Do the writers have a limit on how many they cast votes for? They act like they do. If you're gonna take some from me it'll be Kent, Clemens and Glavine in that order though all 3 prolly deserve. I believe the limit is 10.

It is ten.


I oddly have no memory of Ray Durham.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

You'd have remembered him if Omar only did what I said and traded for him in 2005, leading us to the playoffs that year. Instead he nothing so he could blame it all on Looper.

Ray Durham was like, I dunno, a Brandon Phillips type who spent most of his career with the White Sox.

[HahnSolo]

Just a hunch, maybe I'm a cynic, but I don't think Maddux and Glavine both get in the first time around, since there are so many good candidates to take votes away. I think Maddux is in and Glavine waits.

I think JCL is absolutely right about the glut of candidates, and I don't think the backIog is going to get much smaller this year. I'd love to be wrong. I could easily and happily vote for probably ten of these guys, but if I am guessing who will get in, not who I would vote to get in, I would say:

IN
Maddux
Biggio
Morris (though he'd be near the bottom of my ballot)

Next top vote getters:
Bagwell
Piazza
Thomas
Glavine

I expect that all four of those guys will be in the 60 percent voting range. I think Thomas will split votes with Bagwell; I think Bagwell and Piazza will gain votes but still fall under the suspicions of PEDs, no matter how fair or unfair. And Glavine will fall victim to the "too many guys on the ballot" and "is this guy really good enough to be voted in on the first ballot?" scenarios.

[Edgy MD]

Meanwhile Deadspin has gone to great lengths [crossout]to empower fans[/crossout] [crossout]to subvert the process[/crossout] [crossout]to make a point that needs making[/crossout] do something.

[Edgy MD]

Oh, and I'll go with:

Craig Biggio
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Bonds
Greg Maddux
Edgar Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Frank Thomas
Alan Trammell

That's 10, and there's a lot more I could be convinced on. I'm sure I could be talked out of Bonds, but I'm pretty OK with the narrative that he went roidy after 1998 and he's still one of the top 10-20 players ever if he doesn't.

Among known/established users, I look at him as 20% fraud. Sosa, I feel, is like 77% fraud. McGwire is like 52%, and Canseco, perhaps 89%. Sounds arbitrary? Maybe, but it's not altogether uninformed. i gotta cut a lot of good candidates down to 10.

[Frayed Knot]

HahnSolo wrote: I think Thomas will split votes with Bagwell;

That would give those two something else in common to go along with 5/27/68

[Frayed Knot]

Edgy MD wrote: Meanwhile Deadspin has gone to great lengths [crossout]to empower fans[/crossout] [crossout]to subvert the process[/crossout] [crossout]to make a point that needs making[/crossout] do something.

Not that I think their idea is all that subversive and needs to be stopped immediately, but they seem to be basing it all on the idea that the results have become "increasingly absurd" and that it's largely due to the votes being given to "a random subset" of writers.
I don't always agree with the results either but I'm not buying their premise here.

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Meanwhile Deadspin has gone to great lengths [crossout]to empower fans[/crossout] [crossout]to subvert the process[/crossout] [crossout]to make a point that needs making[/crossout] do something. Not that I think their idea is all that subversive and needs to be stopped immediately, but they seem to be basing it all on the idea that the results have become "increasingly absurd" and that it's largely due to the votes being given to "a random subset" of writers. I don't always agree with the results either but I'm not buying their premise here.

I absolutely buy the premise, but then I don't particularly care about the writers "great players" club much anymore. We'll see if that changes this year.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

My idea to prevent a fiasco like last year from happening again:

Change the rules so that the top two voters get in no matter what the percentage, and anyone over 75 percent should there be more than two.

My buddy researched this, and everyone who has finished in the top two has eventually been enshrined, with the exception of Morris and Biggio from last year. So it's not like standards are being lowered unless there is somehow an amazingly rare dearth of qualified candidates. This ensures someone is always enshrined, reduces the effects of stupid writer tricks, and doesn't limit election to two in the case of a stacked year, as have this year.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I don't understand the desire to get as many people as possible into the Hall. If I was a voter, I doubt I'd ever vote for more than three or four players in a given year. I'd never vote for ten.

I seem to be in the minority here, but I want the Hall of Fame to be very exclusive, even though it's already too late for that.

[ashie62]

Maddux...Frank Thomas and Glavine are locks..

[bmfc1]

Mike Piazza
Jeff Kent
Frank Thomas
Craig Biggio
Greg Maddux
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Edgar Martinez
Jack Morris.

No Hernandez, no Mattingly.
Clemens can go to hell.
Gl@v!ne will get in eventually but I don't want it to be at the same time as Maddux.

[Frayed Knot]

Ceetar wrote: I absolutely buy the premise, but then I don't particularly care about the writers "great players" club much anymore. We'll see if that changes this year.

So make the case then for how and why recent HoF inductees (or non) have become more "absurd" than in earlier years.
And how exactly is the distribution of votes "random"?


What this little exercise of Deadspin's sounds like to me is a display of arrogance along the lines of: we and our readers are internet savvy therefore they know better than those stupid sportswriters. It's fine to think that this exercise in crowd-sourcing will be more "correct" (as if there are cut-and-dried right or wrong answers here) but I think they're both inventing then exaggerating the supposed problems with the current system in order for their "fix" to sound better.

Of course the BBWAA is already a form of crowd-sourcing, usually containing nearly 500 votes that have to be earned with a minimum of a decade of membership.
And even if you want to make the case that as many as 10% of the voters are certifiably insane and all opt to give Greg Maddux's votes to John Franco, the remaining non-insane ones would merely have to vote 'Yea' at slightly above 80% to gain him admittance.

[Edgy MD]

What it sounds like to me is a merry-prankster attention grab/performance art piece. Whatever goes down, they'll get to take a bow at the end.

[Frayed Knot]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: My idea to prevent a fiasco like last year from happening again My buddy researched this, and everyone who has finished in the top two has eventually been enshrined, with the exception of Morris and Biggio from last year. So it's not like standards are being lowered unless there is somehow an amazingly rare dearth of qualified candidates. This ensures someone is always enshrined, reduces the effects of stupid writer tricks, and doesn't limit election to two in the case of a stacked year, as have this year.

I don't consider last year's result to be a fiasco. Some years there are more than others, I fail to see why this is a big deal.
And the idea of allowing players in who fall short of the 75% is pretty much the definition of lowering standards.

[G-Fafif]

1. Piazza
2.-10. Window dressing

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Frayed Knot wrote: I don't consider last year's result to be a fiasco.

Most baseball fans, and the village, and the Hall itself (at least behind closed doors) likely disagree.

Some years there are more than others, I fail to see why this is a big deal. And the idea of allowing players in who fall short of the 75% is pretty much the definition of lowering standards.

NOBODY living-- players, writers, coaches, impresarios, organists, mascots, baseball clowns, vendors with superlative aim-- with a connection to the game was inducted last year. That means nothing to celebrate, when there's actually a hell of a lot to celebrate, and a logjam for the foreseeable future that might actually work to PERPETUATE what happened for the next ten years or so, at least... and push some of the finest pitchers and hitters in the game-- like, top-5 best EVER-- to the Veteran's Committee, if then.

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
T#m Gl@v!ne
Greg Maddux
Edgar Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Frank Thomas

Sorry, Trammell, Walker, and everyone's favorite Motorcycle Acrobat.