Madoff's Curveball" by Jeffrey Toobin & other Wilpon stories

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy DC wrote: Being a dick certainly makes him look worse than being broke.

Those that have as much money as Fred has, or had as much money as Fred had, would rather be perceived as a dick than as broke, I guess. I think it's a given that they're all dicks anyway. Otherwise, they wouldn't have made all that money in the first place. Especially in Fred's business. They can trot out all the underlings and slaves in the world to say otherwise --- all the Larry Kings and Sandy Koufaxes -- but I doubt that Wilpon's the nice guy everyone seems to claim. The last thing they want to fess up to is that they can no longer afford what they once could. Anyway, I merely threw that out as a theory to consider and knock around a bit. I'm not hanging my hat on that one.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Yeah, I wouldn't. What really comes through is Fred's stunning lack of guile, especially when you consider they set the whole thing up as a means of telling a good story.

[Edgy MD]

Stunning lack of gule for Fred. Stunning surfeit of balls for Katz. Got it.

[seawolf17]

I thought it was Fred who claimed to have the balls.

[metirish]

David Waldstein for what it's worth thinks the comments were "TOTALLY calculated".

[ashie62]

One day, after a long fly out or two to right and a few days of Wilponian madness David Wright may go to Sandy and say.

"I'll make it easy for you, trade me!"

[metirish]

seawolf17 wrote: I thought it was Fred who claimed to have the balls.

no , no , Saul has the big balls , Fred has the big mouth.

[soupcan]

Ahhh, poor Fred.

I don't have a problem with his comments - Jose may in fact get Crawford money, but he won't deserve it and the team that gives it to him will most likely regret it. I'd be happy if the Mets negotiated in good faith with Jose, even if he ends up leaving. My problem is that I'm under the impression that they won't.

David Wright was becoming a superstar but so far it hasn't happened.

I feel for Fred. The general consensus is that he's a good guy to do business with and a good guy in general but I'm still rooting for Picard. New ownership is the only thing I can see that will turn the Mets around.

It's a given that Jose is gone -yes Ceetar, sorry to tell you that he did not sign a secret extension - and the spending, no matter what they say about all those contracts coming off the books - will not increase. The only hope in my mind is a new regime that realizes that a winner in this town may cost you money but will certainly make you money. Something the team in the Bronx fiigured out a while ago.

Jeff Wilpon is a joke with a bad haircut and Long-guy-land accent so thick it sounds like he should be making me a sandwich instead of playing with his jet plane models. Can't believe that he is the guy calling the shots.

Saul Katz will be played by Wallace Shawn in the movie.

[Ceetar]

It's roughly the farthest thing from a given that Reyes is gone.

I don't actually think he's signed an extension already, but depending on how long it takes to finalize the sale I imagine it could happen mid-season.

[Edgy MD]

Well, the farthest thing from a given is to have him signed.

I think discussing what constitutes a superstar is a red herring. What justifies Carl Crawford money is more of a meat-and-potatoes issue to me.

Meanwhile, Carl Crawford: .209 / .243 / .277 // .520. An OPS+ of 43.

The Mets: not the only team with problems.

[seawolf17]

soupcan wrote: Saul Katz will be played by Wallace Shawn in the movie.

Inconceivable!

[metirish]

yeah , no one deserves Carl Crawford money , especially Crawford. I bet if the Mets had traded for Wright Fred would be lauding him as a superstar, and that's what I don't like about that comment , maybe it's true and maybe not but he's your guy Fred.

[TransMonk]

Ceetar wrote: It's roughly the farthest thing from a given that Reyes is gone.

I think it is more likely that Jose is playing for another team next year than playing for the Mets.

Nothing in this article has or will change that likelihood, IMO.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: Well, the farthest thing from a given is to have him signed. I think discussing what constitutes a superstar is a red herring. What justifies Carl Crawford money is more of a meat-and-potatoes issue to me. Meanwhile, Carl Crawford: .209 / .243 / .277 // .520. An OPS+ of 43. The Mets: not the only team with problems.

This is basically why the actual content of the comments isn't really important. You don't see anybody out there saying Reyes will get more than Crawford do you? So Fred implying that his injury history, however exaggerated it may be, will probably keep him from the perceived maximum isn't hard to take.

Same with the 'superstar' designation. What does that mean? That Wright will get less than Pujols gets this year?

I'd say the farthest thing from a given that he won't be resigned is that it's still up in the air. When it really comes down to it though, I can't imagine Alderson would let him get away. They'd actually lose money and I don't see any indication that Alderson's intending on going to a "3-year we suck but got good prospects" plan.

[metirish]

I can't imagine Alderson would let him get away

I can , and easily too. I can't imagine Alderson giving Reyes the 6/7 it will take to keep him. I can see other teams giving it to him though.

