Off-season NON-FA news (non-NYM edition)

[TransMonk]

ESPN is reporting Prince Fielder has been traded for Ian Kinsler.

[Frayed Knot]

WHOA ... Didn't see THAT ONE coming!

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Frayed Knot wrote: WHOA ... Didn't see THAT ONE coming!

People here were PISSED after the playoffs, both with his performance and his attitude when it was over. So there will be some happy people.

But I'm stunned they got someone to take that horrible contract.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Seems like Detroit's sending over $30M to help the thing go down.

This is shaping up to be a pretty fun offseason, isn't it?

[MFS62]

So, I guess that Davis for Kinsler deal I dreamed about is out of the question.

Later

[nymr83]

Love the move for Texas, Fielder will bounce back and destroy the ball for them while moving Kinsler opens up room for both Andrus and Profar to play.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Wow. Yet another huge-money FA contract unloaded at the very first opportunity.

Makes you wonder how "available" a guy like Pujols would be.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Wow. Yet another huge-money FA contract unloaded at the very first opportunity. Makes you wonder how "available" a guy like Pujols would be.

And one less suitor for Cano! Does Canoe know we have a rotunda dedicated to his namesake?

Edited November 21, 2013 by Guest

[Frayed Knot]

I guess this solves the problem for Detroit of essentially having three guys going forward for two position: Miggy, Prince, and Carlos Martinez at 1B & DH -- one that everyone knew they were headed for the moment they took on Cabrera. It'll allow them to move Miggy back across the diamond (or he and Martinez can share 1B/DH duties), strengthen a weak position for them (Omar Infante was good at 2B in 2013 but is a FA), get out from under Prince's contract while he's still young, AND it makes room for their best prospect Nick Castellanos who had been mostly a 3B-man as an amateur and through the minors before being shifted to OF due to the overcrowding at the ML level.

Not that Kinsler's contract is all that small itself (a minimum of $62 mil plus the $30mil sent over to even things out) plus he's two years older than Prince, but they can be done with him after 2017 instead of 2020 and you'd think Kinsler's body is a better bet to hold up better over time.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

And, of interest to a very small portion of the Crane Pool Forum, the Tigers now have TWO University of Missouri players on their roster. Kinsler joins Max Scherzer. Go MIZZOU!

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

The other benefit to Detroit is saving some $$ to go and re-sign Scherzer if they want to. I have to say, the Tigers are one of the best orgs in terms of making exciting and decisive moves, Dombrowski gets my "GM of the Year" award.

[Frayed Knot]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: And, of interest to a very small portion of the Crane Pool Forum, the Tigers now have TWO University of Missouri players on their roster. Kinsler joins Max Scherzer. Go MIZZOU!

Two Tigers on the Tigers as it were.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Frayed Knot wrote: metsguyinmichigan wrote: And, of interest to a very small portion of the Crane Pool Forum, the Tigers now have TWO University of Missouri players on their roster. Kinsler joins Max Scherzer. Go MIZZOU! Two Tigers on the Tigers as it were.

Absolutely! Tigers now & then!

In Met world, David Cone also went to Mizzou. And supposedly Brad Pitt was in the J-School at the same time I was there, but I never knew or saw him.

[MFS62]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: And, of interest to a very small portion of the Crane Pool Forum, the Tigers now have TWO University of Missouri players on their roster. Kinsler joins Max Scherzer. Go MIZZOU!

Missouri?
You'd have to show me.

Later

[Edgy MD]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: WHOA ... Didn't see THAT ONE coming! People here were PISSED after the playoffs, both with his performance and his attitude when it was over. So there will be some happy people.

He had a rep for moving on from playoff losses disturbingly quickly with Milwaukee, didn't he?

I think the guy's a trip. A little bit disturbed and detached and untrusting, though.

[Lefty Specialist]

He had a father who was detatched and uncaring in Cecil Fielder. Prince has gone out of his way (he says) to put his family first, over hitting a baseball for a living. So his detatchment from playoff losses may come from that area. My dime-store psychoanalysis, for what it's worth. And yes, I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[Edgy MD]

I think that's a lot of what's going on. When you get used and lied to by your big shot dad, it's understandable that you turn out aloof and untrusting.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Much was made about Fielder's divorce this season. Teammates blamed it for his mid-season struggles.

