All-Time National League East Team: The Shortstop

[G-Fafif]

You don't necessarily have to be a Wizard to pick two National League East shortstops...

[Guest Kong76]

Ozzie and a write in for Ernie Banks.

[nymr83]

i went with defense, taking Dunston and the wizard

[G-Fafif]

Kong76 wrote: Ozzie and a write in for Ernie Banks.

Banks listed among the 1B in deference to that being the position he played while the Cubs were an N.L. East team ('69 to '93).

[Guest Kong76]

Saw that afterward and was also a little confused forgetting the years
thing about east and no east and west in my rain delayed haste to vote
and I know Banks played a lot less SS than 1B but he's like in the top ten
SS in The Baseball Abstract and I was thinking and not thinking at same time.

(how's that for a run on)

[batmagadanleadoff]

Ernie Banks, limited to his NL East record, sucked. 1969 was the last year Banks was an everyday starter. He appeared in 72 games in 1970 and 39 games in 1971, his final season -- and pre Mendoza line sub Mendoza-line at that.

[Guest Kong76]

Yeah, I already admitted I messed up ... thanks for piling on.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I'm kind of wishing these choices did not include contemporary players: It's hard not to cast a vote for Hanley Ramirez.

[G-Fafif]

Kong76 wrote: Saw that afterward and was also a little confused forgetting the years thing about east and no east and west in my rain delayed haste to vote and I know Banks played a lot less SS than 1B but he's like in the top ten SS in The Baseball Abstract and I was thinking and not thinking at same time. (how's that for a run on)

It's outstanding!

[batmagadanleadoff]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Ernie Banks, limited to his NL East record, sucked. 1969 was the last year Banks was an everyday starter. He appeared in 72 games in 1970 and 39 games in 1971, his final season -- and pre Mendoza line sub Mendoza-line at that.

Kong76 wrote: Yeah, I already admitted I messed up ... thanks for piling on.

I messed up, too. My message should've been posted in the First Base thread.

[G-Fafif]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I'm kind of wishing these choices did not include contemporary players: It's hard not to cast a vote for Hanley Ramirez.

I was tempted to go with Hanley after reading his SI profile this week. Hard to eliminate the contemporary, though, given that the contemporary includes the likes of Larry Jones at third and Chase Utley at second.

[metsmarathon]

top ten, in terms of nleasterly WAR, as per fangraphs

62.1 Ozzie Smith, STL
35.3 Jimmy Rollins, PHI
27.4 Gene Alley, PIT
25.9 Hanley Ramirez, FLA
24.2 Buddy Harrelson, NYM/PHI
23.5 Jay Bell, PIT/NYM
22.9 Jose Reyes, NYM
22.7 Larry Bowa, PHI/CHI/NYM
17.8 Rafael Furcal, ATL
17.4 Garry Templeton, STL

[G-Fafif]

metsmarathon wrote: top ten, in terms of nleasterly WAR, as per fangraphs 62.1 Ozzie Smith, STL 35.3 Jimmy Rollins, PHI 27.4 Gene Alley, PIT 25.9 Hanley Ramirez, FLA 24.2 Buddy Harrelson, NYM/PHI 23.5 Jay Bell, PIT/NYM 22.9 Jose Reyes, NYM 22.7 Larry Bowa, PHI/CHI/NYM 17.8 Rafael Furcal, ATL 17.4 Garry Templeton, STL

This just their NL East years? If so, beautiful research.

[Zvon]

Kong76 wrote: Saw that afterward and was also a little confused forgetting the years thing about east and no east and west in my rain delayed haste to vote and I know Banks played a lot less SS than 1B but he's like in the top ten SS in The Baseball Abstract and I was thinking and not thinking at same time. (how's that for a run on)

I actually thought Banks played more SS than 1st.
He did play in the days I was just starting to follow baseball religiously.
And I suppose anything not Mets was only in my peripheral vision.

These days, with the pace everything seems to move, everything is in my peripheral vision

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

I went with Ozzie and Reyes. Hanley Ramirez is off to a tremendous start, but he hasn't done it long enough (yet) so he finishes third on my ballot.

