City Agency Hats NOW!!!! (split from Mets Uni Changes)

[metirish]

seawolf17 wrote: Adam Rubin wrote: And the union rep, Josh Thole, was put in an awful position. He's 24 years old and really just was drafted to be player rep because no one else was interested. A veteran could have stood up in the clubhouse and told the team they're going ahead and doing this. But that leadership wasn't there. Holy fuck, that's a scathing indictment of this team. Nobody on this team has the compunction to stand up and be the player rep? Forget Wright and Reyes for a minute -- a guy like Byrdak or Capuano or Bay who's been around the league for a while, a senior voice? You hand that to a 24-year-old kid? Frig. I honestly don't know why I care about this team so much.

This, I know I was shocked when I read that thole was union rep, I believe Edgy was too.As Rubin explains it above it really looks terrible on the team.


I remember guys like Glavine , Traschel and Lieter took this job really seriously.

[seawolf17]

I know, in my heart, that these guys are spoiled brat rich kids who don't give a flying fuck about you or me. But we root for the laundry, because I remember being ten years old in 1986. And I remember being in the stands in Rochester in 1997 when the Red Wings won the IL title, and I want to do that at Citi Field someday now that I'm an adult. And I remember the Piazza wild pitch, and the Pratt home run, and all the moments that made me just go fucking bananas and made me feel like I was part of a winner, even though I know full well that I'm nothing to them. I'm not a season ticket holder, not a fan club member, just some schlub who collects baseball cards and wears a blue hat every day.

Ah, I don't even have the energy to finish my thought. I hate this crap, and it's so annoying that if they'd just said "eff it" and worn the damn caps and paid the fine or whatever, we would have stood up, as a fan base, and said YES, THANK YOU, METS. Instead we do this. Dammit dammit dammit. Eff David Wright, eff Josh Thole, eff the whole damn organization. Dammit.

[Frayed Knot]

Most union reps wind up being union reps because no one else wanted the job.
That part of it at least is nothing unusual.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Wright's comments in the Snooze today brought a tear to my eye. Asked if they considered wearing them without an OK he said

"of course not. MLB lays out the guidelines and it's up to us to follow them."

Good question-asking above Fyrhie

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Wright's comments in the Snooze today brought a tear to my eye. Asked if they considered wearing them without an OK he said "of course not. MLB lays out the guidelines and it's up to us to follow them." Good question-asking above Fyrhie

That's the only answer, and the correct one. Regardless of what you think he should've done, _Wright_ can't be actively talking about disobeying MLB.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Yes he can.

[ashie62]

"I will not wear the ribbon."

[Benjamin Grimm]

Of course he can.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Ceetar wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Wright's comments in the Snooze today brought a tear to my eye. Asked if they considered wearing them without an OK he said "of course not. MLB lays out the guidelines and it's up to us to follow them." Good question-asking above Fyrhie That's the only answer, and the correct one. Regardless of what you think he should've done, _Wright_ can't be actively talking about disobeying MLB.

What? Only Jeter can?

I do it almost every day.

[Ceetar]

you're not employed by them.

Jeter's an idiot and probably a cheater. But I'm not sure how/why he fits into this conversation.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Ceetar wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Wright's comments in the Snooze today brought a tear to my eye. Asked if they considered wearing them without an OK he said "of course not. MLB lays out the guidelines and it's up to us to follow them." Good question-asking above Fyrhie That's the only answer, and the correct one. Regardless of what you think he should've done, _Wright_ can't be actively talking about disobeying MLB.

Oh c'mon. Jeez, in the name of Curt Flood ferchrissakes. Fuck the Establishment.*


*Even though here, the anti-establishment is comprised of pampered and privileged multimillionaires.

[Guest themetfairy]

Centerfield wrote: David Newman gave me a call. To summarize: 1. The Mets are very proud of what they did. They executed their ceremony without a hitch. Officials at FDNY and NYPD all were thrilled, moved and called it perfect. 2. Hats are "immaterial". He quoted Terry Collins by saying "It's not what's on your head, it's what's in your heart." 3. They tried several times to get permission, they were denied, they complied. They are part of MLB and have to respect their rules. 4. They will not issue a press release. The topic is over. 5. They do lots of other great stuff, visiting hospitals, fire departments, some make press, some do not, and this is much more important than the hats. I told him that I respectfully disagree. The hats are a very important symbolic gesture. It would be in the organization's best interest to understand that. Calling the hats immaterial really shows a disconnect between the fans and the organization. He should understand by the buzz around this issue how important this is to many people. I wish he would read the quotes from Valentine and Zeile to see what this is about. A shame. I really came away with the feeling that he didn't get it.

