Rank Your 2009 Mets

[Edgy MD]

There were a million of them. Feel free to rank them all. I just need your top 30.

In reviewing this list, I was surprised to find out the guy I had most forgotten about was Ken Takahashi.

[table:3sp3h44y][tr:3sp3h44y][td:3sp3h44y]Marlon Anderson
Carlos Beltran
Angel Berroa
Lance Broadway
Emil Brown
Luis Castillo
Robinson Cancel
Ramon Castro
Ryan Church
Alex Cora
Carlos Delgado
Elmer Dessens
Nick Evans
Pedro Feliciano[/td:3sp3h44y][td:3sp3h44y]Nelson Figueroa
Casey Fossum
Jeff Francoeur
Andy Green
Sean Green
Anderson Hernandez
Livan Hernandez
John Maine
Fernando Martinez
Ramon Martinez
Pat Misch
Daniel Murphy
Jonathan Niese[/td:3sp3h44y][td:3sp3h44y]Fernando Nieve
Darren O'Day
Angel Pagan
Bobby Parnell
Mike Pelfrey
Oliver Perez
J. J. Putz
Tim Redding
Jeremy Reed
Argenis Reyes
José Reyes
Francisco Rodriguez
Johan Santana[/td:3sp3h44y][td:3sp3h44y]Omir Santos
Brian Schneider
Gary Sheffield
Brian Stokes
Tobi Stoner
Jon Switzer
Cory Sullivan
Ken Takahashi
Fernando Tatis
Josh Thole
Wilson Valdez
Billy Wagner
David Wright[/td:3sp3h44y][/tr:3sp3h44y][/table:3sp3h44y]

[metirish]

Tobi Stoner would be my Takahashi , I have zero memory of him.

[G-Fafif]

Spiritually they are all tied for 53rd.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Switzer is my Stoner

[Benjamin Grimm]

There's a country in Europe that's full of guys like Switzer.

[Edgy MD]

Switzer, like Ken Tak, was auditioned for the hard-to-fill second-lefty-out-of-the-pen role.

[Guest 86-Dreamer]

1 Johan Santana
2 David Wright
3 Francisco Rodriguez
4 Daniel Murphy
5 Luis Castillo
6 Carlos Beltran
7 Pedro Feliciano
8 Mike Pelfrey
9 Gary Sheffield
10 Alex Cora
11 Jeff Francoeur
12 Angel Pagan
13 John Maine
14 Bobby Parnell
15 José Reyes
16 Brian Stokes
17 Fernando Nieve
18 Nelson Figueroa
19 Omir Santos
20 Carlos Delgado
21 Sean Green
22 Fernando Tatis
23 Brian Schneider
24 Livan Hernandez
25 Fernando Martinez
26 Josh Thole
27 Ryan Church
28 Jonathan Niese
29 Tim Redding
30 Jeremy Reed

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I remember Switzer, because he came in to face Hideki Matsui with two on during the "Dos Manos" game, and ended up giving up a bomb to RF. (His debut?)

Tobi Stoner? If I were a touch more paranoid, and I hadn't seen his name elsewhere, I'd be pretty sure you guys were f*cking with me.

OE: A quick look over to B-R.com confirms that Dos Manos WAS indeed Jon Switzer's Met debut.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I have some vague memory of Stoner "pulling a Milledge" -- i.e., not knowing his place, Rook -- but I've already forgotten it. Was there a specific episode or something? I know it was only 3 months ago, feels like 5 years.

[TransMonk]

30 David Wright
29 Johan Santana
28 Luis Castillo
27 Daniel Murphy
26 Pedro Feliciano
25 Francisco Rodriguez
24 Carlos Beltran
23 Brian Stokes
22 Angel Pagan
21 Jeff Fracoeur
20 Gary Sheffield
19 Fernando Tatis
18 Fernando Nieve
17 Nelson Figueroa
16 Patrick Misch
15 Sean Green
14 Mike Pelfrey
13 Omir Santos
12 John Maine
11 Ken Takahashi
10 Elmer Dessens
9 Alex Cora
8 Ryan Church
7 Carlos Delgado
6 Jose Reyes
5 Bobby Parnell
4 Tim Redding
3 Cory Sullivan
2 Livan Hernandez
1 Anderson Hernandez


Schneider, Perez and Putz will get nothing and like it.

edit - Parnell moved from 1 to 5

Edited December 18, 2009 by Guest

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I haven't even looked at the numbers but I can tell you right now that Parnell belongs higher than several guys on your list (Sullivan, Misch, Takahashi, Redding), simply as a function of being there all year.