[ashie62]

I'm the Harrelson vote, Shawon Dunston has 2 more than Buddy?

[batmagadanleadoff]

metsmarathon wrote: top ten, in terms of nleasterly WAR, as per fangraphs 62.1 Ozzie Smith, STL 35.3 Jimmy Rollins, PHI 27.4 Gene Alley, PIT 25.9 Hanley Ramirez, FLA 24.2 Buddy Harrelson, NYM/PHI 23.5 Jay Bell, PIT/NYM 22.9 Jose Reyes, NYM 22.7 Larry Bowa, PHI/CHI/NYM 17.8 Rafael Furcal, ATL 17.4 Garry Templeton, STL

Gene Alley better than HanRam? This does not compute -- not by any measure. That has to be Alley's career, rather than his NL East years.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Rockin' Doc wrote: I went with Ozzie and Reyes. Hanley Ramirez is off to a tremendous start, but he hasn't done it long enough (yet) so he finishes third on my ballot.

How much longer than Hanram d'ya think Reyes was doing it?

[metsmarathon]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: metsmarathon wrote: top ten, in terms of nleasterly WAR, as per fangraphs 62.1 Ozzie Smith, STL 35.3 Jimmy Rollins, PHI 27.4 Gene Alley, PIT 25.9 Hanley Ramirez, FLA 24.2 Buddy Harrelson, NYM/PHI 23.5 Jay Bell, PIT/NYM 22.9 Jose Reyes, NYM 22.7 Larry Bowa, PHI/CHI/NYM 17.8 Rafael Furcal, ATL 17.4 Garry Templeton, STL Gene Alley better than HanRam? This does not compute -- not by any measure. That has to be Alley's career, rather than his NL East years.

gene alley played all 11 years with the pirates.

[batmagadanleadoff]

top ten, in terms of nleasterly WAR, as per fangraphs 62.1 Ozzie Smith, STL 35.3 Jimmy Rollins, PHI 27.4 Gene Alley, PIT 25.9 Hanley Ramirez, FLA 24.2 Buddy Harrelson, NYM/PHI 23.5 Jay Bell, PIT/NYM 22.9 Jose Reyes, NYM 22.7 Larry Bowa, PHI/CHI/NYM 17.8 Rafael Furcal, ATL 17.4 Garry Templeton, STL Gene Alley better than HanRam? This does not compute -- not by any measure. That has to be Alley's career, rather than his NL East years. gene alley played all 11 years with the pirates.

Yeah, but there was no NL East prior to the 1969 season. Alley's NL East WAR is 5.3.



http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1000160&position=SS

[Guest Edgy DC]

I'm withholding my vote in protest until the Mets are added to Garry Templeton's resume.

[metsmarathon]

ah. whoops. missed that minor detail.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Rockin' Doc wrote: I went with Ozzie and Reyes. Hanley Ramirez is off to a tremendous start, but he hasn't done it long enough (yet) so he finishes third on my ballot. How much longer than Hanram d'ya think Reyes was doing it?

Reyes has 2 more seasons at the major league level and has appeared in 190 more games than Hanley. Granted, the difference isn't huge, but they each have their own strengths. Besides, I reserve the right as a Mets fan to allow my personal biases and preferences to influence close calls.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I'm sitting the best-ever defensive shortstop.

HanRam and Reyes. On my dream team, everyone contributes offensively.

[Zvon]

I'm one of the Rollins votes.

Ya gotta pick Ozzie and Rollins MVP gives him the edge over Reyes.
It was very painful to give him my vote.

But if I'm anything, I'm honest.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I give no players no credit for end-of-year accolades decided by votes, especially ones that Wrightfully belong to others.

[G-Fafif]

Edgy DC wrote: I'm withholding my vote in protest until the Mets are added to Garry Templeton's resume.

You think it's an egregious oversight? Garry is so miffed that he ain't departin'. Hence, he'll be rejoining the Mets in Milwaukee Friday night.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Nice.

Actually, I went for Smith and Reyes. But I'm going to switch to Rollins, I think.

[soupcan]

I went with Bowa.

A generational thing I guess - he was just always the Phillie ss and always winning gold gloves.