Outfield: Next?

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Speaking of getting claimed by the Astros, did F-Mart go north -- well, west -- with the club?

[Ceetar]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Speaking of getting claimed by the Astros, did F-Mart go north -- well, west -- with the club?

no, but he's 6/16 in the minors with a HR, 2 double and a walk.

[Edgy MD]

No, Fernando is currently playing left field for the Oklahoma City RedHawks. But he's hitting the ball well in his first four games.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

So let's say just for the sake of argument that Torres is eligible to come off the DL this weekend.

Would he be any better a leadoff man than Tejada?
Any better a power threat or gloveman than Nieuwenhuis?

How would you solve this "good problem to have"?

[Benjamin Grimm]

Keep Nieuwenhuis. Send Baxter down. Let Kirk play as often as possible, sometimes causing Bay to sit, sometimes Torres. Of course, if Nieuwenhuis starts to show that he doesn't belong, that plan can change.

[TransMonk]

I don't move Tejada from the leadoff position. Ruben may need to be removed from that spot later in the season if he falters, but if it ain't broke...

I honestly think with the way the team is playing, Torres may have to be useful off the bench as a PH and PR, but I don't fiddle with the lineup until there's a reason to make a change.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I'd Wally Pipp him. He's half a scrub and I didn't give a flying fuck when he limped off the field and onto the DL on opening day. I forgot he even exists with Tejada playing like an all-star and the Mets on pace to win 112 games. That this guy's even in the discussion for leadoff hitter is all depressing as hell. Let the current starters play themselves out of the lineup.

[Ceetar]

Well obviously Torres would have to produce, but I'd start him out as the 4th OF right now. RF defensive replacement and occasionally starting for the other two.

I'd probably bat him down in the order in that way, since Collins doesn't seem to like to disrupt the batting order. I might consider a Torres-Tejada-Wright-Ike-Bay-Duda-Murphy-Thole line up though. Or Torres-Tejada-Ike-Wright-Duda-Murphy-Bay?

he's not coming back this weekend though, so we've got probably at least twice as much data to work with when he is. If no outfielders are struggling, they can have him pitch middle relief for all it matters because we're probably winning.

[Edgy MD]

Would you see more utility in Torres coming off the bench than in Baxter?

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: Would you see more utility in Torres coming off the bench than in Baxter?

I think so. switch-hitter, better defense, more experience in CF.

On the other hand, Baxter's the only other lefty bat and maybe could provide some pinch-hitting pop, it's hard to tell with him as he doesn't exactly have a long major league resume.

[Edgy MD]

Torres bats both ways, so I don't see how Baxter's leftiness gives him an edge.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: Torres bats both ways, so I don't see how Baxter's leftiness gives him an edge.

well, maybe he's better at being a lefty than Torres who's splitting the baby?

I dunno, I guess it depends as it always has, if we're getting Torres more from 2010 than 2011.

I don't see how it's anyone but Andres, Kirk, or Mike, so I suspect I'd axe Mike as the 25th guy and not exactly showing himself to be indispensable.

[Edgy MD]

Bax has options, right?

[Benjamin Grimm]

I think so. I know that Torres will soon be eligible to be reinstated (by this weekend, I suppose) but is he close to being ready? I don't recall seeing any status updates on him. I suspect that many fans are as indifferent about it as I am.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Looks like it will be at least a couple of more weeks. This was posted a little after midnight last night:

Torres progressing cautiously after calf injury By Anthony DiComo / MLB.com | 04/17/12 12:15 AM ET ATLANTA -- The Mets continue to proceed cautiously with injured outfielder Andres Torres, who has not attempted to run since straining his left calf on Opening Day. "He's getting close," assistant general manager John Ricco said. "He's getting antsy. But we're really trying, based on the Spring Training experience, to hold him back." Ricco's comments were in reference to the final week of spring, when Torres battled back from an identical calf injury to break camp with the team. But he re-injured the muscle on Opening Day, and has not made much progress since. Working out Monday at the team's Spring Training complex in Port St. Lucie, Fla., Torres hit off a tee, took soft-toss swings and played catch, and is scheduled to perform the same routine on Tuesday. A return before May seems unlikely. Without him, the Mets have been proceeding with shortstop Ruben Tejada as their leadoff hitter. But Tejada has cooled somewhat after a torrid start, prompting manager Terry Collins to pencil his shortstop in for an off-day on Thursday. "We're trying to make sure that we keep our guys as fresh as we can," Collins said.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Yeah, the question was a hypothetical from the start.

[metsmarathon]

friggin' calf injuries.

[Frayed Knot]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: So let's say just for the sake of argument that Torres is eligible to come off the DL this weekend. Would he be any better a leadoff man than Tejada? Any better a power threat or gloveman than Nieuwenhuis? How would you solve this "good problem to have"?

One idea would be to install Torres in CF and slide Nieuwenhuis over to RF cuz it's not like Duda is burning things up to the point where he should be considered an untouchable incumbent.
Would help the overall 'D' too.

[ashie62]

Maybe Torres can be rehabbed until October.

[G-Fafif]

Torres hasn't exactly been Wally Pipped. More like Wally Pi'd. Wasn't in the lineup long enough for the whole Pipp.

[Edgy MD]

Ashie62 wrote: Maybe Torres can be rehabbed until October.