[Edgy MD]

I can imagine a lot of things. The farthest thing from a given that he'll be elsewhere would be if he was dead or something. Knock wood.

But more seriously, I think what's important is that a guy losing control of an image-based business is so desperately off-message. I think it's obvious. And I don't know how Jay Horwitz works 90-hour weeks and yet this happens so frequently. Jay's retirement would mean a lot to this team. I fear he'd be dead in two weeks, however. Fred probably does also.

[TransMonk]

Ceetar wrote: I can't imagine Alderson would let him get away.

Why didn't Sandy sign him to an extention last offseason? Hell, why is he not signing him to an extention now that he has been the best (and most healthy) player on the team this season?

[G-Fafif]

Fred calls the FAN...sort of.

[Ceetar]

TransMonk wrote: Ceetar wrote: I can't imagine Alderson would let him get away. Why didn't Sandy sign him to an extention last offseason? Hell, why is he not signing him to an extention now that he has been the best (and most healthy) player on the team this season?

I thought it was foolish not to resign him last year, but Sandy hadn't been with the team. He knew he had the option, picked it up, and focused on all the other billion things he had to do. I can't blame him for wanting to see Reyes play and understand how valuable he is to this team and fanbase.

I don't know why he's not signing him yet. Waiting for closer to midseason? Waiting for the sale to go through (to solidify finances/budget for the next couple of years and have a clearer picture)? Leavig him out there as bait to get a real feel for what other GMs feel they'd be willing to part with in their organization? Waiting for a good summer day at home to announce it to try to pump up the desire to go to the game?

[metirish]

G-Fafif wrote: Fred calls the FAN...sort of.

Dying over here.

[Chad ochoseis]

G-Fafif wrote: Fred calls the FAN...sort of.

It took 4 1/2 years, but you've topped the October 15, 2006 entry. This is my new favorite FAFIF article ever.

[Frayed Knot]

his hope was a rope and he should have known ...
a terrible blow, but that's how it goes
and Freddie's in a corner now ...


ECgBXkil7YI

[Ceetar]

Chad Ochoseis wrote: G-Fafif wrote: Fred calls the FAN...sort of. It took 4 1/2 years, but you've topped the October 15, 2006 entry. This is my new favorite FAFIF article ever.

and Somers just used the 'getting ethnic' line in his monologue. spot on.

[ashie62]

Ceetar wrote: Maybe what Wilpon is trying to say is, there is no way Jose gets Crawford money, because he's already signed an extension that hasn't been announced and it's less than that. I don't think the Mets are doomed to mediocrity in payroll. We'll see I guess, what Alderson does around the deadline, and of course where the Mets are. I wonder if that would convince people? If they brought in someone 'expensive'? But the i believe this argument basically reaffirmed that the 200million goes to the team, but if they lose the lawsuit they'll have to sell.

I'd say Fred was just greasing the wheels for Reyes' exit, and enjoying it.

[batmagadanleadoff]

soupcan wrote: Ahhh, poor Fred.... The general consensus is that he's a good guy to do business with and a good guy in general ....

I'm so sick of reading those quotes. Let's ask Nelson Doubleday if Fred is such a great guy. Let's ask Nelson Doubleday if you can do business with Fred on a handshake alone. Let's ask all those Mets employees who were steered to Madoff's funds only after being screened for their lack of financial knowledge and barred from asking any questions about their investment if Fred is such a great guy.

[Frayed Knot]

Yeah, that 'Poor Nelson' bandwagon is going to have to leave without me.

[Edgy MD]

I'd loathe to make a paragon of virtue out of Nelson Doubleday either. Neither do I think him particularly victimized.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I'm not sayin' that Doubleday was a victim or a paragon of virtue. I didn't say any of that. But Nelson's my Exhibit A in the case against being able to do business with FW with a handshake alone.

[batmagadanleadoff]

"Dad, why can't we say that it was Omar, disguised as you,


that made all those controversial statements to Toobin?




"And if Omar doesn't go along with my plan, we'll fire him".

[Frayed Knot]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I'm not sayin' that Doubleday was a victim or a paragon of virtue. I didn't say any of that. But Nelson's my Exhibit A in the case against being able to do business with FW with a handshake alone.

How so?
When Doubleday the company sold the team to Doubleday the person a clause was triggered which allowed minority owner Wilpon to have right of first refusal to become an equal partner. I miss the part where the fact that Fred exercised that right makes him underhanded.
If Nelson didn't know about the clause perhaps he should have (sound familiar?) and whether he did or not is hardly Fred's problem.



And, yes, we get it, Jeff is a rich guy's son.