Old Skool 'Pool

[Guest Edgy DC]

New to themetfairy's family collection is this Kranepool autographed photo of him presenting Roberto Clemente with his 3,000th, and ultimate, hit:



Very nice.

Was Three Rivers orignally a natural surface park?

[HahnSolo]

Awesome photo.

Three Rivers was always astroturf. That is definitely the Three Rivers outfield fence.

I posted a question about this on TMF's facebook page. Clemente's final hit was a double (confirmed by Retrosheet). Doesn't it appear that Clemente is standing on first base? Or is that not the first base line in the foreground?

I can't think of any other reason for Eddie to be handing the ball to Clemente, other than for his 3000th hit. But if he's on first base, it's not that hit. And if it is his 3000th hit, and he's on second base, why would the first baseman be handing him the ball? Somebody crank up the Mystery Machine.

[Diamond Dad]

It's an interesting mystery. Kranepool is certainly playing defense (he's got a glove on) and Clemente looks to be "on base." It could be that after the 3000th hit there was a stoppage of play and if the ball was thrown back into the infield Kranepool may well have been the cut-off man and had the ball, so Clemente could have walked over to first base to receive the ball (along with a standing ovation and perhaps some other ceremony). But, it does look for all the world like he's standing safe at first base with his foot on the bag.

If only there were video of the event available on you-tube . . .

DD

[HahnSolo]

This photo:


Purports to show the ump handing Clemente the ball following #3000. The uniform does seem to be a match from the Kranepool photo, though. It's a mystery wrapped in an enigma.

[Guest Edgy DC]

HahnSolo wrote: Three Rivers was always astroturf.

According to Wikipedia, that's a surface called Tartanturf, which covered the playing field from 1970-1982, and was repelaced by Astroturf. I'm not sure how meaningful the difference is, and it's hard to tell in the graininess of the b/w photo, but it looked like a higher cut to the blade than the shaved surface I recall, as well as more dirt around them than just a sliding pit. There also seemed to be daylight under Clemente's foot which suggested to me cleated shoes.

As for the shadow above, that looks like an African-descended player in centerfield (though it may just be a shadow), walking with Willie Mays' late-career world-weary gait. The very white Dave Schneck should be our centerfielder.

OE: He also appears to be searching for chew in his pockets.

[Guest Edgy DC]

No much chance that's Willie. He was out of the lineup after September 7, save for one game in Chicago.

[HahnSolo]

Yeah, I meant Artificial Turf...I can never tell the difference.

Possibly that's Cleon heading back to left field?

[Met Hunter]

The ump appears to be HOFer Doug Harvey, who was the second base ump in that game.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

HahnSolo wrote: Yeah, I meant Artificial Turf...I can never tell the difference. Possibly that's Cleon heading back to left field?

Nah. Milner?

[metsmarathon]

could it be that kranepool is retrieving the ball from clemente, to deliver it to his clubhouse or first base coach?

[Farmer Ted]

Bobby C didn't seem too thrilled to be getting anything from Ed.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Farmer Ted wrote: Bobby C didn't seem too thrilled to be getting anything from Ed.

"See, Bob? I signed it, 'Always remember this day-- keep in touch! --Eddie.' So's you can remember, got it?"

[Diamond Dad]

There is a smudge/spot on Clemente's hat in both pictures, and the uniform seems to be the same in both. It's possible that somebody posed Kranepool and Clemente for that picture either right after the actual event, or later in the game (or even after the game) at first base.

It does seem from facial expressions like neither player is very excited by the moment!

[Guest Edgy DC]

it looks like a miserable day, with the first place Buccos playing out the string, everybody in long sleeves and the ump turning his collar up.

A whopping 13,117 fans on hand to see the first-place Pirates and their history-making hall-of-Fame-bound righfielder.

[Diamond Dad]

This picture turns up everywhere from that day -- Clemente doffing his cap to the crowd from second base

OE -- someday I'll learn how to embed images in posts . . .

[Guest themetfairy]

Diamond Dad wrote: This picture turns up everywhere from that day -- Clemente doffing his cap to the crowd from second base OE -- someday I'll learn how to embed images in posts . . .

Send me the link and I'll take care of it.

[soupcan]

Check it though - little turtleneck peeking out from Clemente in the first & second photos. Not so in the Kranepool pic.

[Benjamin Grimm]

This kind of stuff is fun. It's like baseball archeology, or something.

[Farmer Ted]

Someone needs to call Ed.

[Diamond Dad]

You're right about the black shirt under the uniform. Hmm. Could the picture have been a re-staging the next day?

Perhaps we need to find Mr. Kranepool and ask him . . .

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: This kind of stuff is fun. It's like baseball archeology, or something.

"That ball doesn't belong to you-- it belongs in a MUSEUM!"

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I think this may have been Clemente's 2999th career hit. Kranepool is saying, "Take it, Bobby. You never know if you'll get killed in plane crash or something and never get another opportunity."

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

No other hits in the Met series-- just a two-bagger named "3000."

2000 was against the Cubs, years back.

1000's just right out.

OE: ACTUALLY, no other hits against the Mets that year in Pittsburgh; he was out of the lineup during the other trips.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Matlack is a minor league instructor for the Tigers, and I believe he's based in Lakeland. I looked for an e-mail address somewhere in their site but failed. But he might know something about it.

[G-Fafif]

"Now that we've picked you off first, Clemente, I dare you to try to pull the ball out of my hand. Can't do it, can ya? METS RULE!"

[Guest Edgy DC]

You're a credentialed reporter. Just call the clubhouse.

[Met Hunter]

A great moment spoiled by great detective work. Eddie was probably getting Roberto to sign it for him with the hope that he could someday, somehow, figure a way to sell it from his den.

[Guest themetfairy]

A posed moment explains just how perfectly positioned the ball is between their hands.

[nymr83]

The uniform does seem to be a match from the Kranepool photo

it looks like he's wearing a different hat or maybe a batting helmet in the umpire photo, but not in the kranepool photo. the brim isn't a different shade than the top of the hat in that photo as it is in the other.

[Guest themetfairy]

I was just watching the 1978 Mets Weekly on DVR. FWIW, after Pete Rose broke Tommy Holmes' hits record, there were a lot of people posing for pix with Pete and that ball.