[Edgy MD]

In recent weeks, Stoner has been buzzed about the blogosphere as a dark horse for the Mets rotation. Really good control, but like Pelfrey, having trouble finding an out pitch.

He's the second-ever Met born in Germany, joining Ron Gardenhire in the small fraternity of ÃœberMets.

[G-Fafif]

Edgy DC wrote: In recent weeks, Stoner has been buzzed

BoC sentence fragment nominee.

[TransMonk]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I haven't even looked at the numbers but I can tell you right now that Parnell belongs higher than several guys on your list (Sullivan, Misch, Takahashi, Redding), simply as a function of being there all year.

I disagree. 88.1 IP of a 78 ERA+ (Parnell) is worth less to me than:

Misch - 59 IP of a 100 ERA+
Redding - 120 IP of an 81 ERA+
Sullivan - 157 PA of a 92 OPS+

I could probably be talked into moving Takahashi down on my list as he had only 27.1 IP of a 139 ERA+, but Parnell was the crappiest pitcher that was there all year.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Right, but shouldn't he get some bonus for having been considered more valuable than some of those others who were added to later or sent down sooner or not as durable as he was?

Also -- and again, I haven't looked at the actual figures yet -- it wouldn't surprise me to find he did a lot of damage to his ERA as a worn-out garbage-time converted starter after many of his teammates, some ranked above him, proved they didn't have it physically. But I won't argue so hard till I do some rankings myself.

[Edgy MD]

Yup. Parnell was effective as a reliever, and ineffective as a starter pretty much after the Mets had thrown in the towel by shutting Santana down.

[TransMonk]

Sold. I've moved him up from 1 to 5.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Edgy DC wrote: In recent weeks, Stoner has been buzzed about the blogosphere as a dark horse for the Mets rotation.

Really? That's interesting...

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

30 Wright
29 Santana
28 Beltran
27 Pagan
26 Castillo
25 Pelfrey
24 Tatis
23 Delgado
22 Santos
21 Feliciano
20 L. Hernandez
19 J Reyes
18 Murphy
17 Figueroa
16 Maine
15 Niese
14 Castro
13 Church
12 Francoeur
11 Misch
10 Thole
9 Rodriguez
8 Sheffield
7 Sullivan
6 Nieve
5 Redding
4 Parnell
3 Takahashi
2 Valdez
1 Cora

OE: Forgot Misch. Goodbye, Mr. Schneider.

Edited December 18, 2009 by Guest

[Vic Sage]

30 Johan Santana
29 David Wright
28 Pedro Feliciano
27 Carlos Beltran
26 Luis Castillo
25 Francisco Rodriguez
24 Jeff Francoeur
23 Daniel Murphy
22 Brian Stokes
21 Angel Pagan
20 Gary Sheffield
19 Carlos Delgado
18 Fernando Tatis
17 Nelson Figueroa
16 Patrick Misch
15 Sean Green
14 Mike Pelfrey
13 Omir Santos
12 Fernando Nieve
11 John Maine
10 Bobby Parnell
9 Ken Takahashi
8 Elmer Dessens
7 Jose Reyes
6 Ryan Church
5 Alex Cora
4 Tim Redding
3 Cory Sullivan
2 Schneider
1 Oliver Perez

[seawolf17]

Fossum is the guy I don't remember getting big league time. Thought he was just a ST/AAA arm. Oh, and WTF? Elmer Dessens pitched in 28 games for us this year? I don't remember a single one.

