Our Daily Bobby

[Frayed Knot]

I'm not sure that it's money that GM Alderson objects to when it comes to managers (maybe the Wilpons would) so much as it is having one who sets his own philosophy or agenda for game time decisions that conflict with those he feels are correct.
Maybe their personalities would clash (I have no idea) but I don't see mgr Bobby being the type that would make him a non-starter in the eyes of Alderson.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'd also hate to think that the new GM would be intimidated by a strong manager. If he's that insecure then he's not the guy that I want GMing the Mets.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Stilll, it's understandable if he doesn't want a manager with the juice to ask for five mills per year and five years.

Personally, I think managers are woefully underpaid, relative to the players they lead. But Billy Beane seems to think he can swap 'em out whenever, and perhaps not over-committing to one is part of Alderson's philospohy.

[Frayed Knot]

Oakland's budget situation was very different too.

[Guest themetfairy]

I would think that Bobby is the one potential manager who could put fans back in the seats. People would buy tickets to see Bobby back in New York. I know I would.

He's the one manager whose salary could be offset by increased ticket sales.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I don't know if it'd be meaninful to Alderson, but it's a worthwhile point.

Among managerial candidates (using the term loosely), one could also build a sales campaign around Backman, Mookie Wilson, or Gary Carter. Probably Mazzilli too.

[Gwreck]

themetfairy wrote: I would think that Bobby is the one potential manager who could put fans back in the seats. People would buy tickets to see Bobby back in New York. I know I would.

I probably would too, but I have my doubts that it would be a significant difference for Valentine's presence alone. Aside from a marquee star (of which there are about a dozen in all of MLB), the only meaningful factor that will influence the Mets attendance in the next few years is won-lost record.

Now, does Valentine mean more wins than with a different manager? If so, sure, he might put butts-in-seats, but that would also mean he's the right person for the job independent of attendance factors.

[Valadius]

I had no idea that it was Robin Ventura's idea for Bobby to go back out in the glasses and the mustache. My opinion of him just soared.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Jon Heyman is reporting in Sports Illustrated that Valentine is the leading candidate for the Brewers. Brewers denying they have a lead candidate.

USA Today reports that they hope to hire somebody Monday or Tuesday.

[metirish]

Bobby will not be Brewers manager.......

Dare I dream a dream Susan Boyle?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Dream on.

[metirish]

Edgy DC wrote: Dream on.

That's Steven Tyler I do believe

[TransMonk]

You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

[Benjamin Grimm]

WHOA!

So, based on Frayed Knot's chart in the other thread, and the earlier failed courtships between Bobby and the Marlins (and the likelihood of Ron Washington's return to the Rangers) it looks like if Bobby is going to major league spring training as a manager next February, it will either be with the Pirates or the Mets.

I can't see him in Pittsburgh. We should find out within a week, I'd think, whether or not the Mets are interested.

[Frayed Knot]

TransMonk wrote: You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

When did Aerosmith cover that one?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

TransMonk wrote: You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

Can you put your hands in your head? Oh, no?

[soupcan]

Cross the highways of fantasy, help me to forget today's pain.

[G-Fafif]

When it comes to Bobby V, how long must I dream?

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Think Ninety-Nine and think, "Whee!"
But hold on tight and don't get all antsy
While staring at that vacancy
Dream a little dream of V

[Guest Edgy DC]

Tonight makes love to all your kind
Tomorrow's pickin' Valentines

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I'm not going to get too sentimental
'bout another stint with Valentine,
'cause I don't know if he's talking with somebody
I only know he isn't thine.

[soupcan]

Come home Bobby!

Brewers hire Roenicke as manager Posted: Wednesday, November 3, 2010 12:00 am Brewers hire Roenicke as skipper, source says The Milwaukee Brewers have hired Los Angeles Angels bench coach Ron Roenicke to be their new manager, a person with knowledge of the situation told The Associated Press on Tuesday. An announcement could come this week. Roenicke, 54, has been on the Angels' coaching staff for 11 seasons, including the past five as bench coach. He will replace Ken Macha, who was fired after two disappointing seasons.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: WHOA! So, based on Frayed Knot's chart in the other thread, and the earlier failed courtships between Bobby and the Marlins (and the likelihood of Ron Washington's return to the Rangers) it looks like if Bobby is going to major league spring training as a manager next February, it will either be with the Pirates or the Mets. I can't see him in Pittsburgh. We should find out within a week, I'd think, whether or not the Mets are interested.

Where's this chart? In the new skipper thread?

[TransMonk]

Hired

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Well, harumph.

Valentine is said to have had a bad parting with Mets owner Fred Wilpon, and one Mets executive said months ago that he believed Valentine would have a hurdle to clear to have a chance to get the Mets job. Now with Sandy Alderson in as the Mets' new GM, it appears Valentine's chances would be next to nil. Alderson is the mentor to Moneyball, and while associates expect him to seek some managerial experience, being that it's New York, they don't think he'll go for someone as strong-willed as Valentine (one of Moneyball's tenets is that the manager is seen as middle management, which might be part of the reason Bochy didn't last in San Diego too long after Anderson got there).

He also raises an interesting half-formed point about the invasive New York press creating a "damaged goods" vibe around "three ex-Mets managers with winning records," citing this as reasons why Bobby V, Willie and Jerry have gotten exactly one firm offer in the last 2-3 years.

[Guest Edgy DC]

The whole thing seems a little half-formed, though, doesn't it.

Strongly plausible, but...

[Guest Edgy DC]

Really, isn't it a little overbroad to describe Alderson as the "mentor to Moneyball"? He was a mentor to Billy Beane and an article about Beane was written and a subsequent book came out of that article called Moneyball. But it seems to be a stretch to suggest Alderson was trying to establish a rigid ideology with hard concrete tenets. He was trying to find a way to corner the market on undervalued assets after a new ownershipship group ordered him to slash payroll.

That led to a system --- and an evolving one that can be applied differently as circumstances warrant --- but not such an orthodox ideology as is implied there.

[Frayed Knot]

'Moneyball' continues to be both the most oft-cited and the most mis-cited book in sports history.
The idea that the club didn't want a manager with a separate and distinct philosophy from that of mgmt is quite different from the concept what they wanted was a soul-less and idea-less automaton.

As far as Bobby's parting with Fred, what I recall from the time was that he was upset that he was the lone one getting the ax and not Phillips instead/also. Whether he expressed that to Fred in some kind of screaming, cursing, 'a pox on you and all your ancestors' fashion on the way out the door is certainly possible although I don't remember such a rant becoming public. But, clearly, the main source of friction there was between Bobby & Stevie.

[metirish]

I distinctly remember a few years back both Bobby and the Wilpon's talked about any animosity being long in the past, it was at a charity event they both attended, IIRC it was a Valentine event.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Fair enough, Irish. But there's "I don't want to tear your face off of your face when I see a photo of you in the paper" in-the-past... and there's "I would hire you back without reservation, with a guaranteed contract, and at a higher rate if need be" in-the-past.

Frayed Knot wrote: 'Moneyball' continues to be both the most oft-cited and the most mis-cited book in sports history.

You know, you could make a really [crossout]boring[/crossout] fun tween-to-adult activity book out of erroneous Moneyball citations/guessing from each passage how little of the book the author's actually read; you could sell it in airport newsstands next to, like, baseball-themed Sudoku (hell, I've bought BP Annuals there).