Hey baby, it's the 4th of July IGT

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Ike says "Enough!"

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Now, to cook some big thick steaks and drink some ice cold beer.

[Zvon]

[smg58]

If I'm Omar, I'd have called up a 7th reliever the minute the game ended. Then again, if I were Omar I'd have done that a week ago.

I feel bad for Fernando Nieve. After being run into the ground the first month, Manuel appears to have forgotten that he exists.

I get the feeling that Frankie needs somebody getting in his face on a fairly regular basis to get optimum results. Preferably not himself, and preferably not after an embarrassing implosion, but whatever gets him mad out there is OK with me.

[Fman99]

Woo boy, that was fun. We cooked and I marinated (in beer).

[Guest Edgy DC]

This bullpen doesn't have the personnel to be as horribly mismanaged as it is.[/quote:33u9p8x6]
If it doesn't, then no bullpen does.

And I mos def don't think the problem is the number of available relievers.

[G-Fafif]

Turns out it was just a mechanical flaw with Frankie: The bullpen phone works too well.

[ashie62]

Woo boy, that was fun. We cooked and I marinated (in beer).[/quote:1tu6dwm4]

New Avatar, very grown up!

[Fman99]

Woo boy, that was fun. We cooked and I marinated (in beer).[/quote:1yw0amur]

New Avatar, very grown up![/quote:1yw0amur]

Thanks Ashie. They do grow up quickly.

[Fman99]

[Frayed Knot]

[batmagadanleadoff]

Head.

[Guest Number 6]

If it doesn't, then no bullpen does.[/quote:7gkbwqkn]

My point was that some bullpens have more or better resources that can probably make up for some amount of mismanagement. This bullpen, in my opinion, is of a middle-of-the-road quality and is managed exceedingly poorly.

And I mos def don't think the problem is the number of available relievers.[/quote:7gkbwqkn]

You mean it's not a roster-construction thing? If so, I agree. There are enough guys in the 'pen, but the few high quality resources are being, at best, ineffectively deployed, and at worst, run into the ground. Other potential resources are largely ignored. It's Torre-esque.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Oh, I understand your point, but I really think more of our resources, and I think that the Reds nasty boys bullpen would flounder under this use.

There are a few competing values that totally handcuff Jerry.

1) He seemingly loathes to use anyone except the guys he most trusts in close games.

2) He seemingly defines close games as anywhere from down by two to up by four (or up up by five with two runners on base). So when he finds the guys he trusts, he deploys them almost every day until they blow his trust.

3) He's afraid of using almost anybody for more than one inning, except perhaps a guy mopping up a blowout. Perhaps.

4) This again forces him to go to other pitchers daily.

5) He saves his shiny closer for one -inning save situations. This values the leverage of a three run lead with the basesx empty and one-three outs to go above that of tie. This is mathematically out there.

6) This again forces him to go to other pitchers daily.

7) He really never establishes the structure of his bullpen with guys who you look to for higher-leverage effectiveness on one end and guys you look to for longer appearances on the other, with two or three gradations in betweeen. It's pretty much "guys I trust" and "guys I don't." There obviously should be some evolution in the status of these guys as the season progresses, but with Jerry and those two categories, the evolution is daily and unstable.

8) The obsesson with the "eighth-inning guy," the "seventh-inning guy," and such is just such a shallow grasp. You need to look to these guys according to the leverage of the situation. The most desperate sitations may occur in the seventh. The most casual ones may occur in the ninth.

9) That thinking again feeds the thinking in number (3), and leads guys to one-inning (or shorter) appearances.

10) That thinking feeds the thinking in number (2), and leads guys to too frequent apperances.

I tell you, no bullpen could flourish in these circumstances.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I don't necessarily have a problem with Jerry using "the guys he trusts" because, in essence, that's what every manager does. Whether Jerry is trusting the right guys, though, is another question.

My biggest peeve is that K-Rod is being used almost exclusively in save situations. I get the sense that K-Rod's primary function is to accumulate saves rather than to put out the hottest and most dangerous fires. This is fine by me so long as the hottest fires happen to occur in save situations. But the two conditions (saves and fires) don't always overlap. K-Rod's misuse is creating a terrible domino reaction that's affecting the use of the other relievers.

[Guest Edgy DC]

My issue is that "guys I trust" needs to be more nuanced and graded, rather than black and white.

And the close games (anywhere from down two to up four) needs to be more nuanced and graded, rather than black and white.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

I agree with Edgy, Manuel needs to learn the shades of gray. For example, Manuel will go to Feliciano to face a left hander almost regardless of the score. It doesn't seem to matter whether the Mets trail by 2 runs, are tied, or up by 3 runs.

[Zvon]

K-Rod's misuse is creating a terrible domino reaction that's affecting the use of the other relievers.[/quote:3swxwcsj]

This strikes a seriously resonant chord with me.
And I wouldn't say misuse.
But I get this feeling that K-Rod is the center of that universe and everything is done around him.
And maybe that's as it should be, these days.
I dunno.
I personally don't think so.

But I'm old school where the likes of a Tug McGraw, a guy who was ready to do anything, put out any fire, whether it was a brush fire, or a blazing inferno, was an asset to a team far more than a guy who was put on a shelf and taken down for an inning.

[Guest Number 6]

I tell you, no bullpen could flourish in these circumstances.[/quote:kh0eyt5i]

I agree. I think there are degrees to that, but it's mostly semantics. Good talent can often cover up for strategic mistakes, but as you suggest, only to a point. And that was a really great, head-nodding run-down of Jerry's bullpen (mis)management, to the point where it might be good to call out numbers in the future.

I would also add that his "trust," and the desire to give guys innings-long roles, can often overwhelm good situational usage, especially in the case of Feliciano. It is playing with fire to line Pedro up to pitch to multiple righties in an inning, or in high-leverage situations. He may argue that his options are limited, but again, the counter-argument is that he's artificially limiting his options.