Terry Watch

[Edgy MD]

Ashie's calling for his head --- and while Terry Collins looked very much like a place holder from the start, it's looking more every day like his place is growing unstable.

So I offer this thread, for opinions about Collins' employment, journalism to that effect, and speculation about his replacement.

If it went down today, it would be like

• Backman 3-2
  
• Geren 3-1
  
• Teufel 9-1
  
• Everybody Else 3-1

I kinda lost any hope for the guy's future that game in Miami that led to this post from Gwreck. I don't know if his moves and non-moves that evening demoralized his team, but it sure seemed so when they came out and lost by double digits the next day. He's looking more and more like the dead man walking that Howe and Manuel were the last two months of their tenures.

I sure ain't rooting against good Terry, but if they do see a future with Backman, it may behoove them to cut to him for the end of this season (like they did with Valentine) instead of wasting a chunk of the offseason on a farcical manager search. It can perhaps send Wright a message of renewed organizational energy entering any potential offseason contract talks.

[batmagadanleadoff]

The Mets haven't had a manager as good as Terry Collins in 10 years.

I'm not braggin' about this. I'm just sayin'.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: The Mets haven't had a manager as good as Terry Collins in 10 years. I'm not braggin' about this. I'm just sayin'.

/Guffaws once
//Sighs
///Sniffles, wipes away sad tear

[Edgy MD]

I hear ya.

I'm not banging the drums here, believe me. Just noting that I hear them in the distance.

[ashie62]

If you are going to lose 90 something gives..

Collins may be cheap enough to keep..

Geren is lifer stiff.

Teufel blew it on that dance with Duda.

How bout V? Hes about done up there.

[TransMonk]

Edgy DC wrote: Terry Collins looked very much like a place holder from the start...

batmagadanleadoff wrote: The Mets haven't had a manager as good as Terry Collins in 10 years.

Both very true statements. The Mets need Wright to stay. It may very well be his call, either directly or indirectly.

I would take Bobby V back in a split-second.

[ashie62]

It may be Wrights call..

within the Ryan budget of course.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I don't think moving Terry aside does anything for this club right now. He's here until the team is ready to pass on to the next leader and that day sure as heck ain't here and that sure as heck ain't his fault. I am disappointed that they've played so badly these second halves but he's got jack shit to work with. Baxter, Valdespin and Torres is the outfield for christ sakes.

This'll make Ceetar happy but I think if someone has to be sacrificed it'll be Warthen, mianly because he's pre-Sandy and they can hang the bullpen on him if they want, as wrong as that probably is. Bob Apodaca is looking for a job, he resigned from the Rockies recently, but I'd imagine the Mets try and promote whomever they deem most responsible for bringing along the Harveys and Wheelers and Mejias etc.

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: This'll make Ceetar happy but I think if someone has to be sacrificed it'll be Warthen, mianly because he's pre-Sandy and they can hang the bullpen on him if they want, as wrong as that probably is. Bob Apodaca is looking for a job, he resigned from the Rockies recently, but I'd imagine the Mets try and promote whomever they deem most responsible for bringing along the Harveys and Wheelers and Mejias etc.

My minds a blur, but it was either Howie or Gary that basically campaigned for Apodaca the other day. Technically he was suggesting Boston, but..

You've got (hopefully..?) a bunch of young arms coming up soon. You'd want to have the 'future' pitching coach in place earlier than the 'future' manager I'd think, as to nurture those arms. I think it's pretty hard to make a case Warthen's done anything special with nurturing new callups.

[Guest The Second Spitter]

• Backman 3-2

So I offer this thread, for opinions about Collins' employment, journalism to that effect, and speculation about his replacement. If it went down today, it would be like

Lord, please make this happen.

TransMonk wrote: I would take Bobby V back in a split-second.

[Edgy MD]

My guess is the Lord and Wally Backman ain't on the best of terms these days.

[metirish]

I think Backman would represent the kind of bold choice that Alderson seems too conservative to make.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I think Backman would represent the kind of bad choice that Alderson seems too smart to make.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

It was Howie discussing Apodaca going to Boston to be reunited with Bobby V.

I'm all for buying any 86 Met a drink but I'm tired of them getting jobs with the team. Wally to me seems like a higher-strung, less-self-aware version of Terry. I think not hiring Backman already illustrates boldness by Sandy.

Let's do something whacky and raid the Rays for Joe Maddon.

[TransMonk]

I would not prefer Backman over Terry.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

I'm with Lunchie and others on Collins. I don't see him as being the primary reason for the swoon, and making a change for the sake of making a change is not the way to run a team.

Wally can be the colorful third base coach who gets tossed from a game every few weeks for arguing a fair/foul call or a checked swing and keeps the dugout pumped up. I'm not sure he's got the proper alignment of marbles to be the boss. I could see him coaching under a calm demeanored sort like Terry Francona.

RE: pitching coach, Leo Mazzone is out there, but it may be telling that no one has offered him a job since the O's canned him in 2007.

[metirish]

I really like the Joe Madden suggestion, let's do it.

