What's Going Down?

[Guest Edgy DC]

The deafending quiet from on high the last couple of weeks --- save for a brief awkward joint announcement regarding Francisco Rodriguez --- during this period of weak and lackluster play only leaves me more unsatisfied. Something is brewing. Nothing explictly says that but tons of things implictly point to it. Plus, you know, things tend to happen after disappointing seasons.

So what? Who's going? Don't tell me what you want, please but rather what you think. Put a check next to anybody who is going to get it.

[RealityChuck]

Minyana, Manuel, and Johnson. Manuel because this is when you fire the manager. Minyana because new blood is needed. And Johnson because the team couldn't hit a pinata.

[metirish]

Minaya
Manuel
Johnson
Whartan

[Gwreck]

I want Manuel, Minaya and Howard gone.

But I suspect only Manuel, Johnson and Warthen will actually go.

[DocTee]

Why Warthen? Given injuries and the staff with which he works, isn't he doing well?

Lots of shutouts from that staff, and the bullpen mismanagement can't be blamed on him.

[Gwreck]

DocTee wrote: Why Warthen? Given injuries and the staff with which he works, isn't he doing well?

I don't know if he deserves to go, but I suspect they will clean house and fire most of the coaches and the manager as well.

[Zvon]

lol, up to 8 options.
This is so easy

[Guest The Second Spitter]

Gwreck wrote: DocTee wrote: Why Warthen? Given injuries and the staff with which he works, isn't he doing well? I don't know if he deserves to go, but I suspect they will clean house and fire most of the coaches and the manager as well.

Our exalted GM will make Warthen the fall guy for the Rolls-Royce of mop-up men they have in their bullpen. Warthen doesn't deserve to get boned, but one can make a stronger case for it than Peterson.

[Guest Number 6]

Warthen's the tricky one. If I had been told coming in to the season that both Perez and Maine would have contributed essentially nothing, I would have figured that the Mets would need something extraordinary and unexpected to be a 4-deep rotation. They got there, and some credit has to be given for that. But I doubt that Warthen had much to do with Dickey's success, as his nature is unique and oddball. Niese, recent struggles notwithstanding, has developed nicely. Pelfrey... who knows.

When it gets to pitching and batting coaches, it's difficult as a layman to interpret their influence, unless there's a real obvious impact one way or the other. Warthen's not in that obvious zone, which, to me, may be enough to dismiss him if you have a mind towards changing the overall organizational philosophy.

When the question is what you think will happen, you're asking me to get into the mind of those who make the decisions, rather than making an argument from my own perspective. I don't know what the org will do, and I don't know if I ever could. But, even though you've asked me not to speak from my own mind, I'm going to say that I'd can those four, and try to assemble a staff that can work with a unified plan, instead of hiring the guy who happens to be next in line on the day when the axe falls.

I'm not claiming to know what the "plan" should be, but I have a hard time believing that it consists of whatever we have on hand.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I'm not sure "deserving" factors into it-- I can't envision a scenario in which Manuel and Johnson are dismissed and Warthen stays.

Minaya gets reassigned, methinks-- same thing?

And whither Razor and Chip and Randy?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Number 6 wrote: When the question is what you think will happen, you're asking me to get into the mind of those who make the decisions, rather than making an argument from my own perspective. ]I don't know what the org will do, and I don't know if I ever could.

Well, yeah. But we're all at the same disadvantage. It's certainly a clairvoyance contest.

[MFS62]

I'm guessing Manuel and the coaches go and Omar gets moved to more of a player evaluation role.
Don't know enough about what the role is for those VPs listed.
And, who gets to fire the owner and his spawn?
There are a number of us who wish we were in that position.

Later

[bmfc1]

Hire the GM. Let him hire the manager. The manager hires his coaching staff.

Not the other way around or in another order. The GM works closely with the manager. The manager needs "his guys" on his staff. Top down.

[Valadius]

You forgot Razor Shines, who owes his job solely to being Jerry Manuel's buddy.

[HahnSolo]

Manuel and the coaches. I have a hunch Omar is coming back.

[metirish]

bmfc1 wrote: Hire the GM. Let him hire the manager. The manager hires his coaching staff. Not the other way around or in another order. The GM works closely with the manager. The manager needs "his guys" on his staff. Top down.

I like this but does it ever happen this way?

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

I think Manuel is gone, and HoJo reassigned as roving minor league something. Would not be stunned if Omar was moved, but he does have that contract.

[Zvon]

MFS62 wrote: And, who gets to fire the owner and his spawn? There are a number of us who wish we were in that position. Later

You know I do.

I went with Manuel and Ho-Jo because I think the odds are extremely good this is what will happen. I think they will do this just to address the obvious.

It occurred to me that usually the whole coaching staff goes but I really can't address that without knowing who's going to be hired as manager. If a more established and experienced manager is hired that could change up the whole coaching scene. If not I think Warthen and Hale get to stay. L8r Razor!

Lemme add I hope they both are reassigned within the organization. I think both are fine baseball people who could best serve us in another role.

[MFS62]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: .. and HoJo reassigned as roving minor league something.

Like what?

Your car isn't running well, and you take it to a mechanic.
After he's done, the car runs worse than ever.
Would you take your car back to that mechanic a few months later, even if the new symptoms are different than the first time?
Please let him fade peacefully into the night, or do "something else" for some other organization.

Later

[Guest Edgy DC]

Valadius wrote: You forgot Razor Shines, who owes his job solely to being Jerry Manuel's buddy.

No, I didn't. I just didn't include him.

[Zvon]

MFS62 wrote: metsguyinmichigan wrote: .. and HoJo reassigned as roving minor league something. Like what? Your car isn't running well, and you take it to a mechanic. After he's done, the car runs worse than ever. Would you take your car back to that mechanic a few months later, even if the new symptoms are different than the first time? Please let him fade peacefully into the night, or do "something else" for some other organization. Later

Interesting analogy but I don't think its suitable.
For a number of reasons I feel Ho-Jo should stay in this organization.
The main reason being he is one of those guys that the fans like to see around the team in some capacity.
That might be a weak reason but I think its important.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I don't get the analogy at all. Many instructors who've lost their major league job continue in the minors, or get re-assigned. HoJo himself was a first base coach before this. Is he now incapable of being a first-base coach?

I don't think anybody is being sent back to that mechanic/coach a few months later.

[Zvon]

Edgy DC wrote: I don't get the analogy at all. Many instructors who've lost their major league job continue in the minors, or get re-assigned. HoJo himself was a first base coach before this. Is he now incapable of being a first-base coach?

He was fine in that role. And as I have stated, I think Jerry was, and could be again, a fine bench coach.
More times than not it's probably the managers decision that he can't take that step backwards within the same organization,
but unless he is offered that option we will never know.
I think if it's Wally they go with they should keep these guys on.
Surround him with experienced people who know the players currently on the team.
It can only help.