The Mets and Meija

[Guest Edgy DC]

It's not clear that it's harmful either.

[Gwreck]

Edgy DC wrote: Of course they had a plan.

Aside from "start him in the majors as a reliever" I don't see any evidence of a "plan." I see them changing things as injuries dictate (ie. Niese down, but Igarashi is coming back).

[batmagadanleadoff]

The Mets haven't said this, but it's possible that the main reason for Mejia's demotion might be Ollie Perez's refusal to be sent down. As it is, the Mets hands are tied behind their back if they're forced to squander a roster spot on Ollie, who will now likely be limited to garbage time. There's no way that the team can also afford to carry Mejia, who's being coddled, presumably because of his youth and inexperience.

Just because they didn't say it, doesn't mean it ain't true.

[Guest Edgy DC]

A lot of things can be true, but Takahashi goes to the rotation and Perez goes to the back of the pen. Where's the roster pinch?

Where Perez is involved is his failure to succeed as a starter increases the demand for starters.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Gwreck wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Of course they had a plan. Aside from "start him in the majors as a reliever" I don't see any evidence of a "plan." I see them changing things as injuries dictate (ie. Niese down, but Igarashi is coming back).

Which is the way the world works. And while they said all along that they were planning to use him in the pen as a reliever to get his feet wet in the majors but not lock him in that role, it was skeptically received in this thread.

Plans are of little importance, but planning is essential � Winston Churchill

Plans are nothing; planning is everything. � Dwight D. Eisenhower

No battle plan survives contact with the enemy. � Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

[batmagadanleadoff]

Where's the roster pinch? I get the impression that Mejia's getting somewhat of the kid glove treatment usage-wise ... that Manuel is reluctant to use him in certain spots. Mejia's the least used of all pitchers that have been on the roster since opening day. If Mejia truly is getting the kid-glove treatment, the Mets can no longer afford to carry him and garbage time Ollie simultaneously.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Igarashi is soon to return although on performance alone I guess his spot would go to Acosta. Also, the lack of starting depth could also make them look more closely at Mejia as a potential answer.

I'm concerned that Takahashi will soon turn into a pumpkin.

[MFS62]

Edgy DC wrote: Plans are of little importance, but planning is essential � Winston Churchill Plans are nothing; planning is everything. � Dwight D. Eisenhower No battle plan survives contact with the enemy. � Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

Another one, taught in the US Army :

The 6 Ps - Prior planning prevents piss poor performance.

Later

[Guest Edgy DC]

Hisanori Takahashi has thrown 3.7 innings per week. If all Ollie can manage as his replacement is three, is it really going to tax Mejia so much if the rest of the pen has to pick up those other two outs?

I think it's clear that Mejia is going down because they may need him as a starter.

[Guest attgig]

Edgy DC wrote: I think it's clear that Mejia is going down because they may need him as a starter.

if that does happen....does that mean Ollie is permanently in the pen?

[Benjamin Grimm]

Well, no. Niese may be out for a while. And Oliver could possibly pitch his way into the rotation at John Maine's expense.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Joel Sherman-- who, to be fair, has been on this side of the debate since the first Mariano comparisons escaped Jerry Manuel's lips this spring-- continues taking the Mets to task about their usage/handling of young Jenrry.

Yes, we continue to monitor how the Mets use Jenrry Mejia and, yes, we continue to be astounded this is how the Mets are wasting the season of their best pitching prospect. In other words, this is not a new diatribe from this space, but this continues to be an issue that is stunning to me. So much is breaking positive for the Mets, but not having the youngest pitcher in the NL in the minors honing his craft to help at some future point just falls under the category of DUMB. His value to the 2010 Mets � as a pitcher or a trade chip � is being diminished. In his last six outings, since May 31, Mejia has appeared in six games. In one, the Mets trailed by two runs when he entered. In the other five, the Mets were ahead or behind by no fewer than five runs when he came in. For the season 12 of his 29 appearances have begun in that situation: at least a five-run lead one way or the other. He has not been asked to protect a tie and/or a lead of two or fewer runs since May 4 in Cincinnati. And maybe the inconsequential role is beginning to impact his stuff. Consider that he has faced 18 batters in June and has struck out none of them. Last night, asked to defend a five-run lead, Mejia walked the only two batters he faced. The Mets could not really have envisioned this as a development plan for Mejia: That by mid-June he would be a mop-up man with a far inferior role to Elmer Dessens. It is not too late. Get him to the minors. Get him starting. Build up his arm, his repertoire and his experience � and his value.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I just wish somebody would acknowledge there's at least some benefit to him pitching against and retiring major league batters, or reducing the workload on him.

I'd like to see him go down also, but "astounded? "Stunning?" "DUMB"?

It's a much more nuanced question.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Yabbut that benefit is at least partially mitigated by how low-leverage/infrequent the assignments are, right?

[Benjamin Grimm]

I saw DUMB out of the corner of my eye and realized that it's an anagram for UMDB.

I should try to leverage that somehow.

[Guest Edgy DC]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Yabbut that benefit is at least partially mitigated by how low-leverage/infrequent the assignments are, right?

Of course, it's mitigated, and it's worthwhile to investigate how much (perhaps a lot, perhaps competely), but it's never even acknowledged.