[Vic Sage]

scapegoating the manager (and believe me, i have no love for TC) is naught but a silly distraction at this point.
try scapegoating the OF, the bullpen, the catcher and 1bman. Better yet, try replacing them. Or as Ceetar would call turning over half the roster, lets make "adjustments".

[Ceetar]

Vic Sage wrote: scapegoating the manager (and believe me, i have no love for TC) is naught but a silly distraction at this point. try scapegoating the OF, the bullpen, the catcher and 1bman. Better yet, try replacing them. Or as Ceetar would call turning over half the roster, lets make "adjustments".

There's a balance between scapegoating the players and going with a grass is always greener approach where we assume the guy we don't have isn't going to come here and fail. Thole and Davis for instance, may very well outperform whoever they get next year.

My point about adjustments is that some of these guys need to stay, because they might succeed. You can't just replace them because you've decided they suck and won't get better. Some of them need to be replaced, others will be fine. grow/adjust/etc. Making the right choices on which is which is where the Mets can improve better than the other teams that are doing the same thing.

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: It was Howie discussing Apodaca going to Boston to be reunited with Bobby V. I'm all for buying any 86 Met a drink but I'm tired of them getting jobs with the team. Wally to me seems like a higher-strung, less-self-aware version of Terry. I think not hiring Backman already illustrates boldness by Sandy. Let's do something whacky and raid the Rays for Joe Maddon.

And 'firing' Mookie.

I agree with that Backman/Terry point though. I like the self-awareness in Terry. I know it's hard to evaluate this stuff generally though, so if the manager is not making me scream in frustrating constantly, I'm usually fine with assuming the Mets know better than me if he needs to be replaced.

Maddon's interesting though. I think I'd rather find the next Maddon though. Someone new/different? Ventura looked pretty good out of nowhere, that would've been fun. I think Howie was mentionion how Miguel Tejada wanted to manager immediately. That'd be another interesting one.

[Guest The Second Spitter]

I'd go for Maddon before any other manager in the league.

I'd also like to see a Warthen watch before a Terry watch.

[TransMonk]

How is there a situation that we would pursue Maddon? Per Cot's, he signed a 3 year extention ('13-'15) with TB earlier this year.

[Vic Sage]

there's NO situation, Monk. It's just so much hogwash.
Now if there's a possibility of a WILPON WATCH, sign me up! Lets get a Green Bay situation up in Willets Point, baby!

[Ceetar]

TransMonk wrote: How is there a situation that we would pursue Maddon? Per Cot's, he signed a 3 year extention ('13-'15) with TB earlier this year.

trade for him?

Vic Sage wrote: there's NO situation, Monk. It's just so much hogwash. Now if there's a possibility of a WILPON WATCH, sign me up! Lets get a Green Bay situation up in Willets Point, baby!

god no, have you seen some of these Mets fans? Don't want them pretending they're owners.

[Edgy MD]

Terry went into his "I'm looking for players who will play hard for me" spiel about 10 days ago. He did it last year, too. It basically amounts to "This year is hopeless, so play for next year."

My feeling is that players play hard for a manager who gives in on nothing --- who struggles to put them in the best position to win every day. That may mean benching popular guys who aren't getting it done. That may mean replacing a pinch hitter when the opposition changes pitchers, even if the pinch hitter hasn't gotten to the plate in a week. I like a manager who defines loyalty to the players as loyalty to winning.

Terry, coming in with a reputation as a guy who lost his clubhouse due to aloofness from his players, has overcompensated by running away from that position, and I worry that --- since the day of that post by Gwreck I cited above --- he's hit a tipping point as far as pandering to his players.

[HahnSolo]

Regarding Wally, much as I loved the guy and I would really like to see a ML team give him a shot, I worry that he will wear out his welcome pretty fast and in 2 years we'd be back looking to fill the position again.

Finding the next Maddon would be great. I'd like to hire a guy who we're not having a "watch" for in the middle of his second season, whoever that might be.

[duan]

I've never been big on Terry Collins, earlier on in the year I think I posted how I reckoned he's "all intensity" personality would lead one to tune out at some stage. Similarly it's not like he's proven he can manage a bullpen or a lineup.

However, I REALLY don't think Wally Backman is the answer. It might be 'entertaining' but having someone who looks to me to have all the ingredients of a sociopath in charge of a team of is not going to end well. I also think it'll be embarrassing to be around.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I was not being serious with the Maddon thing, just offering what I considered to be a better alternative to Wally in the (unlikely IMO) event Terry gets whacked. If it comes to that, I'd just as soon get Chip Hale back in the saddle.

Speaking of which, I'd fire Tim Teufel's ass already, he's made zero contribution to this group that I can tell and he sure as hell shouldn't be wearing No. 18.

No more 86 Mets!

[batmagadanleadoff]

And they put Teufel's mug on one of this year's tickets. WTF?

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: No more 86 Mets!

I dunno, sometimes i think just an audio feed of Keith and Ron talking from last night's game is all the pitching/hitting coach they need.