Thanks for not letting him off the hook CF!

[Guest themetfairy]

Here's the thing - in a season in which we've had very little to be proud about, we could have been proud of the Mets on Sunday for continuously honoring the heroes of 9/11 by wearing the agency hats. But we were deprived of the opportunity to take some pride in our team, even for one night.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Ceetar wrote: you're not employed by them.

I openly discuss defying my employer, my government, and my church regularly. We're a free society and neither having a conscience nor revealing you have one are crimes. We all know the authorities aren't always right, and civil disobedience is a time-honored part of our culture. You don't like me as an example? How about Josh Thole? He openly discussed defying the ban. So did R.A. Dickey. The 2001 Mets took it beyond the discussion stage.

Ceetar wrote: Jeter's an idiot and probably a cheater. But I'm not sure how/why he fits into this conversation.

He apparently told MLB to stick their uniform stars up their collective asses.

[Guest Edgy DC]

2. Hats are "immaterial". He quoted Terry Collins by saying "It's not what's on your head, it's what's in your heart." 3. They tried several times to get permission, they were denied, they complied. They are part of MLB and have to respect their rules.

If (2) is true, why bother trying with (3)?

[metirish]

Tracksuit weighs in and says the outrage is "outsized" , the issue is silly but lays blame all over the place


Outrage over Mets not wearing caps of NYPD, FDNY, PAPD on 9/11 shows how pain of day still lingers

The National Football League spray-painted ribbons onto its fields. Baseball sewed flag patches onto its teams' hats. Video tributes were everywhere. Sports did its best on Sunday to wrap its 9/11 remembrances in glossy, sentimental and simplified packages. Honor the 10th anniversary, but make sure it goes down easily, so we can shake it off, enjoy the games and buy the licensed memorabilia. But Cap Flap at Citi Field, a story that grew legs and walked all the way to midweek, came roaring out of the darkness to provide the most fitting remembrance of all: It was disheartening, complex and irrational, just like the legacy of 9/11 itself. For all of its silliness, this hat issue cut deeply, and taught us about ourselves. Mistakes and overreactions by every party - Major League Baseball, Mets management, Mets players - showed how raw 9/11 remains in New York, and how we are still unable to deal with it cleanly. No one behaved well, but the outrage inspired by each piece of this story was outsized. To catalog the missteps: * Despite a desire to 1) create uniformity in its policies and 2) profit from the sale of game-worn 9/11 caps, MLB should have just let the Mets wear first responder hats during Sunday's game. For what it's worth, New Era, which manufactured the American flag hats used in all MLB games Sunday, said it would not have objected to the Mets wearing first responder hats, as the team so memorably did in 2001. "Whatever Major League Baseball decided, we would have supported that decision," New Era spokeswoman Dana Marciniak told the Daily News' Michael O'Keeffe Tuesday. It is difficult not to conclude that MLB, tempted by memorabilia money, made an odious calculation. MLB reps did not return calls for official comment Tuesday. * Mets management should have told its players to ignore the edict and do what they felt was right. There have been conflicting claims about potential fines that would have been levied on players and/or the team, but one suspects the amount would have been affordable for anyone wishing to stand on principle. * Some Mets veteran should have spared 24-year-old Josh Thole from acting as the face of the team on this issue just because he is the union representative. Thole conducted himself with with grace, but was in an unfair position. None of those offenses was surprising, or worthy of the attention and outrage they received. But that is where Cap Flap was instructive: It swallowed efforts to keep 9/11 tributes simple. It pounded us with an inconvenient truth - most of us are not ready to look back on an event that has not yet left us. The decade since those towers fell has brought economic and political gloom. It brought two wars. It brought a presidency that first represented racial breakthrough, and descended for many into disappointment. It brought unrelated, but still momentous, calamities such as the D.C. sniper, Katrina and 10% unemployment. The cloud of that day has not lifted, and we are not ready for simple retrospectives. We can try, but reality comes raging in. That is why this latest Mets controversy, though even weirder than K-RodGate or Walter ReedGate or New YorkerGate, is so telling - and so appropriate. At a time when many of us still change the channel rather than watch footage of those buildings falling, when we are tired from 10 years of worry about our country and nervous about 10 more - when all that is still happening, it makes sense that we would go crazy for a few days about a 9/11-related issue, because nothing related to those memories is trivial. Buy Mets Tickets Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2011/09/14/2011-09-14_cant_keep_911_under_hat.html#ixzz1Xw8ZlXfI

[HahnSolo]

Oh, Tracksuit...

