Galarraga and Joyce (split from OOTS)

[metsmarathon]

mistakes are great - ask the gulf coast!

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well, that was a mistake mistake.

Wait, what?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Edgy DC wrote: Well, that was a mistake mistake. Wait, what?

Seriously, the "well, that's a part of the game" argument can only take you so far. So were a lot of things until they weren't. Some things that are "time-honored" are eventually dishonered by justice to a far greater degree.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

I wonder how many home run calls have been overturned because of instant replay?

I don't have a problem with instant replay on a short leash. I don't want them using it on every close play. And absolutely not on balls and strikes. But I can see some situations.

On the down side, some of the drama would be gone, as well as the instant reactions. We wouldn't have the iconic scene of Willie Mays on his knees yelling to Augie Donatelli in Game 2 that Harrelson was safe, we'd have Yogi ambling over to Donatelli and telling him to go look at the tape.

[Chad ochoseis]

metsmarathon wrote: mistakes are great - ask the gulf coast!

This says a lot about why I have mixed feelings about instant replay. Part of the fun of sports is that it's not serious - a monumental mistake means only that some pitcher gets jerked out of the honor that comes with achieving what's basically a statistical anomaly. Nobody dies, and major bodies of water aren't ravaged. Adding replay to the mix is a way of saying that an ump's call is so important that we need to employ the latest advanced technologies to be sure that it's absolutely perfect, because a baseball game is just too important to screw up.

That being said, I can see the merit in getting a call right if it can be done without too much hassle. The 30-second rule sounds reasonable. Maybe add to it that at least one of the on-field umps has to agree to review the call, just to keep the creatively intelligent weenies of the game (Tony LaRussa, I'm looking at you) from using reviews as a device to slow the game down for other purposes.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Nobody dies, but even the slightest (even symbolic) injustice can foment the sort of resentments that can lead to violence. So justice is always an ideal worth pursuing, even in the smallest matter. Certainly a handful of futbol refs have been victimized. Just keep your sense of perspective, and any changes you choose to make should be deliberate and probably gradual. Don't, you know, sprint toward it and bungle it beyond recognition.

Howie is making the argument that using electronics to improve umping in the future is somehow pointless in the future because you can't undo the umping of the past. "What are you gonna do? Call up the 1985 Cards and 1985 tell them to restart the World Series from the point of Don Denkinger's blown call?" Very disappointing logic.

[metsmarathon]

i don't think you should use instant replay to call balls and strikes. granted, i don't think you need to use a human for that, at all.

some ball/strike calls might even come quicker.

with instant replay, we also wouldn't have that wonderful moment where a young jeffrey maier set into motion perhaps the greatest crock of baloney we've been privvy to for the past fifteen years. with instant replay, derek jeter wouldn't have an edge. he'd just have a long fly ball.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Davey Johnson maybe wins his second World Championship and goes on to the Hall of Fame.

[G-Fafif]

Edgy DC wrote: ...any changes you choose to make should be deliberate and probably gradual.

Incrementalism is indeed the key. I wish that every time the subject of instant replay comes up, the pundit class didn't immediately skip to Worst Case Scenario Step 18 -- Robots Eat Our Young or do a retromock a la "why don't ya dig up Fred Merkle?" Slopes are only as slippery as we choose to make them.

Hone it, fine-tune it, test it, think it through. But do something, not just because you can, but because there is the distinct possibility that the quality of the game experience will be improved on a net basis. I can stand a delay of a couple of minutes for a correct ruling if it means my team (or accurate accounting) isn't jobbed.

[Zvon]

Zvon wrote: I don't think we need replay for things like this. Just better umps. (Leyland said he was a great ump tho,...I wouldn't know)

I must stand corrected because I have read many things about Joyce the ump since
this happened.
I learned what kind of man he is the rather quickly.
Over this week I have learned he is one of the best umps in the game.

After reading what former umps Springstead and Denkinger thought in the Post and the Daily News,
I am starting to bend on this replay business a little bit.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Yeah, somewhat overlooked is that a bad call can have two direct victims --- the player who got jobbed, and the ump who everybody knows was wrong but has his mistake locked in for eternity, no matter how desperately he subsequenlty wants and needs to be over-ruled.

[Zvon]

Found this in my files.

So I change my mind again.
He sucks.