BULLPEN 2013

[Vic Sage]

What does the bullpen look like as we approach ST?

CL: Frank Francisco
CL2/setup: Bobby Parnell
setup: Greg Burke / Jenry Mejia
situational RH: Elvin Ramirez/ Jeurys Famiglia / Burke / Mejia
situational LH: Josh Edgin
LH2: Robert Carson
spot starter/long reliever: Colin McHugh/ Jeremy Hefner / Famiglia / Mejia

non-roster invites:
Scott Atchison
Carlos Torres
Scott Rice
Tim Byrdak/L (dl)
LaTroy Hawkins/L
Pedro Feliciano/L
Aaron Laffey/L

FAs:
J.Rauch
R.Ramirez

Some other FAs still available:
Brian Wilson
J.Valverde
F.Rod
B.Jenks
B.Lyon

Edited February 1, 2013 by Guest

[Benjamin Grimm]

Adam Rubin wrote: Sandy Alderson, who expressed serious concern with Frank Francisco as his closer, is trying to remedy the situation. Alderson is pursuing Jose Valverde to compete -- or more likely unseat -- Francisco as closer, a baseball source told ESPNNewYork.com. The deal with Scott Boras over Valverde would have to be on the Mets' terms, though. That means it would probably be akin to the contract to which Shaun Marcum agreed -- $4 million base, with a similar amount in incentives based on games finished or saves, in Valverde's case.

[metirish]

Jose Valverde didn't paint himself in glory this past post-season, yet might still command $4 million?, crazy.

[Vic Sage]

$4m? Spending significant money on closers is dumb (particularly for a team that is not particularly close to the playoffs). Rinse. Repeat.
If you don't like Francisco, give Parnell and Edgin and Mejia closing opportunities.

Spend it on the OF, Sandy!

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Sizemore. Or the Cuban. Hell, I'll take Damon for $1M-plus-incentives.

HELL, I'll even take a Lowe/Dice-K/Wolf pu-pu platter.

[Guest vtmet]

at this point of the venture, I don't see the logic in spending money...there really isn't anything left out there that is really a match for the Mets in the OF; and fixing the bullpen with retread veterans isn't going to transform the Mets into strong WS contenders...even Bourne isn't a good match for the Mets...save the money and spend it near the trade deadline if we have a strong 1st few months of the season...

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I might be naive but between Gonzalez German Germen, and Elvin Ramirez, and Familia, etc etc we have enough good-ish arms to build a pen already.

Kinda funny in the meantime, Rauch and Ramirez still unemployed. Rauch sucked for a short while but altogether had a pretty good year as I recall. Ramirez not much but oddly I'd sooner re-employ him since relievers are so hard to figure.

[metsmarathon]

giving $4M to valverde would be an awful stupid thing to do. especially since it sure seems we have some decent cheap young bullpen arms whose ultimate utility would be far better off explored.

we know valverde isn't much of anything special. lets find out if some of our own guys are.

[Frayed Knot]

Yeah, given the choice of Rauch or Ramy-Ramy or Valverde at similar money, I'd probably take them in that order.

[bmfc1]

I think that Sandy's logic is that if he can get a reliever for below market value now, and that reliever has a successful first half, he can trade the reliever for a prospect to a team that is in contention. The flaws with this: 1) you might get stuck with someone that has a lousy first half or 2) not get the value you think you deserve in return so you've spent $4M on something that you didn't need.

[Edgy MD]

There is a wisdom in signing a reliever after a down year. We sure as hell bought into Rodriguez at the wrong time.

Problem with Valverde is that he lost a lot of strikeouts last year, suggesting it could be more than a down year.

[ashie62]

This is a likely a punt year..why spend it at all?

[Ceetar]

bmfc1 wrote: I think that Sandy's logic is that if he can get a reliever for below market value now, and that reliever has a successful first half, he can trade the reliever for a prospect to a team that is in contention. The flaws with this: 1) you might get stuck with someone that has a lousy first half or 2) not get the value you think you deserve in return so you've spent $4M on something that you didn't need.

Just like he swapped Francisco and Rauch last year.

It's unlikely, barring someone pulling a Fernando Rodney, that anyone's giving up much worthwhile for a reliever in July, no matter how much people scream and yell about it. This also applies to platoon outfielders. Any acquisitions are made for depth and "throw it at a wall and see what sticks" purposes.

Ashie62 wrote: This is a likely a punt year..why spend it at all?

Because until you spend it's always going to be a punt year. You do what you can.

[bmfc1]

Ceetar wrote: I think that Sandy's logic is that if he can get a reliever for below market value now, and that reliever has a successful first half, he can trade the reliever for a prospect to a team that is in contention. The flaws with this: 1) you might get stuck with someone that has a lousy first half or 2) not get the value you think you deserve in return so you've spent $4M on something that you didn't need. Just like he swapped Francisco and Rauch last year.

That's the 1st flaw. Each had a bad first half.

Ceetar wrote: Because until you spend it's always going to be a punt year. You do what you can.

That's true. I wish that Sandy agreed.