For all of its silliness,

Silliness, really?

For what it's worth, New Era, which manufactured the American flag hats used in all MLB games Sunday, said it would not have objected to the Mets wearing first responder hats, as the team so memorably did in 2001.

That's the only real piece of new info I got out of this story. Good to know New Era at least has some sensibility.

It is difficult not to conclude that MLB, tempted by memorabilia money, made an odious calculation.

If it is in fact difficult to not conclude this, then I would hardly call the outrage "outsized."

There have been conflicting claims about potential fines that would have been levied on players and/or the team, but one suspects the amount would have been affordable for anyone wishing to stand on principle.

Then please get to the heart of the matter, and find out about the potential fines, don't just speculate that the amount would have been affordable.

because nothing related to those memories is trivial.

Then what is the point of this? Didn't you spend the whole column telling us that this is entirely overblown?

[Guest Edgy DC]

HahnSolo wrote: For what it's worth, New Era, which manufactured the American flag hats used in all MLB games Sunday, said it would not have objected to the Mets wearing first responder hats, as the team so memorably did in 2001. That's the only real piece of new info I got out of this story. Good to know New Era at least has some sensibility.

Or claims to. That's an easy position to claim after the fact.

HahnSolo wrote: There have been conflicting claims about potential fines that would have been levied on players and/or the team, but one suspects the amount would have been affordable for anyone wishing to stand on principle. Then please get to the heart of the matter, and find out about the potential fines, don't just speculate that the amount would have been affordable.

True. That's been my point, too. Can someone write a definitive piece here? Like so much of today's media, we get a shovelful of opinion for every teaspoon of fact.

HahnSolo wrote: because nothing related to those memories is trivial. Then what is the point of this? Didn't you spend the whole column telling us that this is entirely overblown?

Point, Solo.

[Guest Edgy DC]

The 2001 Mets record immediately after donning the hats: 5-0.

The 2011 Mets record immediately after forsaking the hats: 0-5.

Immaterial.

[metirish]

Upon reflection this squad doesn't deserve to wear the hats.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

metirish wrote: Upon reflection this squad doesn't deserve to wear the hats.

Really, I think this incident, particularly the accompanying flee from responsibility by everyone involved, served as a lesson in how incompetent and unaccountable their organization is, and began to reflect it on the field.

[Guest Edgy DC]

It's easy to draw connections that aren't there, but yeah.

[G-Fafif]

Also, Dick Cheney says we haven't been attacked since the Mets first wore those caps.

[batmagadanleadoff]

HahnSolo wrote: Oh, Tracksuit... For what it's worth, New Era, which manufactured the American flag hats used in all MLB games Sunday, said it would not have objected to the Mets wearing first responder hats, as the team so memorably did in 2001. That's the only real piece of new info I got out of this story. Good to know New Era at least has some sensibility.

I'm not convinced about the truthfulness of New Era's quote. This could be revisionist PR. What the quote probably does mean for sure, though --assuming that New Era has MLB's cap contract for next season-- is that the Mets will be permitted to wear the responder caps in 2012.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy DC wrote: Or claims to. That's an easy position to claim after the fact.

Yeah.

[HahnSolo]

You're both correct for pointing that out, of course.
I wanted to draw attention to it because it was the first I had heard anything from New Era on the subject.

[metirish]

I'm disappointed not to have heard from Alderson on this, unless I missed it his next comment will be his first.I'm disappointed because this is the sort of thing I thought he would have stood up for, ex marine and all that , it's like he has disappeared.

[HahnSolo]

metirish wrote: I'm disappointed not to have heard from Alderson on this, unless I missed it his next comment will be his first.I'm disappointed because this is the sort of thing I thought he would have stood up for, ex marine and all that , it's like he has disappeared.

Good point.

[Benjamin Grimm]

It seems like Sandy has, much like many fans, pretty much tuned out the Mets for the past couple of weeks.

Hopefully he'll start paying attention again in the offseason.

[batmagadanleadoff]

metirish wrote: I'm disappointed not to have heard from Alderson on this, unless I missed it his next comment will be his first.I'm disappointed because this is the sort of thing I thought he would have stood up for, ex marine and all that , it's like he has disappeared.

At this point, the Mets should just bury the issue and walk away from it. Which is what I think is happening. It's become so tangled up, so full of incompatible and irreconcilable statements, that no sane person would want to touch it. I don't know how Alderson could publicly address this issue in honest fashion without denigrating either Selig, Torre or the Wilpons.