The Kid

[ashie62]

You are correct. The ones close to me just sacrificed what was left of themselves to treatment. All believed almost right until hospice.

My younger brother is a cancer survivor and this just digs at me.

[MFS62]

My main memory of Gary was his picture on the cover of SI. He was in his Montreal uniform. The feature article was "Why the National League is Better", and Gary was one of the main reasons they cited. (I think I still have that issue somewhere in my house.)
RIP, Gary, you gave us many happy memories.

Later

[Met Hunter]

This is Keith Hernandez's take on Game 6. I think this is why we all loved Gary the player:

"He got us rolling, and I think that's very important to point out," he said. "I had a lot of clutch hits in my career. And I had a chance to do what he did, and I feel that I failed. But Gary got it done. He was the right guy for that situation. He was stronger than I was. I wasn't afraid of those situations. But he welcomed them. It wasn't just about ability. It was about his approach, his makeup. He wanted to be the hero. And you've got to have a player like that.

[metirish]

Met Hunter wrote: This is Keith Hernandez's take on Game 6. I think this is why we all loved Gary the player: "He got us rolling, and I think that's very important to point out," he said. "I had a lot of clutch hits in my career. And I had a chance to do what he did, and I feel that I failed. But Gary got it done. He was the right guy for that situation. He was stronger than I was. I wasn't afraid of those situations. But he welcomed them. It wasn't just about ability. It was about his approach, his makeup. He wanted to be the hero. And you've got to have a player like that.

wow, is that a recent take or historical?

[Frayed Knot]

Marty Noble chimes in ... of course.


And also a statistical analysis of his career and placement among all-time catchers from Baseball Prospectus

[Met Hunter]

metirish wrote: This is Keith Hernandez's take on Game 6. I think this is why we all loved Gary the player: "He got us rolling, and I think that's very important to point out," he said. "I had a lot of clutch hits in my career. And I had a chance to do what he did, and I feel that I failed. But Gary got it done. He was the right guy for that situation. He was stronger than I was. I wasn't afraid of those situations. But he welcomed them. It wasn't just about ability. It was about his approach, his makeup. He wanted to be the hero. And you've got to have a player like that. wow, is that a recent take or historical?

Recent. Got it off Mets.com. It may be as recent as yesterday.

[MFS62]

BP does numbers very well.
The BP article gave us a lot of numbers.
And if you are paying statistical tribute to a player, why did that writer have to say this?

For some reason, I always found him annoying, though I can�t really put my finger on why. It probably had something to do with his earnest, gung-ho attitude combined with the fact that I rooted against the �86 and �88 Mets as hard as any teams I ever rooted against.

Just seems [crossout]out of place[/crossout] inappropriate.

Later

[Frayed Knot]

I dunno, I guess it's on the order of: Even I, on the opposite side of the country and certainly not one of his fawning fan-boys, can still appreciate the player/person he was.

[Edgy MD]

Seriously, it's hardly the conclusion.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I've told this story before but the one time I met Gary Carter personally, I presented him with a copy of the MBTN book bookmarked to chapter 8.

He thanked me so sincerely and so warmly, and so enthusiastically ("I'm looking forward to reading this!!" -- every sentence came with two or more exclaimation points) it made me feel great and also weirded me out at the same time. Did he do that because that's the way he truly was; or was it because he thought that that's the way he should act to maintain his rep; or did he think that's what I wanted to hear? I think Noble gets to some of that in his remembrance: Carter was a guy who always tried to do what he thought was the right thing, and the right thing to him included stuff like maintaining an image. I think he paid a price for that on a personal level but his relentless drive to do things right on a big scale brought great joy to all of us.

The other thing I'll mention is, he was an athlete when it came to signing books and meeting people: The whole act of removing a book from the stack, looking up and meeting the next person in line, chatting momentarily, writing, and passing off and starting over was itself a kind of physical exercise for him.

What a fascinating character he was.

[Edgy MD]

I've in the past compared Paul McCartney to Tom Seaver. But there's a thread between Paul and Gary Carter. Both lost their mothers as pre-teens and were raised by doting single fathers, who sought to replace the lost maternal nurturing but delivered it with a grave manly ruggedness. The future John Paul II is another of this ilk.

All were formed in part by this tragedy. And though they expressed and spread great amounts of exuberant joy, they did it with a deadly sober seriousness. While they were perhaps surrounded with teammates who took fun in more reckless behavior, they knew how short life was, and how powerful the opportunity presented was, and how huge the stage. All elicited eyerolls from their colleagues in response to the simple pieties they seemingly represented, but all nonetheless had the game to get accepted into the coolest of clubs --- though none of them were cool.

