A Whole 'Nother Argument (split from 8/30 IGT)

[Edgy MD]

But the argument isn't that he's a Hall of Famer. (And he's far more than a Hall of Famer.) Neither is it that he did enough.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: But the argument isn't that he's a Hall of Famer. (And he's far more than a Hall of Famer.) Neither is it that he did enough.

and the Mets have a history of retiring guys on value added beyond playing. Which is part of why I fall on the 'retire 17' side of the fence.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Ceetar wrote: Edgy DC wrote: But the argument isn't that he's a Hall of Famer. (And he's far more than a Hall of Famer.) Neither is it that he did enough. and the Mets have a history of retiring guys on value added beyond playing. Which is part of why I fall on the 'retire 17' side of the fence.

Who? They have retired one player number.

[Ceetar]

Swan Swan H wrote: Ceetar wrote: Edgy DC wrote: But the argument isn't that he's a Hall of Famer. (And he's far more than a Hall of Famer.) Neither is it that he did enough. and the Mets have a history of retiring guys on value added beyond playing. Which is part of why I fall on the 'retire 17' side of the fence. Who? They have retired one player number.

right. you don't think the other two's long legacy before the Mets had anything to do with retiring them?

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

I don't think Roberto Alomar and Willie Mays are comparable. We're talking possibly the best all-around player in the game.

And, I think of the Mets as the spiritual heirs of the Giants and Dodgers. Not that we would do something for all of their great players -- rotunda not withstanding -- but when there is a Mets connection...

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Ceetar wrote: Ceetar wrote: Edgy DC wrote: But the argument isn't that he's a Hall of Famer. (And he's far more than a Hall of Famer.) Neither is it that he did enough. and the Mets have a history of retiring guys on value added beyond playing. Which is part of why I fall on the 'retire 17' side of the fence. Who? They have retired one player number. right. you don't think the other two's long legacy before the Mets had anything to do with retiring them?

They were retired as managers, and Hodges in part due his untimely death. Even at that, it's three people, and none in twenty years. The Astros have had ten. If anything, the Mets have a history of not retiring numbers.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

I think it would be interesting if baseball followed the tradition of soccer by assigning numbers by position. This could be determined at the end of spring training once the team's regular starting lineup is determined.

The numbers would be assigned as follows:
2 -catcher
3 - first base
4 - second base
5 - third base
6 - shortstop
7 - left field
8 - center field
9 - right field

The pitcher's position number is 1 so all pitchers will be assigned numbers starting with 1. The starting rotation would be assigned numbers 11 through 15 with the ace getting 11, the #2 pitcher 12 and so on. 16 through 19 will be reserved for pitchers in the pen (perhaps saving 19 for the closer because he's the "9th inning guy").

The bench players and the rest of the bullpen would be assigned numbers starting with 2 from 20 to 29.

The number 1 and the number 10 would only be issued for special recognition with 1 going to a pitcher if he won the Cy Young Award in the previous season or some other notable accomplishment and the 10 reserved for a batter who lead the league in multiple categories in the previous season and/or won the MVP (American League teams may also want to issue #10 to the designated hitter, but I think it should be saved only for the best hitters).

As the season go along the numbers in the 30s can be issued to players called up from the minors and the numbers in the 40s issued to players acquired by trades, unless they take place of a player in the starting lineup in which case they would be issued the appropriate positional number.

[Frayed Knot]

My view on numbers 8, 17, & 24
1) either retire them or put them into circulation
2) put them into circulation

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

Frayed Knot wrote: My view on numbers 8, 17, & 24 1) either retire them or put them into circulation 2) put them into circulation

For the Mets, I like the idea of only issuing 24 to aging future hall-of-famers who join the team near the end of their careers. 8 and 17 should be in circulation. Carlos Baerga and Luis Lopez weren't that good.

[metsmarathon]

how about 20 is your backup catcher, 30 your backup 1b, 40 your backup 2b, so on and so forth. starters are in the teens, relievers end with 9 (19, 29, 39, 49, etc.) and then start filling in with -8's.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Guest

[Frayed Knot]

Mets � Willets Point wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: My view on numbers 8, 17, & 24 1) either retire them or put them into circulation 2) put them into circulation For the Mets, I like the idea of only issuing 24 to aging future hall-of-famers who join the team near the end of their careers. 8 and 17 should be in circulation. Carlos Baerga and Luis Lopez weren't that good.

I have no problem if they want to selectively circulate certain numbers, just as long as they actually do something with them.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Anybody know why Joan Payson didn't officially retire #24? Was she waiting for Mays' induction into the HOF? Payson didn't wait for Casey to be voted into the HOF before retiring #37. And the Payson family still owned the team in '79, when Mays was voted, and then inducted into Cooperstown. Did Joan's daughters bumble it up for Joan? (And Willie).

[G-Fafif]

I didn't realize there was a crippling shortage of uniform numbers. By all means, get 8 and 24 on somebody's back pronto!

[HahnSolo]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Anybody know why Joan Payson didn't officially retire #24? Was she waiting for Mays' induction into the HOF? Payson didn't wait for Casey to be voted into the HOF before retiring #37. And the Payson family still owned the team in '79, when Mays was voted, and then inducted into Cooperstown. Did Joan's daughters bumble it up for Joan? (And Willie).

Was that around the time that Bowie Kuhn banned him for his casino work? [Nope, I checked, that was in 1983 and was reinstated in 1985]. So not sure what ol' Joan was doing. But maybe the ban had something to do with the Wilpons not officially retiring it?

[Edgy MD]

Payson died in 1975, while Mays was still wearing the uniform as a coach. While I'm sure a few uniform numbers have been officially retired while a guy is still wearing it, it's certainly not the standard model (indeed, it's hardly necessary, as his very presence keeps the number reserved). And having transitioned seamlessly from player to coach, his use of the digits was uninterrupted.

Mays' banishment took place in 1979, at which point he left the Mets dugout --- to be replaced by Bob Gibson as Joe Torre's legend-in-residence. Mantle was cut dead in 1983.

The time to do it, if at all, was probably shortly after his banishment. But the outgoing and incoming ownership had more pressing matters than thumbing their noses at Bowie Kuhn, and the whole thing was probably underreported by the press, who had a hard enough time paying attention to the Mets at all.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I thought Mays and Mantle were banned at the same time?

[G-Fafif]

Evil Fucker Grant was running the show pre-Linda's one year at the helm. He was not a Mays fan (or a fan of anybody, one supposes) and would have done nothing to cement the late Mrs. Payson's wishes.

Mays and Mantle signed with Bally's separately but were reinstated by Ueberroth simultaneously. Best thing he ever did as commissioner.