Not totally thrilled with the order, but something like this:

Johan Santana
David Wright
Luis Castillo
Pedro Feliciano
Daniel Murphy
Francisco Rodriguez
Mike Pelfrey
Gary Sheffield
Carlos Beltran
Jeff Francoeur
Fernando Tatis
Angel Pagan
Brian Stokes
Livan Hernandez
Omir Santos
Bobby Parnell
Alex Cora
José Reyes
Sean Green
John Maine
Oliver Perez
Tim Redding
Jeremy Reed
Nelson Figueroa
Ryan Church
Ken Takahashi
Carlos Delgado
Fernando Nieve
Pat Misch
Elmer Dessens

[Frayed Knot]

As I suspected coming in to this, this season is going to produce a real wide variety of answers with certain players ranking near the top of some lists and sinking to the bottom of others. When we get a few more responses and some sort of consensus starts to emerge it’ll be a good spot for folks to make an argument for their choices - particularly in those spots where they vary from the pack.


I haven’t concocted the full list yet, but I’ll start by sorting through the hitters

* Wright - even in a down power year he was still out there everyday and put up .307/.390 BA/OBA with 52 XBHs and by far the most Runs Created on the team
* Beltran - despite missing a huge chunk of the season and only coming back when things were virtually over, he was the best (and only) all-around offensive threat while he was in
* Castillo - one of only three full-timers, his high OBA and middle IF glove partially makes up for the total lack of slugging
* Murphy - leading this team in HRs is like being the best ice hockey player in Peru, but playing almost everyday and knocking 53 XBHs helped to obscure the low OBA. He loses out to Castillo due to his early failure in LF
* Francoeur - despite the concerns about his future here it was a good half-season
* Pagan - next among the fill-ins. His ridiculous triples total actually shoved his slugging above everyone except Francoeur and his ‘D’ would have pushed him higher if not for the atrocious base-running
* Tatis - beats out Sheffield due to better durability and despite the seemingly endless string of rally-killing GiDPs
* Sheffield - best thing about him was the bang for the buck we got
* Santos - nice find and seemed to get a bunch of big hits along the way but mostly shined mainly as compared to the rest of the backstops
* Reyes - wins the SS competition despite only half the ABs of the backup
* Cora - this is what back-up short-stops look like folks
* Church - the slugging we saw for half of 2008 never came back
* Delgado - was going great for the first 100 ABs, then didn’t get any more
* Sullivan - Reed - Cory wins the competition of virtually identical slappy 5th OFers
* Thole - promising first 50 ABs
* Castro - that 8 of his 20 hits were for XBs is the only reason for him getting this high
* Schneider - just never hit
* A. Hernandez - looked better than the last time we saw him
* out of the running - F. Martinez, Valdez
Evans, R. Martinez, Berroa, Brown, Anderson

[Edgy MD]

Good job. Where does Reed fall? He's kind of stuck in the middle of Sullivan's name.

[Frayed Knot]

After Sullivan. I put them together like that because the two were virtual statistical twins vying for the same role; one could call them the Suck and Suck-A of backup OFers.
Sullivan's near-freakish capacity for triples and the fact that he was awarded the starting job for a while instead of Reed gave him the edge.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

There's no way that Reed makes my list. Marginal defensive value... and he made Schneider look good with the bat by comparison.

Sullivan's year looks more like the defensive replacement/occasional pinch-hitter you want.

[Benjamin Grimm]

The Schaefer voting results:

