Pirates offseason

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Having a rough morning? Need a pick-me-up?

Do check out the #jerrymealssaysitssafe hashtag on Twitter, then.

Just saw a car w/ 1 headlight and gang members in it, I flashed my high beams at them cause #JerryMealsSaysItsSafe

[batmagadanleadoff]

Look on the bright side ... the Mets gained a game on the Pirates.

[Frayed Knot]

The sweep certainly fooled the Man: �I saw the tag, but he looked like he ol�d him and I called him safe for that. I looked at the replays and it appeared he might have got him on the shin area. I�m guessing he might have got him, but when I was out there when it happened I didn�t see a tag. �I just saw the glove sweep up. I didn�t see the glove hit his leg.�

The thing is, on a call like that where the throw beats the runner but six feet and the tag was certainly right there or maybe missed by a few millimeters you have to be damn near 100% sure he missed the tag before you call that he missed the tag. And not just because it's the 19th inning but especially because it's the 19th.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Very much agreed. Yeah, the catcher could have sold it better, but I'll give him .7% of the blame here. Teh throw beat the runner by a Canadian mile. The runner more or less quit on the play. You've got to specifically see a fistful of light between the glove and the runner. If there's ambiguity and you're not sure, you've got to side with the people who have the evidence on their side.

I wonder if he just had his judgment impaired by sleepiness.

[Frayed Knot]

Gwreck wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: No it won't. Exactly. And there's the problem. The umpires aren't going to get better without better accountability.

The umpire's union takes the same view as a lot of unions in that they put forth the idea that there's no difference among any of their employees; each one is exactly as competent as the next and only seniority should be used for benefit and pay differences.

[Frayed Knot]

The other thing about this play is that it gave the national media (in their brief moments between football signing orgasms) the excuse to tee off on baseball for "continuing to live in the dark ages" by not instantly expanding replay.
But since replay all comes down to the minute details in slow-motion, it's probable that this call wouldn't have been overturned anyway since you certainly couldn't prove the tag was ever made.

[Gwreck]

Frayed Knot wrote: you certainly couldn't prove the tag was ever made.

Really?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Yeah, I think the evidence is clear and conclusive.

[seawolf17]

Edgy DC wrote: Yeah, I think the evidence is clear and conclusive.

Disagree. Nobody had a better angle than that umpire, and it's not clear as to whether the glove actually touches his leg.

[HahnSolo]

seawolf17 wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Yeah, I think the evidence is clear and conclusive. Disagree. Nobody had a better angle than that umpire, and it's not clear as to whether the glove actually touches his leg.

I don't think the ump's angle was all that great to be able to make a call on a swipe tag. Seemed pretty clear to me that the catcher made contact as he was sweeping the glove across.

[seawolf17]

Neither of the two angles I saw made it "clear" of anything, unfortunately. The glove doesn't clearly bump into him, or change direction, or anything that would indicate (to me) obvious contact.

[metirish]

Should any ump be calling all 19 innings behind the plate?

[Guest Edgy DC]

The centerfield camera, third base camera, and the hight home plate camera all have similar angles and the benefit of slowing the play down, and he touched him in a profound a meaningful way. I don't see any other conclusion you can draw, particularly from the high third base shot.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2011_07_26_pitmlb_atlmlb_1&mode=recap_away&c_id=pit

Should any ump be calling all 19 innings behind the plate?

Great point. I've always felt a five-man rotation should be in place on each team, with the fifth guy, taking a day off from standing, doing scorekeeping, and only joining the field in the event of an injury, but perhaps, extra-inning help would be an appropriate assignment as well.

[Frayed Knot]

seawolf17 wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Yeah, I think the evidence is clear and conclusive. Disagree. Nobody had a better angle than that umpire, and it's not clear as to whether the glove actually touches his leg.

Yeah, I think it's one of those plays where he clearly looks out via real time speed, but the ump says he never saw the tag and so the job of replay is to see whether you can actually see glove hit leg (or wherever) in slo-mo and from every available angle.
And while I agree that he should have been called out, I think the casualness of the tag negates any hard evidence that he actually was tagged and that's what's going to be needed to overturn the result. By the same token if the call had gone the other way and the rules allowed the Braves to challenge the call (as some pundits are calling for on any and every potential scoring play) then I don't believe the replay showed enough to prove he wasn't either.

[dgwphotography]

seawolf17 wrote: Neither of the two angles I saw made it "clear" of anything, unfortunately. The glove doesn't clearly bump into him, or change direction, or anything that would indicate (to me) obvious contact.

I had the same reaction when I saw the replays. It reminds me of the Agee - Hundley play in 1969...

[Centerfield]

One thing the replay proves convincingly: Lugo thought he was out.

[Guest attgig]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Look on the bright side ... the Mets gained a game on the Pirates.

would be nice to pick up a game on the braves instead

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

If MLB publicly admits that the call was incorrect, it was probably incorrect.

Will Graves, AP Writer wrote: MLB acknowledges ump missed the call in #Bucs 19th inning loss to #Braves on Tuesday.

[Gwreck]

Here's the Official Statement.

Joe Torre wrote: Many swipe tags are not applied to the runner with solid contact, but the tag was applied and the game should have remained tied.

[metirish]

Gwreck wrote: Here's the Official Statement. Joe Torre wrote: Many swipe tags are not applied to the runner with solid contact, but the tag was applied and the game should have remained tied.

Joe sure likes tied games.

[Frayed Knot]

As Phil Mushnick pointed out in this morning's column (and as others, including me, have said many times in the past) IF replay does reverse that call, then what?

As noted:
- Proctor laid down the bunt then fell about two steps out of the box.
- Pittsburgh catcher makes the (he thought) tag but then stopped when he heard the safe call because the call effectively ends the game.

Was the catcher even going to throw to 1st? If so would it have been in time and on target? ... or rushed and heaved into RF?
Do the umps then assume a DP? ... do they weigh the probability of it occurring vs the probability of the ball hitting the runner or missing the target entirely? -- something which could end the game all over again as there's a new runner now on 2nd.

The point being that the call, as it's being made, affects what does (or doesn't) happen next and so it's not as simple as pretending that correcting the call puts the situation where it should have been in the first place.



And, of course, this is all assuming that the replay would have reversed the call in the first place, that there was some "discernible proof" that glove hit leg.

[Gwreck]

This is why replay is the red herring. The problem is, and remains, umpire quality control.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I do think there was discernable proof, but I'm not calling for replay, In fact, I think there's a lot better techhology availalbe to aide umpiring than digital video, stuff like contact sensors and telemetry, able to aide calls in real time, not after the fact.

And non-techological aides --- like putting umps on a five- or six-man rotation --- can ensure them breaks and protect them from being behind the plate for 19 innings.

[Frayed Knot]

Gwreck wrote: This is why replay is the red herring. The problem is, and remains, umpire quality control.

I agree.
Now all we have to do is convince those who see the solution to every missed call as:
- more replay is needed (but apparently more thought is not)
- MLB not putting in more replay like yesterday proves how stupid and backwards they are

I think much of the problem comes from the fact that those missed calls the pundits are crying about is the only baseball many of them ever see.