[metirish]

@AnthonyDiComo: Brandon Lyon close to a deal with #Mets, reports @JonHeymanCBS . That would probably complete their bullpen.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

As an opponent, when he's come in with a lead, Lyon has always-- always-- struck me as a guy-we-can-do-this-against. And signed after a performance spike (career-high 9.3 K/9, career-second-best 3.15 K/BB) as well?

We'll see about the cost, but... man.

[Vic Sage]

he'll be cheaper than Valverde, and it think he's comparable. But in either case, it's stupid.

[batmagadanleadoff]

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Well, yeah, except we're paying for dumpster access here.

[Edgy MD]

I don't get it. Is Brandon Lyon really trash?

I'm lost. The Mets are ripped for not spending money, but ripped also when they spend a little. Brandon Lyon makes them a target for getting a crappy player, but also because they intend to spend a few dimes when they shouldn't be spending any. And he's not crappy.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I don't get it either. I mean, if they give him $8 million for 2013, it's foolish, but if they get him cheap enough, then why not? There will be plenty of bullpen innings to go around this year, and guys like Edgin and Carson and Mejia will still get to show what they can (or can't) do. And Lyon is young enough that, if the Mets do return to contention in the next few years, he can be a part of that.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Lyon's not that bad. But the Mets'll be lucky to win 75 games next season, with or without Lyon. Might as well spend the money on a scoreboard that isn't an embarrassing eyesore.

[metirish]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Lyon's not that bad. But the Mets'll be lucky to win 75 games next season, with or without Lyon. Might as well spend the money on a scoreboard that isn't an embarrassing eyesore.

I bet that's different money.

[Vic Sage]

Edgy MD wrote: I don't get it. Is Brandon Lyon really trash? I'm lost. The Mets are ripped for not spending money, but ripped also when they spend a little. Brandon Lyon makes them a target for getting a crappy player, but also because they intend to spend a few dimes when they shouldn't be spending any. And he's not crappy.

I agree that Lyon isn't crappy. sometimes. sometimes he is.

But i don't think its too hard to understand the view that whatever remaining money the Mets have (if any) should not be spent on spare parts for the pen because (a) its one area where we have a bunch of strong young arms to fill those slots, and ( relief pitchers are an extremely unpredictable commodity, given the small sample sizes that there seasons consist of and the greater rate of injury pitchers have over hitters. If the're going to spend more money (and i hope they do), they would be better off getting an OFer, since (a) they need them more and have fewer in-house options, and ( they are more likely to get a more predictable bang for their buck.

In other words, if they had $4m burning a hole in their pocket, I'd just as soon they had spent it on Hairston's 400ab/20hr RHed bat/decent glove than on Valverde or Lyon's questionable arms as setup-men/backup closers.

[Edgy MD]

Everybody is crappy sometimes.

The argument hasn't seemed to be betwen spending on an outfielder or spending on a reliever, but why bother spending? -- whoever you sepnd it on is garbage anyway, and you're going to be a bad team no matter what.

That's not your argument, but you started this thread, and the concsensus seemed to be going there.

I'm glad you're confident in the arms at hand, but the team was 15th of 16 teams in the NL in bullpen ERA last year.

[Vic Sage]

predictions for starting bullpen:

CL1:Frank Francisco
CL2/setup:Bobby Parnell
setup/CL3: B. Lyon
situational RH:Mejia
situational LH1:Josh Edgin
LH2:Robert Carson
spot starter/long reliever:Colin McHugh

with RHers: S.Atchison /J.Famiglia /Elvin Ramirez/ Greg Burke / LaTroy Hawkins
and LHers: Andrew Laffey / P.Feliciano

I think Mejia will outpitch Burke, Ramirez and Famiglia, as well as non-roster guys Hawkins and Atchison, in ST. And Carson will keep his LH2 roster spot over non-rostered Laffey an Feliciano.
I think Gee will eventually take McHugh's slot, when Wheeler is brought up mid-season.

Atchison is a bit of a dark horse. He's got stuff, but is injury-prone and will cost a roster spot. But i wouldn't be surprised if they kept him and left Mejia in the minors for a while more.

[Vic Sage]

Edgy MD wrote: Everybody is crappy sometimes. The argument hasn't seemed to be betwen spending on an outfielder or spending on a reliever, but why bother spending? -- whoever you sepnd it on is garbage anyway, and you're going to be a bad team no matter what. That's not your argument, but you started this thread, and the concsensus seemed to be going there.

If i thought that any dollar the Mets didn't spend this year they would spend next year, or in upcoming seasons, then i might be persuaded to agree with the rabble on this topic. But i don't. If they don't spend it, it'll just go to the Pons pockets, or their lenders, and i have no interest in them easing their financial burden. I'd like to seem them crushed beneath the burden and forced to sell. but that's a topic for another day. I just think whatever they don't spend on this year's team is a lost opportunity. Knowing the restraints we're under, I'm just rooting for the maximum value for whatever dollars they do choose to spend. And putting it on bullpen arms is just about the single stupidest way of investing scarce dollars as i can think of.

[metirish]

Mejia reduced to a situational RH?, what's up with him these days?

[batmagadanleadoff]

Oh brother. Another Fuck the Wilpons thread this has turned into. And they don't deserve any of the criticism. Jeez, can't anybody here write a dozen posts about how the Mets are gonna sign a Justin Upton caliber baller?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]