[Frayed Knot]

I'd be very surprised if this move was made as a reaction to his poor playoff performance.
I think Tiger mgmt is too smart to be swayed* by such a small sample size even if it remains the go-to motive for many in the press.




* I almost typed 'suede' there

[Edgy MD]

Fielder grounded out in the eighth inning of game six in his last trip to the plate as a Tiger, but I like to think of his belly flop in the sixth as his last Tiger statement. Somewhere, Ty Cobb's head exploded.

[Edgy MD]

So, let's scratch that itch --- how much better is Ian Kinsler (105, 97, and 118 OPS+ the past three seasons) than Daniel Murphy (108, 103, 126)? How much more/less should the Mets have offered? Would you have blown 100% of your hard-won Metly financial flexibility on the bloated slugger's bloated contract?

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

I wouldn't touch Fielder's contract. But, I will say, he's been far more durable than people expected. I think he played in every game.

[Edgy MD]

MLB's reigning iron man, in fact.

[Vic Sage]

Edgy MD wrote: So, let's scratch that itch --- how much better is Ian Kinsler (105, 97, and 118 OPS+ the past three seasons) than Daniel Murphy (108, 103, 126)? How much more/less should the Mets have offered? Would you have blown 100% of your hard-won Metly financial flexibility on the bloated slugger's bloated contract?

Kinsler is better.

Murphy's OPS+ is not 126... It's 105 for his career, and was 126 only in 2011 (when he missed 1/3 of a season), and then he put up a 103 (2012) and a 108 (2013) over a full seasons [and a 96 in 2009]. He'll be 29 at the start of next season, and will only be under team control for 2 arb years (2014-2015) before FAgency.

Kinsler will be 32 next year, and is tied up for 4-5 years/$15m per (avg). He's a much better fielder, and a somewhat better hitter, with more power than Murph, though his SBs are trending down (age, perhaps).

I can see why a win-now team like Detroit would prefer Kinsler overall. Even though Murph is cheaper and younger, they wouldn't be able to control him as long, or at a good price.

Fielder will be 30 next year, and his down 2013 season still resulted in a 120 OPS+. Before that, he played every day for 8 years and averaged over 140 during that time. Now, if you think he's starting to decline, rather than 2013 being simply a standard deviation, then no, you don't want his 7yrs/under $19M avg (incl $30m payment from Detroit) on the books, particularly a team with such a short leash, cash-wise.

But Texas may feel a new start in a hitter's park will revive him as the 35-40hr/100r-120rbi/100bb machine he'd been before.
Personally, i would trade Murphy for Fielder +$30m in a heartbeat.

[Edgy MD]

Vic Sage wrote: Murphy's OPS+ is not 126... It's 105 for his career, and was 126 only in 2011 (when he missed 1/3 of a season), and then he put up a 103 (2012) and a 108 (2013) over a full seasons [and a 96 in 2009]. He'll be 29 at the start of next season, and will only be under team control for 2 arb years (2014-2015) before FAgency.

I think you misread what I wrote. I don't state that his OPS+ is 126, but rather stated the numbers the last three seasons for each.

[Vic Sage]

duh. sorry. RMPL.

[Edgy MD]

Orioles get 101 saves in two years from Jimmy Johnson (got to be one of the best two-season totals ever, right?), and move him late last night for... fading infield prospect Jemile Weeks.

A PtBNL is also due to be added. I'm guessing it won't be Josh Donaldson, but it better be something good, because Orioles fans are looking for Duquette's head.

This is a strange name for what I guess is a thread devoted to offseason trades.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I don't know how badly the O's needed a second baseman, but I will trade my closer for an everyday player most days of the month.

Weeks apparently has a rep as a "change of scenery" guy, also going to much a better hitting park.

(Oh, didn;t realize he spent all of last year only hitting OK in AAA)

[ashie62]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24323480/rangers-trade-craig-gentry-to-as

Rangers send Craig Gentry and Josh Lindblom to the A's for Michael Choice and Bostick

Choice had/has been a BBA favorite with big power potential..

[Guest sharpie]

Brewers trade Aoki to the Royals for Will Smith, the pitcher not the actor.

Isn't that who the Mets were supposed to get for Ike Davis?

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10082763/milwaukee-brewers-trade-norichika-aoki-kansas-city-royals