And when systems and circumstances collided and there was nobody else in room willing to be a grownup when the time called for it, they all had the... whatever --- courage, arrogance, the gravity of their fathers --- to step up and lead those clubs.

[G-Fafif]

[stevejrogers]

Edgy DC wrote: I've in the past compared Paul McCartney to Tom Seaver. But there's a thread between Paul and Gary Carter. Both lost their mothers as pre-teens and were raised by doting single fathers, who sought to replace the lost maternal nurturing but delivered it with a grave manly ruggedness. The future John Paul II is another of this ilk. All were formed in part by this tragedy. And though they expressed and spread great amounts of exuberant joy, they did it with a deadly sober seriousness. While they were perhaps surrounded with teammates who took fun in more reckless behavior, they knew how short life was, and how powerful the opportunity presented was, and how huge the stage. All elicited eyerolls from their colleagues in response to the simple pieties they seemingly represented, but all nonetheless had the game to get accepted into the coolest of clubs --- though none of them were cool. And when systems and circumstances collided and there was nobody else in room willing to be a grownup when the time called for it, they all had the... whatever --- courage, arrogance, the gravity of their fathers --- to step up and lead those clubs.

Strangely enough the thought came to my mind last night that Hernandez and Carter were pretty much the Lennon-McCartney of that 1986 Mets team.

[Edgy MD]

The lefty-righty thing would be backwards but there's something there.

[stevejrogers]

Edgy DC wrote: The lefty-righty thing would be backwards but there's something there.

Heh, plus there was never a massive falling out that caused each to snipe at each other through very public channels...oh like songs.

[Edgy MD]

Not massive, but there certainly was a snipe or two.

[stevejrogers]

Edgy DC wrote: Not massive, but there certainly was a snipe or two.

True, but we aren't talking about "How Do You Sleep" versus "Too Many People" level of sniping or the idea that the hatchet was never fully buried before Carter's passing as I've seen that discussed on Beatle message boards, if John and Paul were still estranged and bitter enemies by 12/8/80.

[Edgy MD]

Yeah, and Keith didn't claim to be bigger than Jesus and Davey Johnson wasn't a closeted homosexual. It's a just a passing analogy, Esteban. Let it work for you as far as it'll work for you.

[Ceetar]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I really didn't think this would get me tearing up. I was wrong.

yeah. And I don't really even have any memories of him playing.

[G-Fafif]

Joe Klein in New York magazine, September 29, 1986:

Carter and Hernandez are the most accomplished players on the Mets and the dominant personalities, the twin poles about whom the team revolves, the princes of darkness and light. Their rivalry is a great understated fact of life on the ball club...

Link will take you to cover. Story begins on page 44.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I own this card somewhere. Rare to see Carter wearing another uni number than 8 -- 57! (he was born April 8 and married Feb. 8)

[G-Fafif]

Keith utterly broken up talking Kid with Francesa.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

Who was the 1986 Ringo and George?

[Benjamin Grimm]

Ed Hearn and Randy Niemann.

[Benjamin Grimm]

G-Fafif wrote: Keith utterly broken up talking Kid with Francesa.

Was Francesa boasting that he had predicted that Gary Carter would one day be dead?

[G-Fafif]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: G-Fafif wrote: Keith utterly broken up talking Kid with Francesa. Was Francesa boasting that he had predicted that Gary Carter would one day be dead?

Ooh...

I recall during the Piazza era Francesa and his erstwhile partner announced they were supposed to have Carter on but that Carter asked that they not discuss Piazza's throwing -- the potential move to first base was probably the controversy of the month at the time and Carter was working as a Met minor league instructor -- and the hosts haughtily told their listeners that no one tells them what they can't ask, so we won't be having Gary Carter on.

Jerks.

[Benjamin Grimm]

This from Lenny Dykstra, as quoted in the Daily News this morning:

�When I first came aboard, I think I was out drinking with Wally Backman,� Lenny Dykstra said. �We were on the road, and I said to Wally, �I�m going to wake up Carter.� I was mule-kicking his hotel door. The Kid was nice, never cussed. But he picked me up like a child, pinned me against the wall � �You ever do this again . . .� I saw the fire in his eyes, dude.

[Edgy MD]

And I'm thinking that the guy on the prison beat must've got that quote.

[Met Hunter]

For the record, Carter is the 60th Met player to die. That number has doubled in the 8 years since Tug became number 30.

[stevejrogers]

Mets � Willets Point wrote: Who was the 1986 Ringo and George?

Carter actually does/did fit the Harrison analog as well.

And come on, Mookie = Ringo! Or maybe Lenny/Wally in terms of destructive behavior.