Seeing as how this outfield has been far from glorious without him, going .248 / .312 / .440 // .751, with a golem on defense in right, and far-from-flawless play in left and center, he's welcome back as soon as he is ready.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Between Tejada hitting like Angel Berroa's back-up and the Mets losing three out of four, all ugly, I can't wait for Torres to get back. Vamonos! There's a pennant to be won.

[Edgy MD]

Why do I get the feeling "hits like Angel Berroa's backup" is going to be a baseball expression that lasts into perpetuity?

[Benjamin Grimm]

Andy McCullough of the Star-Ledger weighs in on this topic.

Mets ponder rookie outfielder Kirk Nieuwenhuis' options after strong start Published: Thursday, April 19, 2012, 9:00 AM Updated: Thursday, April 19, 2012, 10:01 AM Andy McCullough/The Star-Ledger ATLANTA -- The best person to provide the necessary context on Mets rookie Kirk Nieuwenhuis� high-flying start would be, of course, Kirk Nieuwenhuis. "It�s been a week and a half, two weeks," he said after cracking three hits and scoring three runs in Wednesday's 14-6 loss to Atlanta. "It�s pretty early. You�ve got to put it all in perspective, keep your head down." Through 11 games, Nieuwenhuis is batting an eye-popping .375/.444/.531. He contributed a highlight-reel catch in Philadelphia over the weekend. He�s 24, a well-regarded prospect in the Mets system, and a player considered a potential cog in the team�s future. Of course, Nieuwenhuis does not profile as a future superstar. Two years ago, he hit .225/.295/.358 in 30 games at Triple-A Buffalo. He played in just 53 games last season due to shoulder surgery (though he did punch up a .908 OPS for the Bisons with a career-best .403 OBP). So what, then, do the Mets do with him when Andres Torres� strained calf heals? One sensible option: Use Torres as a fourth outfielder. One popular option with the fanbase: Use Nieuwenhuis as platoon player with Jason Bay in left field. The most likely option: Torres reclaims his job. Bay�s playing time stays the same. And Nieuwenhuis goes back to the International League for the time being. To address these scenarios in order: Torres would have value as a bench batter. His speed is an asset as a pinch-runner. But he plays an excellent center field, and manager Terry Collins would like more speed in the lineup. Plus, he�s played one game. One. Collins, one figures, would be unlikely to take a veteran�s job away after such a brief stint. Unless, of course, Nieuwenhuis keeps getting on base 44 percent of the time. The next option: Taking away Bay�s playing time would help defuse his $17 million option for 2014, which vests if he receives either 500 plate appearances in both 2012 and 2013 or 600 PA in 2013. Because there is so much time between now and the end of 2013, the team isn�t confronted with a ticking vesting-option-time-bomb � as they were last summer with closer Francisco Rodriguez. When I spoke with one team insider on the eve of the season, the official laughed off any immediate plans to take playing time away from Bay. Bay has a .717 OPS through 11 games. That�s nothing to write home about � but it is 18 points higher than his career-low OPS in 2011. Bay walked twice and went 1-for-3 on Sunday. He�s homered twice. This is progress, albeit in small steps. Of course, making sweeping statements about Jason Bay based on 11 games is as foolish as . . . making sweeping statements about Kirk Nieuwenhuis based on 11 games. That�s why the most likely option is the last one, in which the team upholds the status quo, and sends Nieuwenhuis down. Don�t worry. If he departs, he�ll come back.

Of course, the sweeping statements about Jason Bay cover much more than 11 games.

[Edgy MD]

Sure, but we all have a backstory. And they all do too.

The disappointing thing is Baxter's name never comes up in the article. I never understand why there's ever a conflict about playing time between Outfielder X and Outfielder Y when one of them comes off the disabled list and the other has more or less been getting the job done. There are three outfield positions and first base. If you have five candidates for those roles, good, here's surely enough at-bats for everybody that deserves them and fewer for the people who, along the way, show themselves to deserve them less.

[Benjamin Grimm]

The thing is, it Baxter were to go to Buffalo and Nieuwenhuis were to stay with the Mets, I'd want to see Kirk getting more playing time than Baxter has. If he's to stay, he'll have to steal playing time from somebody, otherwise he's better off in Buffalo.

[Edgy MD]

Sure, and as I said, with four roles to fill, there's plenty of time for everybody. If they all suggest some equal value, then they all can play 80% of the time.

[Frayed Knot]

McCullough also fails to even mention Lucas [9-for-46 w/15 Ks] Duda as one of the players in the mix.

[Edgy MD]

Day	1B	LF	CF	RF
1	Davis	Bay	Torres	Duda
2	Duda	Bay	Torres	Nieuwenhuis
3	Davis	Nieuwenhuis	Torres	Duda
4	Davis	Bay	Nieuwenhuis	Duda
5	Davis	Bay	Torres	Nieuwenhuis
Day	1B	LF	CF	RF
6	Davis	Bay	Torres	Duda
7	Duda	Bay	Torres	Nieuwenhuis
8	Davis	Nieuwenhuis	Torres	Duda
9	Davis	Bay	Nieuwenhuis	Duda
10	Davis	Bay	Torres	Nieuwenhuis

Play four days in five. Throw some occasional time to Hairston if you're feeling creaky. Everybody is rested through the year. Win a championship. Fend off adoring women.

[metsmarathon]

yeah, i don't know why that's so conceptually difficult...