1 David Wright 91.72
2 Johan Santana 84.61
3 Daniel Murphy 71.46
4 Luis Castillo 70.96
5 Mike Pelfrey 58.78
6 Carlos Beltran 57.53
7 Angel Pagan 54.94
8 Fernando Tatis 53.44
9 Jeff Francoeur 50.81
10 Gary Sheffield 46.94
11 Livan Hernandez 46.08
12 Omir Santos 42.66
13 Francisco Rodriguez 38.58
14 Tim Redding 37.44
15 Bobby Parnell 35.11
16 Brian Stokes 34.50
17 Pedro Feliciano 32.62
18 Sean Green 32.04
19 Ryan Church 29.47
20 John Maine 29.16
21 Nelson Figueroa 27.53
22 Alex Cora 25.69
23 Pat Misch 23.59
24 Cory Sullivan 21.72
25 Brian Schneider 21.29
26 Carlos Delgado 20.71
27 José Reyes 17.29
28 Oliver Perez 16.58
29 Elmer Dessens 16.50
30 Fernando Nieve 16.27
31 Anderson Hernandez 15.92
32 Ken Takahashi 15.41
33 Jeremy Reed 14.75
34 J. J. Putz 12.51
35 Ramon Castro 10.37
36 Wilson Valdez 10.26
37 Fernando Martinez 9.97
38 Josh Thole 9.75
39 Jon Niese 7.44
40 Nick Evans 6.78
41 Tobi Stoner 3.06
42 Lance Broadway 3.02
43 Ramon Martinez 1.73
44 Angel Berroa 1.69
45 Billy Wagner 1.66
46 Casey Fossum 1.62
47 Darren O'Day 0.69
48 Jon Switzer 0.56
49 Andy Green 0.32
50 Argenis Reyes 0.16
51 Emil Brown 0.10

[metirish]

Going purely on memory and a whole lot of pain from that memory here you go


1 - Santana
2 - Wright
3 - Beltran
4 - Feliciano
5 - F Rodriguez
6 - Castillo
7 - Francoeur
8 - Murphy
9 - Sheffield
10 - Pagan
11 - Stokes
12 - Santos
13 - Figueroa
14 - Parnell
15 - Cora
16 - Nieve
17 - Livan Hernandez
18 - Maine
19 - Pelfrey
20 - Tatis
21 - delgado
22 - Thole
23 - Reyes
24 - Fernando Martinez
25 - Green
26 - Sullivan
27 - Takahashi
28 - Misch
29 - Niese
30 - Schneider



Had a real tough time ranking once I got past the first 6 or seven....

[ashie62]

Edgy DC wrote: Good job. Where does Reed fall? He's kind of stuck in the middle of Sullivan's name.

Hopefully into a ditch

[Frayed Knot]

Pitchers:

* Santana - Even with the injury-shortened year it’s no contest

All others tie for last -- but, since we have to place them in some kind of order ....

* Feliciano - Seems weird to put a specialist this high, but he had lower WHiP & ERA totals than just about everyone else and, unless someone else wants to correct me, I don’t remember him being too bad on the inherited runners situation
* Rodriguez - Yeah, I know, but at least he had half a good year. Same number of hits and HRs allowed as Feliciano and in fewer innings but double the number of walks and half again as many runs allowed
* Pelfrey - Had some good games here and there while leading the team in innings pitched
* Stokes - Geez, the walks allowed by this staff was frightening
* Redding - Better than Livan
* L. Hernandez - Not as good as Redding
* Figueroa - A little of this, a little of that
* Parnell - Was great for a while, then lost his control, then was horrid as a starter
* Misch - Some decent relief outings plus a fine start or two
* S. Green - Hit a few more batters why doncha? Good stuff but I wonder sometimes if he knows where it’s going
* Nieve - Looked good for a time and then (say it with me people) got injured
* Dessens - Actually did OK during the brief time he was out there
* Rounding out the rest: Takahashi - Niese - Putz - Perez
* Out of the running -- Broadway, Stoner, Fossum, Switzer, O’Day, Wagner

[Frayed Knot]

Combined list.
A few things were changed around from the above pre-lists. Main snag was that I omitted Maine earlier (now I 'Remembered the Maine'), otherwise I just swapped a few guys a step or two higher or lower.


30 - Wright
29 - Santana
28 - Beltran
27 - Castillo
26 - Murphy
25 - Feliciano
24 - Francoeur
23 - Rodriguez
22 - Pagan
21 - Pelfrey
20 - Tatis
19 - Sheffield
18 - Santos
17 - Stokes
16 - Reyes
15 - Redding
14 - L. Hernandez
13 - Maine
12 - Figueroa
11 - Cora
10 - Delgado
9 - Church
8 - Parnell
7 - Misch
6 - S. Green
5 - Schneider
4 - Nieve
3 - Dessens
2 - Thole
1 - Reed



As always, both list and creator are open to questions, suggestions, insults, IQ tests, etc.