The "astounded" stuff is just so over the top. There is nothing remotely unprecedented about the Mets choice. The Yankees essentially made the same decision with Joba Chamberlain.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Chamberlain had two years on him, had (and still has) a more polished repertoire, and pretty much dominated through three levels of the minors during the one year he spent there. When he was brought up to fill a roster hole, he excelled... to a t-shirt-moving, fan-favorite-type extent. He forced them to keep him up.

Above high-A, all Mejia did was make 10 shaky starts (with the last couple somewhat less shaky), with the only plus in the results being a lot of Ks-- the command was all over the place (4.7 BB/9, 4 HBP). And he's posted an ERA in the mid-3s (with his FIP and xFIP numbers-- both 4.92-- hinting that THAT's due for a correction), with a 1-to-1 strikeout ratio since he's been up here... in very low-leverage spots. He hasn't forced them to do anything.

[smg58]

I don't see how this affects his value. Even if the Mets were to trade him -- which I doubt -- nobody who acquires him will have anything to gain by putting him in their major league rotation this year. And there's no reason at all to think his long-term value as a starter, for the Mets or anybody else, is hurt by him being in the pen this year.

As far as him helping the Mets as a starter this year, I never saw that as likely. And there's always a catch-22: if he were succeeding phenomenally as a reliever, you might say he could have been an effective starter. As it stands he's performing adequately as a major-league reliever, and probably wouldn't do as well in the rotation. It was a judgment call, Manuel decided there was a need for him in the pen, and here he is. I didn't agree with it, but I think jerking him around over the course of the season is more likely to have a long-term bad effect than keeping him where he is.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

smg58 wrote: I don't see how this affects his value.

Ever sell a used car? Ever sell a used car without washing it?

Leaving aside the arguments for sending him down, development-wise... A half-year of middling performance-- anyone looking beyond the ERA to any other pitching stat can see exactly HOW middling-- at the major-league level doesn't boost the asking price for him nearly as much as a half-year of starting dominance at Binghamton or Buffalo would have (even if neither is ultimately very meaningful as a predictor of future performance).

[Guest Edgy DC]

This isn't about his value. It's about his development.

I repeat that there is nothing remotely unprecedented going on. I know Chamberlain was different in many ways. The Yankees still made the same choice. I never said nor implied that Mejia has forced anything. And if Chamberlain's continued presence in the Yankee bullpen was forced because the Yankees had to give in to fan demand, shame on them, not the Mets.

[Centerfield]

It had nothing to do with fan demand. He forced their hand by being awesome out of the pen. By sending Chamberlain down, the major league team would have been weaker.

Here, Mejia does not make the major league team any better. There would be little lost to the big league club by sending him down to the minors.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well, I read the post as it having something to do with it.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Edgy DC wrote: Well, I read the post as it having something to do with it.

What CF said. I meant that he'd forced the MFYs' hand by being a supervaluable asset during the 2007 pennant race-- their bridge to Rivera, when middle relief had been a seasonlong issue. He was great-- dominant, in fact-- and filled a particular, pressing need on an otherwise rock-solid team. Mejia's doing neither right now.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I don't get it. You actually wrote the bit about being compelled in part because of the "tee-shirt selling, fan favorite extent."

This happens to me a lot. I respond to what is written and then it's discounted as if it never happened. I realize this isn't the strenth of your argument, but neither is it the strength of mine, and the bait-and-switch wastes time and makes me feel stupid.

Again, I would prefer he go down, too, but there is an argument for keeping him up. Without thinking, I came name a half dozen guys who came up as releivers, increased their workloads, and became effective starters. They will all be different in some way from Mejia. Most in some meaningful way. All I'm saying is it would help the arguments if they at least acknowledged some value to the big league experience he's getting.

[metirish]

That outing he had against the Yankees , was that his last time out with a game on the line type outing?

I would like he was down in the minors too but having pitched up here has had to have helped him , Manuel seems to have settled on his horses out of the pen , until one falters I guess Meija's usage won't change.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

"Tee shirt selling" was meant to underscore exactly how damn dominant he was-- he became a phenomenon in a month out of middle relief. Rereading it, it's startling how poor a way it was to express that point. Apologies.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I think I said pretty much all I want to say on this pages ago (I just can't bring myself to get passionate over "value" or arbitation clocks, I tend to agree with Tony Bernanzard's "talented guys will be what they will be" philosophy), but I think it's never been an issue of how dramatically he'd help but rather, is he good enough to do the job he's been asked to do. I mean, were Mejia really getting whacked around out there they would shirley pull the plug. As it is he's not necessarily helping all that much but the results haven't crossed into the range that would unacceptable for almost any 10th or 11th guy in the pen.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Who exits the staff if Maine gets activated, as expected, in the next week or so?

Assuming no injuries in the interim, I'm guessing it will be Igarashi, Valdes, or Mejia.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

If we can acquire someone like (Athens, GA native!) Jake Westbrook for a fair price, I'd like to see Maine in the bullpen and Mejia in the minors. He's always had durability issues, and I'm not sold on Takahashi as a starter, but having the two of them plus Felicano as a bridge to the 9th would be much more reassuring to me than what's being utilized now.

[Guest Edgy DC]

And you're sold on Westbrook?